Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Soov535]

SydneyBridge said:

One of his brother's has recently been sold to a UK buyer

https://www.lovecars.com/news/2016/07/30/mclaren-f...

I hope it is Evans - he'll use it. If so then nice one Chris.

[Iva Barchetta]

SydneyBridge said:

One of his brother's has recently been sold to a UK buyer

https://www.lovecars.com/news/2016/07/30/mclaren-f...

Chris Evans it suggests at the bottom of the article.

Those black windows will need to go.

[Soov535]

Iva Barchetta said:

SydneyBridge said:

One of his brother's has recently been sold to a UK buyer

https://www.lovecars.com/news/2016/07/30/mclaren-f...

Chris Evans it suggests at the bottom of the article.

Those black windows will need to go.

I expect after Evans fell in love with the car on his only series of Top Great he simply had to have one.

Fair play to him.

[douglas111]

There is a lovely looking black one in this month's copy of Evo magazine. Could it be the same one?

EDIT: Think I've answered my own question since the one in the magazine has a clear windscreen, that is, unless it was changed after the photos in the previous link:

Close up: http://www.magzter.com/preview/497/188959/

Edited by douglas111 on Thursday 27th October 16:52

[douglas111]

hurstg01 said:

As for 'unseen' F1's, off the top of my head a small number of the Brunei F1's come to mind (Chassis #004, pictures of one of his 2 Black LM's and an Orange LM as well as his black GT). There may be a picture or 2 that could be those in question, but we have been unable to get the verification needed for full confirmation and aren't for general viewing by request of the photographer(s).

Thanks Greg!

[hurstg01]

Iva Barchetta said:

SydneyBridge said:

One of his brother's has recently been sold to a UK buyer

https://www.lovecars.com/news/2016/07/30/mclaren-f...

Chris Evans it suggests at the bottom of the article.

Those black windows will need to go.

Having seen that the day after it arrived in the UK, still with the 'Brunei look' about it, detritus et al, I'm pleased it went to MSO for a spruce up to get it looking like it does now.

It was a privilege to see it in its raw state, but it's certainly better seeing it now as it should be .

FYI It's the 2nd car to leave Brunei, following chassis #014 that emerged from there still in its yellow colouring but has since been made to look, some say, arguably one of the finest looking F1's out there in its white exterior, black wheels and HDF kit.

[flemke]

F1GTRUeno said:

People like attention. Creating an alleged update package statement for a McLaren F1 is guaranteed to be shared by the mindless masses that inhabit car forums and websites. They'll get a kick out of it being shared so many times.

I guess so.
At times like this, I'm glad I'm old.

[flemke]

Olivera said:

flemke said:

...
Although much of that alleged spec sheet was copied and pasted from that for the original car, to compose other parts of it someone took a lot of time and trouble. I can't explain why; there seem to be a lot of odd people out there.

Similarly someone has gone to great lengths to plaster a 7:11 Nurburgring full lap time all over the internet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburg...

"7:11 McLaren F1 Promotional XP5 prototype Mika Häkkinen November 1996"

Are you aware of this lap time? I can't find a shred of reliable evidence to substantiate it.

Extremely unlikely. The car has little downforce, which you need at the 'Ring. Back then the only tyres they had were the original Goodyears, which were crap. Mika was never a 'Ringmeister, so there is another probably 15 seconds on a lap-time.
In '91, John Neilson did 7:46 in an XJ220. Although the F1 is incomparably the better car, there is no way that Mika would have been 34 seconds faster.

[flemke]

anniesdad said:

Thanks for the answer, I'll have the magazine with the article in somewhere in the loft.

As for safely driving at 20mph on the autobahn... I can only imagine what the authorities would have made of that...

I may well be able to guess the answer to this but did you try driving the P1 at speed in Race Mode? If so, is there much noticeable difference between being in/out of Race Mode? Also the 918, have you driven one and if so what did you think? I must say out of all of the hypercars it is the one I think I would have as it appears more driveable more of the time IMHO.

Re Autobahn, through some map reading and a bit of luck I found a stretch that, for whatever reason, went to nowhere. I looked like it this end section had been constructed in the expectation that it would be connected to another major road yet to be built. Actually our driving slowly along it was completely safe, although I was amazed that the evo guys had come to Germany presuming that they could just rock up to some quiet piece of Autobahn and do their photography thing.

