RE: Megane 275 Trophy vs Leon Cupra 280
Discussion
Jigsjigz said:
Leon please... spend the other grand or more on a remap. done.
You could re-map the Renault too but you can't get the chassis from Superchips I love the way Renaultsport just don't bother trying to match power outputs with their rivals, just make it handle better.
The SEAT is already more powerful, adding more will just make it struggle more to put it down on the road. Meanwhile that pesky Megane will be disappearing down the (twisty) road at a rate of knots
Think both of these brands have done really well to make cars like these and they will be excellent to drive. My only concerns for Renaults and seats being priced in this category isn't so much the price in the 1st place as it costs a lot to build these things but more the depreciation. The focus Rs has held its money pretty well due to its heavy following etc. but not so sure that seat and Renault are quite there yet with the brand image/ build quality for them to hold there money to any sensible level and that quite a factor when spending £30k on a hot hatch as its unlikely its going to be Joe millionaire going to buy these
Hats off to Renault though its incredibly impressive that they are up there with the really big boys on the lap times
Hats off to Renault though its incredibly impressive that they are up there with the really big boys on the lap times
Dblue said:
You could re-map the Renault too but you can't get the chassis from Superchips
I love the way Renaultsport just don't bother trying to match power outputs with their rivals, just make it handle better.
The SEAT is already more powerful, adding more will just make it struggle more to put it down on the road. Meanwhile that pesky Megane will be disappearing down the (twisty) road at a rate of knots
Very good point. Renault have gone a little bit Bmw on this way as BMW don't try to match competitors with their m cars they simply make the cars more fun to drive by making the handling better and the cars lighter, unlike Mercedes who are still stuck in the old "more power" waysI love the way Renaultsport just don't bother trying to match power outputs with their rivals, just make it handle better.
The SEAT is already more powerful, adding more will just make it struggle more to put it down on the road. Meanwhile that pesky Megane will be disappearing down the (twisty) road at a rate of knots
Dblue said:
If you want the best drivers car in this class there is a clear and obvious choice to make. Considerations about day to day practicality, equipment levels and the quality of the plastics should surely, for the enthusiasts among us, come lower than its ability to put a huge grin on your face as you take apart your favourite back road on a sunday morning.
Absolutely agreed! Dan
EricE said:
You could get a LSD fitted in your M135i for that! 
1 "PH Point" to you, Sir.TBH though an M135i + LSD is what I would do if the question was "Which c£30k hatch?" Out of these two? The Megane. - VAG boxes were tedious before they started releasing a new version of the same thing seemingly every week.
Clivey said:
EricE said:
You could get a LSD fitted in your M135i for that!
1 "PH Point" to you, Sir.TBH though an M135i + LSD is what I would do if the question was "Which c£30k hatch?" Out of these two? The Megane. - VAG boxes were tedious before they started releasing a new version of the same thing seemingly every week.
In a back to back comparison its just not as well sorted as a few other cars in this class. Control weights, balance, feel all lacking.
Dblue said:
I like the M135i and its definitely a PH Hero car but I've not seen a single test in the last year that puts it ahead against its best competition.
In a back to back comparison its just not as well sorted as a few other cars in this class. Control weights, balance, feel all lacking.
I think most of the criticism is levelled at / due to the suspension, which (just as with the 130i before it) can be sorted. - I would still like to know the exact differences between it and the M235i in terms of the suspension setup. It's hardly awful as it is though, is it?In a back to back comparison its just not as well sorted as a few other cars in this class. Control weights, balance, feel all lacking.
- Day-to-day, where you can't regularly use the performance of any of these cars for more than a few brief seconds, I'm sure I'd get more enjoyment from the straight six than the powerplants of the others in the class (come on Honda!)...and I personally prefer RWD anyway.
Clivey said:
Dblue said:
I like the M135i and its definitely a PH Hero car but I've not seen a single test in the last year that puts it ahead against its best competition.
In a back to back comparison its just not as well sorted as a few other cars in this class. Control weights, balance, feel all lacking.
I think most of the criticism is levelled at / due to the suspension, which (just as with the 130i before it) can be sorted. - I would still like to know the exact differences between it and the M235i in terms of the suspension setup. It's hardly awful as it is though, is it?In a back to back comparison its just not as well sorted as a few other cars in this class. Control weights, balance, feel all lacking.
- Day-to-day, where you can't regularly use the performance of any of these cars for more than a few brief seconds, I'm sure I'd get more enjoyment from the straight six than the powerplants of the others in the class (come on Honda!)...and I personally prefer RWD anyway.
