Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[bolidemichael]

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

[flemke]

Swampy1982 said:

S1KRR said:

Ron's house was approved

https://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/home/121390/...

Not sure how this relates to his current home renovations

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/ron-dennis-wins-planni...


Regarding his professional future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh2iQSU9DJE

(1h46.04)

He talks about something technologically driven solution for back pain

Edited by S1KRR on Tuesday 3rd December 22:27

Thank you, appreciate it.

I wonder if he has become "he who shan't be named" around the corridors of McLaren, or if he still is talked about (in a fond or otherwise) by the people who knew him.

He is integral to the company's history. In my experience, no one is reticent to bring up his name when it is relevant to do so. When Ron was there, as far as I knew everyone respected him although not everyone necessarily felt warm towards him. He was a demanding boss, but at the same time a very loyal one who applied to himself the same standards that he applied to others. His less attractive qualities, such as the arrogance and social awkwardness, were thought of as idiosyncrasies rather than serious flaws. There was certainly a lot of confidence in his getting done what he said he would do, and that had (AFAIK) a powerful motivating effect on the team. The personal issues that resulted in his leaving the company were between him and only a couple of the shareholders, but unfortunately the latter had ultimate control.
I do not know enough about his split with Martin Whitmarsh to be able to opine on whether either man was in the wrong. Martin was (pretty much) universally liked, but as his influence within the company grew in parallel with the decline in the fortunes of the racing team, it may have been inevitable that Ron would intercede in the belief that only he could get it sorted.

[Swampy1982]

flemke said:

He is integral to the company's history. In my experience, no one is reticent to bring up his name when it is relevant to do so. When Ron was there, as far as I knew everyone respected him although not everyone necessarily felt warm towards him. He was a demanding boss, but at the same time a very loyal one who applied to himself the same standards that he applied to others. His less attractive qualities, such as the arrogance and social awkwardness, were thought of as idiosyncrasies rather than serious flaws. There was certainly a lot of confidence in his getting done what he said he would do, and that had (AFAIK) a powerful motivating effect on the team. The personal issues that resulted in his leaving the company were between him and only a couple of the shareholders, but unfortunately the latter had ultimate control.
I do not know enough about his split with Martin Whitmarsh to be able to opine on whether either man was in the wrong. Martin was (pretty much) universally liked, but as his influence within the company grew in parallel with the decline in the fortunes of the racing team, it may have been inevitable that Ron would intercede in the belief that only he could get it sorted.

Good to know, thank you for sharing. I would hate to hear that his legacy had been forgotten.

[cc8s]

It does seem that there has been a turnover of some of the key team. The ones I can think of are:

Frank Stephenson (May 2017)
Ron Dennis (June 2017)
Matt Bishop (July 2017)
Henry W-S (July 2017)
Chris Goodwin (December 2017)
Mansour Ojjeh (July 2018)
James Banks (January 2019)

It seems to be a different team than it was two or three years ago.

[flemke]

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

[flemke]

cc8s said:

It does seem that there has been a turnover of some of the key team. The ones I can think of are:

Frank Stephenson (May 2017)
Ron Dennis (June 2017)
Matt Bishop (July 2017)
Henry W-S (July 2017)
Chris Goodwin (December 2017)
Mansour Ojjeh (July 2018)
James Banks (January 2019)

It seems to be a different team than it was two or three years ago.

Some of the persons listed are not really public figures so I shan't comment on them, but, of the public figures:
The one who clearly left against his will was Ron. He would have loved to stay but it wasn't his choice.
I understand that FS had a lot less to do with designing the cars than he was credited with doing.
MO resigned as a Director (IIRC), but his and his family's shareholding and power have not changed.
CG's departure surprised me, although he was one of "Ron's guys", so perhaps I should not have been surprised. The opportunity to work with Newey must have been very tempting.

[marine boy]

the interesting story is between Gordon and Ron and why Gordon left McLaren

[flemke]

marine boy said:

the interesting story is between Gordon and Ron and why Gordon left McLaren

I'm not sure what you may know or have heard. It would be inappropriate for me to relate my understanding of the matter, but I think it would be safe to say that they disagreed on how a contract should have been interpreted. Both highly talented, self-confident and motivated men.

[bolidemichael]

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

I'm not certain that you interpret that to be what I said, or that I have interpreted what you have said incorrectly, but hey, when life gives you ice cream

[flemke]

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

I'm not certain that you interpret that to be what I said, or that I have interpreted what you have said incorrectly, but hey, when life gives you ice cream

I thought that I was agreeing with what you said, but in doing so was alluding to what another poster said.

