Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[E65Ross]

johnwilliams77 said:

E65Ross said:

Just because owners of various cars cannot extract the maximum potential from that car doesn't mean they shouldn't buy them. If they have the funds to do so and, more importantly, ENJOY them, then who cares?

Same with the bike issues above....so someone may spend lots of case on a top end bike when they aren't "top end" themselves, but if they enjoy it, why not? I've got a bike which cost around £2500 or so, I cycle around 200 miles per week, I'm quick, but not THAT quick but having ridden cheap crappy bikes and half decent ones, the decent ones just FEEL nicer, and make the experience more enjoyable.....even if I'm not technically good enough for it. I don't see why it should be different for supercar owners too.

I agree. Just to derail slightly, did you also try a 1k, 1.5k, 2k bike to see how good they were in terms of enjoyment you were likely to get?

Not exactly, but I have ridden various bikes in the past 5 years ranging from approx £350 up to about £4k. The £4k one was by far the nicest, electronic shifting was fantastic (though can be had on much cheaper bikes than that). I get fed up with regularly having to adjust the gears, change cables etc with mechanical shifting so electronic is definitely something I'll get next time.

When things work, and feel nice it makes the experience more enjoyable. Would it make you fitter having a more expensive bike? No (although if you enjoy it more and you cycle more because of it....yes) but liken it to trying to run in a pair of wellies vs a decent running shoe. Yes, you can run in wellies, but is it as pleasant an experience? No.

Don't see why supercar owners should have people saying "you can't extract 100% from that car, therefore you shouldn't own it!" to them. If they enjoy it, then great!

[Animal]

flemke said:

You make a fair point. I would however answer that the F1 has reasons to exist beyond how quickly it can go 'round a circuit. The purpose of the Valkyrie appears solely to be how quickly it can go 'round a circuit, and yet most (I daresay virtually all) of its owners will be people incapable of driving it properly on a circuit. As I think I wrote above, Valkyries will do more laps around Harrods than they will do around Silverstone.
All one needs to do is to spend a few minutes on Youtube searching for immature people putting up videos of themselves posing around, or pretending to offer insights into, "supercars" to observe the mentality to which I have been referring.

I have a tatty Gibson Les Paul that I bought through eBay a few years ago that I play very badly and love very much. My ability and my enjoyment are not inter-dependent. I'd wager (and I'd love to be able to find out!) that this would remain true regardless of how much I spent on a guitar.

You make a good point about some of the characters that buy these cars, and showing off is clearly not in your nature, but your argument doesn't leave a lot of room for clueless apes like me who just enjoy the experience, regardless of their ability or 'output'. I'd gladly pay the requisite millions to buy an F1 just to sit in the driver's seat and hear that induction noise. To me, it's perfection.

[flemke]

E65Ross said:

Just because owners of various cars cannot extract the maximum potential from that car doesn't mean they shouldn't buy them. If they have the funds to do so and, more importantly, ENJOY them, then who cares?

Same with the bike issues above....so someone may spend lots of case on a top end bike when they aren't "top end" themselves, but if they enjoy it, why not? I've got a bike which cost around £2500 or so, I cycle around 200 miles per week, I'm quick, but not THAT quick but having ridden cheap crappy bikes and half decent ones, the decent ones just FEEL nicer, and make the experience more enjoyable.....even if I'm not technically good enough for it. I don't see why it should be different for supercar owners too.

I can't disagree, Ross. I just dislike show-offs. If it's teenager, then okay - it's what teenagers do - but it's unseemly in people who are biologically adult.

[flemke]

Animal said:

flemke said:

You make a fair point. I would however answer that the F1 has reasons to exist beyond how quickly it can go 'round a circuit. The purpose of the Valkyrie appears solely to be how quickly it can go 'round a circuit, and yet most (I daresay virtually all) of its owners will be people incapable of driving it properly on a circuit. As I think I wrote above, Valkyries will do more laps around Harrods than they will do around Silverstone.
All one needs to do is to spend a few minutes on Youtube searching for immature people putting up videos of themselves posing around, or pretending to offer insights into, "supercars" to observe the mentality to which I have been referring.

