RE: Speed Matters? PH Blog

[DiscoColin]

Wonderful thing that it is, to me the Bugatti has always been more a piece of jewellery than a car. It has never actually mattered to me how fast it is and I just don't see anything changing that with a newer and faster replacement. Perhaps more controversially : I actually feel the same way about Paganis.

As for the Caparo - it is a benchmark for a definition of pointless. Why would anyone interested in going that fast on track not buy a racing car? It is not like you would use it on the road any more than one of those road legal Radicals... To someone who could afford one, the ability to go and get off-circuit fuel on a track day isn't exactly going to make or break the deal is it?

[Skater12]

The fasted cars on the planet, The Veyron, Venom GT and so on have been in in different stages of development for many years.
In the past decade we've seen a steady increase in the top line figure for "fasted production road car".
With Bugatti now saying a new car is in development and Hennessey pushing the absolute limits of their comparatively limited budget all the way up to 270mph in what is basically a long wheelbase Exige on ALL the steroids, are we on the brink of seeing the 300mph barrier breached?

Think about it logically. Bugatti have one of the biggest budgets, most comprehensive design, development and engineering infrastructure in the motoring world behind them.
Why would they bring a new model to market if it was only marginally faster than its predecessor?

Now before anyone tells me in a nasal voice "yes but each time you increase speed the power require goes up exponentially" you're forgetting that technology has come on a LONG way since 2005 when the Veyron first turned a wheel on public roads.
Add to that the fact it was using technology that was current when first being developed, so go back another couple of years at least.
Basically the Veyron used the best technology available at the time, a decade ago!!

I fully expect the next "fastest car" wont be the new Bugatti, but a car like the Venom, from a small company with a smaller budget and bigger balls.
Bugatti will then come along shortly after and say "hold my beer...... now watch this!"

300mph in the hands of teenage rap stars, coming to a screen near you soon.

[Art0ir]

Marwood79 said:

The Pits said:

The zenith of purely mechanical engineering has already come and gone

I agree with you, but what was it though? Zonda R?

Have we forgotten Mr Von Koenigsegg?

[bigbadbikercats]

You can't measure fun, and if you could it certainly wouldn't be with a stopwatch. Sadly this makes it much harder to market than 0-60 tomes, standing quarter times, VMax, and ring lap times.

Even the likes of Caterham and Ariel seem to get caught up with this sometimes looking at the crazier ends of the ranges...

[PunterCam]

Art0ir said:

Marwood79 said:

The Pits said:

The zenith of purely mechanical engineering has already come and gone

I agree with you, but what was it though? Zonda R?

Have we forgotten Mr Von Koenigsegg?

Never in the same league! Wonderful things I'm sure, but I never got the impression they were "mechanical".

I'd say Ferrari F50 was the last, great, mechanical supercar. Or if you have to be modern, perhaps the gt3 rs 4.0l.

[donteatpeople]

For me the Veyron can be analogised to the Rosetta probe. As an exercise in engineering and pushing boundaries they’re both fantastic. I’m pleased they exist, I admire the teams involved in the projects and am impressed by their achievements. I also have no desire to have either in my garage.

[exceed]

I agree to a certain extent, although I think it's the platforms I'm not interested in.

Bugatti should shoot for the Veryon's top speed/performance in a saloon body (the Galabier or whatever it was called). Not rehash yester-years Veryon.

Caparo should actually revisit the T1 and make it more usable as a road going car. There's no reason with today's technology that it can't be easy to control (active aero, active suspension, etc.).

I must say the way the industry is moving at the moment is incredibly positive, think we need to start going back to basics and looking at how we can keep pushing the envelope maybe looking seriously at tyre technology and if we can change to something a lot more durable/high performance.

[suffolk009]

I'm reminded of the episode of Top Gear where they had to drive some 200mph plus cars as fast as they could.

Pointless, and not terribly entertaining.

[robinessex]

IF, and it's a big IF, there were plenty of roads around in various countries, where, IF you had the ability, and IF the conditions were ok, you could max out the Bug, I'd say a case for it could be made. Because you COULD max it. Maybe. But because you can't, lets can it. It's pointless. And IF you fancy a Caparo thing, instead of spending a fortune on one, just buy a cheap single seater race car, and convert it for the road. Probably worth it for the reactions of the public as much as for the hell of it !!!!