[bolidemichael]

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

I'm not certain that you interpret that to be what I said, or that I have interpreted what you have said incorrectly, but hey, when life gives you ice cream

I thought that I was agreeing with what you said, but in doing so was alluding to what another poster said.

Ah yes, he of confirmation bias

[flemke]

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

I'm not certain that you interpret that to be what I said, or that I have interpreted what you have said incorrectly, but hey, when life gives you ice cream

I thought that I was agreeing with what you said, but in doing so was alluding to what another poster said.

Ah yes, he of confirmation bias

This has almost always been a friendly, good-natured thread, and I very much hope that it remains so.

[650spider]

flemke said:

This has almost always been a friendly, good-natured thread, and I very much hope that it remains so.

[bolidemichael]

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

flemke said:

bolidemichael said:

Perhaps Flemke's view comes down to cynicism of the flipper vs circumstance of the genuine buyer

I can't say that I agree with the view that, once you have bought a car, if it turns out to be impossible for you to drive it, nonetheless you should keep it, but I guess that's why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

I'm not certain that you interpret that to be what I said, or that I have interpreted what you have said incorrectly, but hey, when life gives you ice cream

I thought that I was agreeing with what you said, but in doing so was alluding to what another poster said.

Ah yes, he of confirmation bias

This has almost always been a friendly, good-natured thread, and I very much hope that it remains so.

I'm tempted to view it differently. You appear to be literate and nuanced in your posts - the chap was probably indulging in the transparent manner of your communication, perhaps briefly forgetting that you hadn't elaborated on all of the details for your reason to sell.

From an impartial view, I quite enjoy the 'Where's Wally?' or, 'Where's Waldo?' in this instance, nature of this thread!

[flemke]

bolidemichael said:

I'm tempted to view it differently. You appear to be literate and nuanced in your posts - the chap was probably indulging in the transparent manner of your communication, perhaps briefly forgetting that you hadn't elaborated on all of the details for your reason to sell.

From an impartial view, I quite enjoy the 'Where's Wally?' or, 'Where's Waldo?' in this instance, nature of this thread!

[cc8s]

Fantastic car and reviewer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQPIBFz1ZJo

[vincegail]

Cool numberplate too

F1-LCC
F1 - Light Car Company

[flemke]

cc8s said:

Fantastic car and reviewer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQPIBFz1ZJo

Ah, yes - one of my all-time favourite cars.
I think I can honestly say that I had something to do with that car's owner, who is a friend of mine, getting his, after he tried mine and liked it. Some of the mods Henry mentioned were things I had asked Chris to do when I ordered mine, such as the relocation (and enlargement) of the fuel tank. On mine, unlike on the car in the video, we reversed the shift pattern to make it more intuitive: pull back to shift up.
Regarding the brakes, however, there really is no reason at all to upgrade them beyond standard. Into most bends all you need to do is to lift and the grip and lack of mass in relation to the frontal area/drag mean that the car will usually slow itself enough that braking is completely unnecessary.
As to whether it is too light, I must admit that in a strong crosswind the car can get tricky. Also, as Henry alluded, there is an issue with whether the car is heavy enough for street-legal tyres to key into the asphalt. There is a road-legal rally tyre that we put on mine, softer than pretty much anything designed specifically for a road car, and they work fine.
I do wish that the engine had more torque. Standing starts up a hill are a killer (at least for anyone who, like me, is loath to slip a clutch). As I think I have related here before, a number of years ago Chris, Gordon and I agreed to do a Rocket II, edition of only two, with the main difference being a modern, higher-torque engine and possibly direct drive. After we got started, however, each of us realised that, whilst it was a great idea, we probably should be doing other things and so we dropped it.

Mention was made of the lovely logo. I want to point out that it was designed by the brilliant Rick Ward, whose CV includes Beatles album covers and other very clever things. As I did relate here before, I spent quite a bit of time trying to get that logo used in a set of special key fobs. We got most of the way there, but the supplier was a bit slow on its feet (in fairness, by their standards it would have been a small job), then I got submerged in some very demanding personal stuff, and the mock-up is still sitting in my desk somewhere.

[Sway]

I adore the Rocket, was very lucky a few years ago when a PHer drove his a couple of hundred miles in stty drizzle to one of the Goodwood Breakfast Clubs and allowed me to pore over it for an hour.

Just lovely detailing everywhere. So pared back and minimal, yet such obvious quality.

[epom]

Henry is my favorite writer. His voice somehow sounds like how he writes.