I have a tatty Gibson Les Paul that I bought through eBay a few years ago that I play very badly and love very much. My ability and my enjoyment are not inter-dependent. I'd wager (and I'd love to be able to find out!) that this would remain true regardless of how much I spent on a guitar.

You make a good point about some of the characters that buy these cars, and showing off is clearly not in your nature, but your argument doesn't leave a lot of room for clueless apes like me who just enjoy the experience, regardless of their ability or 'output'. I'd gladly pay the requisite millions to buy an F1 just to sit in the driver's seat and hear that induction noise. To me, it's perfection.

We're all clueless about many things - I don't think there would be a lot of substance in a novel written by Lewis Hamilton.

Put it this way - in general, I think most of us can tell the difference between the ingenuous, sustainable enthusiasm that you express and the mentality of those who spend huge sums in order to flaunt their wealth and pose and are committed to something only as long as it is the latest and greatest.

[Monty Python]

Another interesting article:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10368266/...

[flemke]

Monty Python said:

Another interesting article:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10368266/...

Good link, thank you. Yes, it is an interesting article, although there are a few inaccuracies, or at least comments that should be clarified.

Cheers.

[PAUL500]

Throughout these ongoing threads you display some very aspergers like traits, and there is nothing wrong in that at all, I often recognise the same things in myself, and it is also why so many successful people out there cut through the bullst barriers in life and achieve their goals, as they simply think in black and white, not the varying shades of grey in society.

Do you recognise that in yourself? It took me a long time to realise why my thinking was different from most other people, although I have never been diagnosed, and such traits are often co morbid with other conditions anyway.

Now I do realise my thinking is different to the norm I can be swayed with constructive debate, has that happened to you at all? as you do seem very rigid in your views and will go into great detail as to why you wont be moved from a particular stance.

A friend works with autistic teenagers and when discussing such with them their view is that their life is ordered and under their control, and that society itself is weird as most people lives are in constant chaos.

I imagine Ron Dennis is a prime example of such.

Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 3rd August 12:08

[Dr Gitlin]

flemke said:

Good link, thank you. Yes, it is an interesting article, although there are a few inaccuracies, or at least comments that should be clarified.

Cheers.

My eyes started twitching when I saw they used an emdash instead a hyphen for open-wheel, then again when they wrote that the top speed was 231mph.

One of the things I miss about my previous life was the ability to read articles from car magazines without instantly putting my editor's hat on.

I know I've mentioned the idea before but one day I would love to do a feature on your car and the modifications you've made, though I understand why you are less than keen on the idea.

Edited by Dr Gitlin on Thursday 3rd August 16:46

[Joe911]

Dr Gitlin said:

My eyes started twitching when I saw they used an emdash instead a hyphen for open-wheel

Respek dude - that's properly pedantic. I need to up my game.

[Swampy1982]

Joe911 said:

Dr Gitlin said:

My eyes started twitching when I saw they used an emdash instead a hyphen for open-wheel

Respek dude - that's properly pedantic. I need to up my game.

My understanding is em dash is two separate words.

But then again, I am not an editor. (IANAE)

[bitwrx]

Swampy1982 said:

Joe911 said:

Dr Gitlin said:

My eyes started twitching when I saw they used an emdash instead a hyphen for open-wheel

Respek dude - that's properly pedantic. I need to up my game.

My understanding is em dash is two separate words.

But then again, I am not an editor. (IANAE)

I think it's hyphenated.

[Dr Gitlin]

Swampy1982 said:

My understanding is em dash is two separate words.

But then again, I am not an editor. (IANAE)

[flemke]

PAUL500 said:

Throughout these ongoing threads you display some very aspergers like traits, and there is nothing wrong in that at all, I often recognise the same things in myself, and it is also why so many successful people out there cut through the bullst barriers in life and achieve their goals, as they simply think in black and white, not the varying shades of grey in society.

