Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[flemke]

camshafted said:

Bonhams is selling #44 at its Quail auction next month. http://www.bonhams.com/video/24241/

It was the first F1 exported to the US. There can't be many one-owner F1s left now?

Thanks. It's always amusing to read the auction houses' promotional hype. It would never have occurred to me that anyone would value a souvenir fuel bladder that expired more than 15 years ago.

[flemke]

p1stonhead said:

Beefmeister said:

p1stonhead said:

Some (apparently fairly accurace) running costs are eye watering!

https://youtu.be/EsKDGdcb6BQ

Already discussed (and thoroughly debunked) a couple of pages back.

I'm only going by another owner and pistonheader saying it's slightly exaggerated but costs aren't too far off;

I believe that the fellow in the video (Bruce Weiner) sold his F1 in 2006, and thus the prices he states would be no more recent than that. I can guarantee you that prices in those days were nowhere near what he claims.

[flemke]

Veeayt said:

I have a question for the last 10 or so years, which nobody still answered. It's a bit geeky, but it gives me an itch every time I remember it. Maybe someone on here can answer it.

Many of you know, that the 917 had a gearknob made from balsa wood for lightness. It is said that as a tribute, Porsche decided pay tribute to it and make Carrera GT's gearknob also from wood, albeit from birch. If it's a tribute, why not make it from balsa still?

Yes, I have always wondered the same.
My hunch is that balsa was not used in the CGT because it is a very soft wood that will easily pick up gouges and dents. That would not matter in a racing car, but in a road car it could soon look tatty. Birch is pretty hard. The difference in weight between that amount of balsa and birch would be in the grams.

[Veeayt]

You are likely right

[mclwanB]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2017-7...

Autocar clickbait or is the super series replacement schedule now much sorted?

[bobo79]

Sounds more interesting than the BP23. Though not in the same spirit as the F1 as it sounds very focussed indeed.

[Sway]

Problem is, it's doomed to fail to meet it's objectives...

If we take the article at face value, Mclaren are looking to separate the P1's objectives across two cars - one the best GT ever, the other the most track focused road car.

Yet they're using the monocage2 tub...

Compared to the Valkyrie, it'll be aero limited, weigh more, and produce less power. Then there's the Mercedes.

They clearly need a new tub for BP23. Monocage2 is in the super series, and likely the next gen Sports. So if you're going to aim for such targets with this car, why not have a three chassis range - sports/super, three seater, ultimate two seater aero?

[isaldiri]

Sway said:

Problem is, it's doomed to fail to meet it's objectives...

If we take the article at face value, Mclaren are looking to separate the P1's objectives across two cars - one the best GT ever, the other the most track focused road car.

Yet they're using the monocage2 tub...

Compared to the Valkyrie, it'll be aero limited, weigh more, and produce less power. Then there's the Mercedes.

They clearly need a new tub for BP23. Monocage2 is in the super series, and likely the next gen Sports. So if you're going to aim for such targets with this car, why not have a three chassis range - sports/super, three seater, ultimate two seater aero?

AFAIK (which isn't that much to be fair), the P15 is not meant to be a car of the likes of the Aston or Merc chasing ultimate performance with almost regard to cost. Suggestions are that it's meant as a GTE homologation car and Mclaren are attempting doing a Ford GT and producing an LMP type car for GT class racing.

[bobo79]

isaldiri said:

AFAIK (which isn't that much to be fair), the P15 is not meant to be a car of the likes of the Aston or Merc chasing ultimate performance with almost regard to cost. Suggestions are that it's meant as a GTE homologation car and Mclaren are attempting doing a Ford GT and producing an LMP type car for GT class racing.

I'm not sure I see the logic in that when they can rely on BOP to level the playing field regardless of the underlying characteristics of the chassis. Hence Aston Martin being competitive with a very old platform and BMW entering with a whale of a car next year. They could just enter the 540 and have a fantastic basis for a racing car if they chose...

[isaldiri]

bobo79 said:

I'm not sure I see the logic in that when they can rely on BOP to level the playing field regardless of the underlying characteristics of the chassis. Hence Aston Martin being competitive with a very old platform and BMW entering with a whale of a car next year. They could just enter the 540 and have a fantastic basis for a racing car if they chose...

While I see what you are getting at re BoP, Porsche still clearly felt the adjustments by themselves were insufficient to make the RSR competitive and turned it mid engined this year by reversing the gearbox/engine locations on the 911. Plus I suppose having a lot of performance (lift to downforce etc) in the car allows for more effective sandbagging (as Ford did last year) as gaming the rules is a pretty important part of GT racing.

[bobo79]

The 911 engine switch around was (I believe) due to inherent rear tyre wear issues with rear engined cars - and I agree for characteristics such as that it's unlikely BOP is going to be much of an assistance. But the overall formula of a mid mounted V8 dropped into a fairy optimised carbon tub is going to work fine with any of Mclaren's models, particularly as aero is fairly open in GTE these days.

Of course Ford had no other sports cars in their range, so they didn't really have a choice when considering what to develop. Paradoxically though BMW didn't necessarily have this problem, but decided on a barge anyway. Pity.