ETA: No, I have not driven my own car in Race Mode, although I did drive their demo in Race Mode. There is a meaningful difference in Race Mode, but you need to be going quickly to bring it into play.

Yes, have driven the 918. I like it a lot, maybe more than the P1, although I have to say that the P1 has been growing on me. The 918 feels more solidly built, although IINM Porsche have had three recalls on the car, whereas McLaren have had none, just a software upgrade that gets done FOC at the first normal service. The thing about the 918 is that it has a wonderful engine, and engine note, and a lovely cabin.

Edited by flemke on Thursday 27th October 17:09

[flemke]

cc8s said:

Have you had a chance to form any opinions on the HS? Does the aero make much difference to the experience?

It is interesting that, due to the variation in specifications between LTs, your comparison between your LT and HS might be quite stark. The roof scoop and louvres of some LTs would make them a much closer proposition, what with the trick aero and change in cabin noises.

A mate's roof-scooped 675LT beside the MSO demo car (PP19); any excuse to post awesome McLarens!


On another note, as I can't remember if we have covered it: does the 911R interest you at all?

Just driven the HS a bit, not enough information for an opinion.

Yes, 911R interests me a lot, but no way am I paying 3x RRP for one when in a couple of years manual gearboxes will be available on more models.
The way that Porsche handled that situation, having a full year in which to gauge reaction to the car amongst their little in-crowd of dealers taking backhanders, flippers, and ass-kissers, and then deliberately producing far fewer than the genuine demand, was pretty disgraceful - not to mention the deal that only US buyers of 918s got, granting them lifetime first dibs on all Porsche limited edition models.

Regardless of that, ss I was contemplating the 991R, I realised that I have a 997 GT3 with a Manthey 4.4L motor, Manthey suspension, full carbon doors and roof, etc. Richard Meaden drove it a few years ago and said it was the best Porsche he had ever driven. Relative to that car, I don't know how a 911R would be an improvement.

[flemke]

Storer said:

The issue of 'bloating' of cars has crept up on us.

My first Mk1 1600 Golf GTi was and 850kg feather weight. Todays GTi is about 1400kgs so there is no wonder it needs far more grunt.

With modern materials like carbon fibre and aluminium alloys we should be able to build lighter cars than those of the 1970's/80's. The trouble is we want quiet cars and soundproofing is quite heavy. We want electric everything, and all those motors are heavy. Aircon, heavy. Sound/nav system, yep, heavy.

An Ultima with quite heavy steel chassis and also a fairly heavy GF body, but can be built to weigh about a 1000kgs. Using some of the modern products could see that down to 850kgs, possibly. With 500 to 1000hp you can see what is possible in performance and handling if you keep weight down.

The probable march towards electric vehicles will make keeping weight to a minimum even more important if we are to see a useable ranges per charge.
Local councils think we will all swap to public transport, so are not living in the real world. But cars are likely to get smaller, lighter and probably have lower top speeds but with rapid acceleration.

But we buy cars to do different things that our lives demand. My everyday 3 tonne 4x4 has to perform tasks as diverse are collecting my fresh daily bread to towing hay trailers off road.

The F1 is one of those toys that we don't need, but want. It is the type of car that should be cutting edge and pushing boundaries. This it did very well.
Nobody needs a sports car - they just want one. But not everyone wants a bare bones hard core stripped out tooth rattler.
Maybe manufactures should start by building a tooth rattler, and then add the comfort options, rather than doing it the other way round as they do now.....

I agree with everything that you say.

[flemke]

Sway said:

Apologies to both for my mistake!

Flemke - what's your thoughts on the revival of TVR, I seem to remember you had one but was irritated by the build quality. With GM's input I'm hoping for something really quite special. It'll be interesting to see if they can match the aesthetics of the T cars.

I'm not sure how much GM will actually be involved.
Yes, I did have the typical (as in, "bad") experience as a TVR owner.
Yes, I loved the concept. I told TVR, "Would you please build cars that cost twice as much, with commensurate build quality?" They did not take my advice!

Most of my cars are either mid- or rear-engined. I prefer front-engined, and am eager to see if the new TVR makes the grade. My fear is that it won't, if only because these days it seems that, the uglier a car is, the greater the market demand for it.