Do you recognise that in yourself? It took me a long time to realise why my thinking was different from most other people, although I have never been diagnosed, and such traits are often co morbid with other conditions anyway.

Now I do realise my thinking is different to the norm I can be swayed with constructive debate, has that happened to you at all? as you do seem very rigid in your views and will go into great detail as to why you wont be moved from a particular stance.

A friend works with autistic teenagers and when discussing such with them their view is that their life is ordered and under their control, and that society itself is weird as most people lives are in constant chaos.

I imagine Ron Dennis is a prime example of such.

Paul,

I could not say with certitude that I do not "have" Asperger's Syndrome, if only because, as far as I know, I have never been assessed for it. I can say that I have never received a diagnosis of it, or of any other so-called personality disorder.

My impression is that in the last 2-3 decades as certain personality disorders have received growing media attention, the general public's understanding of each disorder has become fuzzy (to say the least), and the amateur labeling of people who have what might be called a distinctive personality as having a formal personality disorder has expanded enormously. This year alone, on countless occasions I have heard terms with specific professional definitions, such as Asperger's, bi-polar, schizophrenia, psychopathy, and sociopathy applied in ways that make clear that the speaker does not know what he or she is talking about. I don't direct that criticism towards you, as you do not go into enough detail for me to judge.

According to the most superficial Google search, Asperger's Syndrome is typified by:

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
Anxiety disorder.
Depression, especially in adolescents.
Nonverbal learning disorder.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD).
Social anxiety disorder.

You would have to ask people who know me well how many if any of those traits I manifest, but I am quite sure that I do not manifest at least several of them.

If you would like to say that I seem odd, then fair enough - I may well do. I am not however aware of any particular personality disorder basket currently in use in which I reside.

[sc0tt]

What an odd question.

[Swampy1982]

sc0tt said:

What an odd question.

I thought the same... Handled with class though, fair play

[hondafanatic]

sc0tt said:

What an odd question.

To you and me yes but if you're somewhere on the spectrum maybe not?

[flemke]

hondafanatic said:

sc0tt said:

What an odd question.

To you and me yes but if you're somewhere on the spectrum maybe not?

Good one.

[hyphen]

bitwrx said:

Swampy1982 said:

Joe911 said:

Dr Gitlin said:

My eyes started twitching when I saw they used an emdash instead a hyphen for open-wheel

Respek dude - that's properly pedantic. I need to up my game.

My understanding is em dash is two separate words.

But then again, I am not an editor. (IANAE)

I think it's hyphenated.

Hyphen's are way cooler than emdashes. They get all the girls

[PAUL500]

hondafanatic said:

To you and me yes but if you're somewhere on the spectrum maybe not?

Correct

The reason I posed the question is that Flemke is quite resolute on many matters, and goes into quite some detail as to why he takes a particular stance, and is rarely if ever swayed away from it, even when constructive alternative argument is put forward, and it got me wondering if he realised such.

Many people with Aspergers etc have never been diagnosed as it is a higher functioning condition that does not affect peoples day to day lives, but once they do realise they may have that way of thinking it can often then answer a lot of questions about how they view life thus far.

I had no idea I probably had it myself until my adopted daughter started displaying out of the norm ways of thinking from the age of 4 when she started attending full time education.

There was no test for children that young so I sat with her and translated the online adult test into a child friendly version and between us we both answered the various questions on her behalf, and she scored a 34 which is well into the aspergers range. It then got me thinking so I also then did the test and I came out as a 36!

I then had my ex wife also do the test and she scored an 18 which is the normal range.

If anyone wants to check their score give it a go, its easy enough to do

https://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectr...

Edited by PAUL500 on Monday 7th August 21:58

[flemke]

PAUL500 said:

There was no test for children that young so I sat with her and translated the online adult test into a child friendly version and between us we both answered the various questions on her behalf, and she scored a 34 which is well into the aspergers range. It then got me thinking so I also then did the test and I came out as a 36!

I then had my ex wife also do the test and she scored an 18 which is the normal range.

If anyone wants to check their score give it a go, its easy enough to do

https://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectr...

I got a 25.