Edited by robinessex on Friday 8th August 14:41

[xxxscimitarxxx]

I disagree with the somewhat typical spoiled harris view that a 300mph albeit specialist production road car doesn't light a fuse.....it needs to be done to prove it can be done

[E65Ross]

chelme said:

E65Ross said:

Marwood79 said:

The Pits said:

The zenith of purely mechanical engineering has already come and gone

I agree with you, but what was it though? Zonda R?

I'm not so sure, why are the more modern examples less successful/less good from a mechanical point of view?

Sure, they have a lot of electrickery to help work alongside the mechanicals, but the mechanicals in cars like the P1 etc etc are every bit as good (and the rest) of the older cars.

Plus, a Zonda R was never a road car.

Have to agree with The Pits. It came in the sixties and and arguably went in this decade too with the 250 GTO, hence the asking price, but then it really depends on what you think is of more value. You could equally point to later cars, perhaps the Lancia Delta EVO with its trick 4WD mechanism (although tbh Im not sure if and to what degree electronics played a part) and twin charged engines in the S4. The nearer to where we are, the more the ingress of electronic management systems...

Well how far do you draw the line? People above mentioned the McLaren F1 but that uses plenty of Electrics for fuelling,, variable valve timing etc etc.

[Wkotuning]

Totally agree on the Caparo. The thought was there, but the delivery defiantly wasn't.

The Veyron is an astounding piece of engineering strength and as with all evolutionary cars its progressed with its latest incarnation. I for one would love to see it hit 300.

The Hennessy, whilst ultimately an incredibly desirable animal, has always seemed to lack the production value/feel/perception of the Veyron.

Having said all that, I yearn to hear more about the hellcat what an absolute doomsday device, and unlike the others, maybe one day obtainable .

[pumpkin]

I believe that British Comumbia has just increased the speed limit on its fastest roads from 100 kph to 110 kph, nearly 70 mph....... Expect to see a jump in the purchases of Bugattis

[chandrew]

If people with the means wanted a car like the Bugatti VW wouldn't have needed to produce a never ending number of silly limited editions of an already limited edition car. How quickly did Ferrari manage to sell-out the LaFerrari?

[confucuis]

Pistonheads "Speed Matters Sometimes"

[neil1jnr]

I think if I won the Euro millions I'd have one of these new Veyrons, I honestly can't imagine how that acceleration would feel, I guess the launch control would never get old either.

The Veyron is not exactly what I'd look for in a supercar but if you can contemplate buying one then you can probably afford one of each hyper cars available.

It is just brilliant engineering, I love it.

[oldtimer2]

They are doing it because it is part of a VAG Group that wants to be No 1, because they think they can, and because maybe they will learn something new in the money-no-object engineering process that will trickle down to the rest of the VAG empire in due course. As such it is an interesting and potentially useful engineering endeavour. I am not convinced it will actually produce a car that is more interesting or fun to drive than its lesser brethren.

For example this week Jaguar are running one of their F Type driving experiences at Millbrook Proving Ground so I went along to try out various versions. The programme included the 2 mile long high speed bowl (boring at high speed), acceleration at full throttle to 130 mph and braking on the long straight (boring), high performance cornering using torque vectoring by braking (a convincing demonstration of the system) and several laps in three different cars (including the new coupe R) on the so-called Alpine route with a max speed of 55 mph (great fun). For me, impressive though the R is, I had just as much fun driving the Alpine route in the V6 as in the V8 R. If Jaguar ever decide to put their new 2 litre 4 cylinder in the F Type I am sure I would find that as much fun too.

[FER4L]

I've no ambition to own either but I love that people continue to push the boundaries, and there's invariably knock-on benefit in terms of R&D etc that filters into less extreme models - I say applaud, salute, and simply choose not to buy (luckily, a choice I don't have to worry about in this instance!

[R I C H]

pumpkin said:

I believe that British Columbia has just increased the speed limit on its fastest roads from 100 kph to 110 kph, nearly 70 mph....... Expect to see a jump in the purchases of Bugattis

It's 120kph, up from 110. When travelling through rural BC, several hours from the nearest town, do you think people actually adhere to the limit?

[robinessex]

As it's been virtually decided that both theses cars are pointless, and the object of being a PH'er is FUN, how about this then:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apd1KBjLV8k