[bobo79]

Plus of course Porsche didn't need to re-homologate the 911 with a new road car to make it mid engined. Engine orientation changes are actually allowed in the rules, which just goes to show how open the rule book is, and how Mclaren don't need to do a homologation special in this day and age

[flemke]

bobo79 said:

The 911 engine switch around was (I believe) due to inherent rear tyre wear issues with rear engined cars - and I agree for characteristics such as that it's unlikely BOP is going to be much of an assistance. But the overall formula of a mid mounted V8 dropped into a fairy optimised carbon tub is going to work fine with any of Mclaren's models, particularly as aero is fairly open in GTE these days.

Of course Ford had no other sports cars in their range, so they didn't really have a choice when considering what to develop. Paradoxically though BMW didn't necessarily have this problem, but decided on a barge anyway. Pity.

Other main reason for 911 engine switch was to provide more room at the back for the diffuser. With rear engine, Porsche were never able to create a diffuser that was competitive with those of mid-engine cars. Also, moving engine helped by reducing polar moment and made it easier for car to change direction.

[flemke]

Sway said:

Problem is, it's doomed to fail to meet it's objectives...

If we take the article at face value, Mclaren are looking to separate the P1's objectives across two cars - one the best GT ever, the other the most track focused road car.

Yet they're using the monocage2 tub...

Compared to the Valkyrie, it'll be aero limited, weigh more, and produce less power. Then there's the Mercedes.

They clearly need a new tub for BP23. Monocage2 is in the super series, and likely the next gen Sports. So if you're going to aim for such targets with this car, why not have a three chassis range - sports/super, three seater, ultimate two seater aero?

True, but the forthcoming Merc and Aston will cost about 3 times as much as the P15.
I would say that the P15 is meant to be an upmarket Ford GT, so to speak.
If I were going to take a road-legal "track" car to a circuit, I would much rather take the Ford than I would the Valkyrie. Showing up in something as indescribably OTT as a Valkyrie would make me feel like a complete tool. Then again, if the P15 is as in-your-face as say the P1GTLM (and I believe that it will be), one will be halfway to Valkyrie-levels of toolishness anyhow.

[Sway]

flemke said:

True, but the forthcoming Merc and Aston will cost about 3 times as much as the P15.
I would say that the P15 is meant to be an upmarket Ford GT, so to speak.
If I were going to take a road-legal "track" car to a circuit, I would much rather take the Ford than I would the Valkyrie. Showing up in something as indescribably OTT as a Valkyrie would make me feel like a complete tool. Then again, if the P15 is as in-your-face as say the P1GTLM (and I believe that it will be), one will be halfway to Valkyrie-levels of toolishness anyhow.

You could almost guarantee the driver would use the word 'weapon' in relation to it during the day too.

[Storer]

Flemke

Forgive me if you have already answered this but my advancing years see brain cells receding!

Have you had the chance to drive the Aston Vulcan on track and if so what do you think of it?



Paul

[Animal]

flemke said:

Showing up in something as indescribably OTT as a Valkyrie would make me feel like a complete tool. Then again, if the P15 is as in-your-face as say the P1GTLM (and I believe that it will be), one will be halfway to Valkyrie-levels of toolishness anyhow.

Why? Would you really feel self-conscious about driving the car of your choice at a track day, whatever it may be?

[VladD]

Animal said:

flemke said:

Showing up in something as indescribably OTT as a Valkyrie would make me feel like a complete tool. Then again, if the P15 is as in-your-face as say the P1GTLM (and I believe that it will be), one will be halfway to Valkyrie-levels of toolishness anyhow.

Why? Would you really feel self-conscious about driving the car of your choice at a track day, whatever it may be?

I have to agree. I can't see turning up in a Valkyrie any different to turning up in a F1 or P1.

[Monty Python]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Nah. Its an american version.

Left Hand Drive would be pants in the UK.

Very funny....


While on the topic of the F1 (what else), one thing I always notice is the rev counter needle doesn't move smoothly - what's the reason for this?

[lauda]

Animal said:

flemke said:

Showing up in something as indescribably OTT as a Valkyrie would make me feel like a complete tool. Then again, if the P15 is as in-your-face as say the P1GTLM (and I believe that it will be), one will be halfway to Valkyrie-levels of toolishness anyhow.

Why? Would you really feel self-conscious about driving the car of your choice at a track day, whatever it may be?

I do the odd triathlon and bike race. I'm not particularly good but I enjoy it and I know my limits.

I turn up on my pretty modest bike (which I happen to really like and which is always meticulously clean on race day) and I've got some half-decent kit that I'm comfortable in.

Some of my co-competitors turn up on bikes that cost more than my car, in the same skin suits that the pro teams use and with aero helmets. Some of them are very quick and just about justify the cost and mild ridiculousness of their equipment. Some of them are slower than me and, to use flemke's term, look like tools.

Clearly everyone is free to race on whatever bike they want, wearing whatever kit they want. It's no skin off my nose.

However, if you'd have been better off saving a few kilos by avoiding Gregg's rather than spending £'000s on a bike that looks highly ostentatious and is capable of things that its rider clearly isn't, you probably shouldn't be surprised that some people might think you're a bit foolish.