The engine is definitely the big USP of the Beemers but its the corners where the fun is at not the drag race away from the line.
Dblue said:
The 235 is getting more lukewarm reviews if anything as far as I've seen. Steering seems to be the big problem.
Hmmm...the reviews I've seen have been largely positive (CH seems to like his long term test car). Still...electric steering; one reason I'm still not 100% sure on what I'll replace my current 3-Series with... 
Dblue said:
The engine is definitely the big USP of the Beemers but its the corners where the fun is at not the drag race away from the line.
Again, that depends on the roads you use daily (where the car spends 90+% of it's time). - Someone on here shared a sentiment that I tend to agree with; something to the effect of on the public road, the engine is more important (in terms of enjoyment) than the chassis because most of the time, you can't drive fast enough to begin to appreciate the finer points; on the track, the chassis is more important than the engine because you can.Still, when you get the chance to play with the car, there's just something to be said for RWD...especially with enough power to "steer from the rear".
Dan Trent said:
Before we get into the '£30K for a Megane?!!!!' or 'You could have an M135 for that...'
I'd have the Renault long before the M135i and it's s
te damping. But I'd wait for the Civic before buying either. I have a feeling that will be the car to upset Renaultsport's dominance.Hub said:
They are consistently praised in the motoring press, but do Renault shift many of the Megane these days? Don't think I've seen a facelift one on the road.
They don't sell huge numbers , no, but quite a few. Not the critical mass of business driven, manufacturer backed finance deals around such as those the 135 andGolf R have benefited from.
Its also definitely more hardcore than the BMW and the Golf , and only available in 3 door form.
But selling huge numbers is no indicator of quality, in cars or music or TV ratings
Hmmm, I would regard myself as one of those enthusiasts, but I didn't choose the Renault for two reasons, even though I'm sure it is a great drive. 1) I have two children who need a reasonable amount of room in the back and a decent boot & 2) my last Renault ownership experience (car and dealer) was so horrendous it put me off ever having another one. My 5 door Cupra 280 arrived 2 weeks ago and has put quite a few grins on my face too
Dan
Dan Trent said:
Dblue said:
If you want the best drivers car in this class there is a clear and obvious choice to make. Considerations about day to day practicality, equipment levels and the quality of the plastics should surely, for the enthusiasts among us, come lower than its ability to put a huge grin on your face as you take apart your favourite back road on a sunday morning.
Absolutely agreed! Dan
dorsetknob said:
Hmmm, I would regard myself as one of those enthusiasts, but I didn't choose the Renault for two reasons, even though I'm sure it is a great drive. 1) I have two children who need a reasonable amount of room in the back and a decent boot & 2) my last Renault ownership experience (car and dealer) was so horrendous it put me off ever having another one. My 5 door Cupra 280 arrived 2 weeks ago and has put quite a few grins on my face too
Dan
Which is all about choosing the right compromise for your own situation. I get that, everybody has different priorities and makes decisions based on them.Dan Trent said:
Dblue said:
If you want the best drivers car in this class there is a clear and obvious choice to make. Considerations about day to day practicality, equipment levels and the quality of the plastics should surely, for the enthusiasts among us, come lower than its ability to put a huge grin on your face as you take apart your favourite back road on a sunday morning.
Absolutely agreed! Dan
Its similar to the example of an M3 and a GT3. The GT3 has 2 seats, a very firm ride, poor ground clearance and heavy controls. An M3 is much more practical as a daily proposition but still offers similar performance, a great engine and a fine chassis. But not many petrolheads would consider it superior to the GT3 just because it was more practical.
I honestly think the comparison between the Megane and its rivals has parallels to that. The Renault is not quite as stellar as a drivers car as the Porsche but its the closest thing to it you can buy at these price levels.
PunterCam said:
Personally I think the current "best" level is not expensive enough though (I mean, I like the price, but the format is hardly being maxed here). A hatchback is a wonderfully practical shape of car. Why isn't there a carbon tubbed, exotic (or at least highly tuned) engined, precision machined, 1100kg, ultra desirable hatch on the market? £50k, or £60k. But it's the absolute best hatchback, unequivocally, that you can buy. Something that actually felt special.
because it absolutely goes against the raison d'etre of the hatchback. if you wanted to make a car go fast, why not make it tiny, low, slippy, and lightweight? its like lawnmower racing, the renault espace f1 - its a novelty series and vehicle because it can be done, not because it should be done.nevertheless, if you wanted an exotic car in a "hatchback shape", they do exist: see ferrari ff
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