[flemke]

LarJammer said:

flemke said:

The engine is fine as it is.

Can we have a more in depth description of how 'fine' it is?

Um, er...I'm not sure what to say that is not self-evident from the numbers: 6.1L, ~650BHP, 480 Lb-Ft, V12. Torque curve is reasonably flat. Bank angle is 60˚ - you could argue that it would have been better to widen that out and lower the CoG, although apparently 60˚ is optimal for minimising vibration, which in Gordon's conception of a GT car was a priority.

The car does not have a flywheel and thus, despite the large engine capacity, the revs can change almost instantaneously. The result is an engine with the underlying substance of a big capacity V12 but the reactivity of a medium-size, high-revving V8.

The driver sits directly below/in front of the air intake and plenum, the better to enjoy the aural treats that accompany the power delivery.

[flemke]

_dobbo_ said:

flemke said:

Apple has got to be at the centre of the current dynamic. Do the Ojjehs (not to be confused with the O'Jays!) and the Bahrainis want Apple to buy them out, but Ron is standing in the way? Does Apple want to buy only the whole thing, but Ron won't sell? Do Apple insist in rebranding? I could not say.

Interesting stuff, thanks for the reply. It would be a shame for Ron to get ousted from the business regardless of the reasons.

Yeah, well 5hit happens, I suppose. I believe that Ron is more honest than Bernie, but like Bernie he plays hardball. As I understand from various anecdotes, playing hardball was what caused his rift with Gordon Murray, caused his rift with Mercedes, and supposedly has caused his current rift with Ojjeh.

[AOK]

Days that this thread goes by with no replies are days I learn no new words. Today has been a real treat!

- plenum
- commensurate

[flemke]

douglas111 said:

There is a lovely looking black one in this month's copy of Evo magazine. Could it be the same one?

EDIT: Think I've answered my own question since the one in the magazine has a clear windscreen, that is, unless it was changed after the photos in the previous link:

Close up: http://www.magzter.com/preview/497/188959/

If you look at the black F1 in the photo, the personalised reg plate very much appears to resemble the name "KIDSTON".
It is public knowledge that there is a dealer of high-end cars named Simon Kidston, who in the last few years has handled more than one F1.
QED - that car is probably not Chris Evans's.

[cc8s]

flemke said:

Regardless of that, ss I was contemplating the 991R, I realised that I have a 997 GT3 with a Manthey 4.4L motor, Manthey suspension, full carbon doors and roof, etc. Richard Meaden drove it a few years ago and said it was the best Porsche he had ever driven. Relative to that car, I don't know how a 911R would be an improvement.

I wonder if it was one of the cars that was in the Manthey workshop when we visited earlier this year? It was a treat to see around but sadly a 'no picture' affair.

[isaldiri]

flemke said:

The way that Porsche handled that situation, having a full year in which to gauge reaction to the car amongst their little in-crowd of dealers taking backhanders, flippers, and ass-kissers, and then deliberately producing far fewer than the genuine demand, was pretty disgraceful - not to mention the deal that only US buyers of 918s got, granting them lifetime first dibs on all Porsche limited edition models.

Merely ten years of first dibs i think the US 918 owners got.....

Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 27th October 22:45

[flemke]

cc8s said:

flemke said:

Regardless of that, ss I was contemplating the 991R, I realised that I have a 997 GT3 with a Manthey 4.4L motor, Manthey suspension, full carbon doors and roof, etc. Richard Meaden drove it a few years ago and said it was the best Porsche he had ever driven. Relative to that car, I don't know how a 911R would be an improvement.

I wonder if it was one of the cars that was in the Manthey workshop when we visited earlier this year? It was a treat to see around but sadly a 'no picture' affair.

Depends on when you were there. My car was there in the winter and spring of this year.
Manthey did I think four road cars with the 4.4 engine, but they're not doing it anymore.

[flemke]

isaldiri said:

flemke said:

The way that Porsche handled that situation, having a full year in which to gauge reaction to the car amongst their little in-crowd of dealers taking backhanders, flippers, and ass-kissers, and then deliberately producing far fewer than the genuine demand, was pretty disgraceful - not to mention the deal that only US buyers of 918s got, granting them lifetime first dibs on all Porsche limited edition models.

Merely ten years of first dibs i think the US 918 owners got.....

Only a decade?