Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[camshafted]

This isn't forgotten about barnfind though. I imagine it has been meticulous maintained over the past 20 years as an investment which has handsomely paid off. From a £500,000 car to an eight-figure asset in two decades.

[GCH]

Sad that it will probably still never turn a wheel and remain in the new owners climate controlled storage.

[hondansx]

I would personally like to see it going to an existing F1 owner - one for the collection, one to drive.

[RobDickinson]

camshafted said:

The F1 is the modern day 250 GTO. It's quite interesting that practically no road or racing car built from the mid-1960s onwards gets near to the F1 in value.

Its the most iconic car of the last 30 years for sure, plus came at a time when the world market crashed limiting sales and the total number of examples.

Odd comparing it to the xj220 - a more compromised car with a very troubled launch but htis should have been every bit as iconic yet failed (on the whole) and was forgotten about.

What else do we have , f40? LaFerrari Aperta ?

http://www.conceptcarz.com/auction/topSales.aspx

[Martin350]

hondansx said:

I would personally like to see it going to an existing F1 owner - one for the collection, one to drive.

I would prefer to see it being driven and enjoyed for what it is and what it can do, and to bring enjoyment to people who get to see and hear it in that process.

[Sway]

Pagani has achieved a rather excellent result with the Zonda.

In some ways, perhaps similar to the Miura or F1 - the first commercial car from each company and one in which in some way defines the era and advanced the breed.

There is something that bit extra with a 250GTO or a F1 though, via the association with racing.

[flemke]

camshafted said:

flemke said:

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

I am sure Erik will be on at some stage to give the full lowdown on the yellow F1. It is a bit sad to see one of the greatest cars ever built come onto the market having not been driven in 20 years.

Re. non-expert dealer; I think Tom Hartley Jnr has sold a number of F1s over the past few years. Out of interest, who do you rate as an 'expert' F1 seller? McLaren and David Clark? I am sure there are others that mere mortals aren't aware of!

I think before now TH Jr has sold two long-tail GTRs (which tend to be the least valuable of all F1s). He might be the best dealer of that sort around - I would not know. As a generalisation, however, I would not expect someone of his youth to have the client list comprising, or the rapport with, the more mature, international petrolheads who tend to be the buyers of this sort of car.
Wrt the names that you suggest, I would always want to give McLaren (as in "Cars Ltd") the first shot at it. My next call would probably be to Simon Kidston, a dealer who has his own F1 road car and who has the sort of contacts required.
Wrt David Clark, there is no bargepole long enough....

[flemke]

LarJammer said:

flemke said:

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

Anything can be fixed, im sure a quick [sic] service at the factory would have that sorted. I love a bit of originality & seeing all of the accessories still wrapped up makes my inner boy very excited. If i could, i would but reckon TH will be asking a world record price for it.

I can almost guarantee that he won't be getting the world-record price for an F1, although he might well better the highest published price for one.

[flemke]

trackdemon said:

Given that values have been into 8 figures for a while now, is this a sign that the owner suspects the market is as high as it's ever going to be? Naturally, it's sad to see the car unused, but I can't deny the fascinating timewarp aspect of it. Would love to have a look around that!

I daresay that most of the F1s that have changed hands in the last five years were sold because the owner suspected that the market was as high as it was ever going to be. Likewise most of the 250GTOs that have been sold in the last 50 years.

[chris333]

flemke said:

LarJammer said:

flemke said:

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

Anything can be fixed, im sure a quick [sic] service at the factory would have that sorted. I love a bit of originality & seeing all of the accessories still wrapped up makes my inner boy very excited. If i could, i would but reckon TH will be asking a world record price for it.

I can almost guarantee that he won't be getting the world-record price for an F1, although he might well better the highest published price for one.

now that's intriguing. What would be a ballpark figure for the highest unpublished price for one?

[Davey S2]

flemke said:

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

He’s sold at least 3 F1s in recent years so is probably more knowledgeable than most dealers.

[flemke]

RobDickinson said:

camshafted said:

The F1 is the modern day 250 GTO. It's quite interesting that practically no road or racing car built from the mid-1960s onwards gets near to the F1 in value.

Its the most iconic car of the last 30 years for sure, plus came at a time when the world market crashed limiting sales and the total number of examples.

Odd comparing it to the xj220 - a more compromised car with a very troubled launch but htis should have been every bit as iconic yet failed (on the whole) and was forgotten about.

What else do we have , f40? LaFerrari Aperta ?

http://www.conceptcarz.com/auction/topSales.aspx

The "problem" with the F40 is that they made more than a thousand of them. Scarcity is crucial in these situations.
LaF Aperta - NFW. They might be lusted after by a few of today's gilded sheep, but that thing cannot possibly stand the test of time. I don't say that they will become worthless, but Ferrari have made too many of this sort of thing, it's pug-ugly, and whatever makes it "special" will soon be superseded by the next model.

[flemke]

Davey S2 said:

flemke said:

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

He’s sold at least 3 F1s in recent years so is probably more knowledgeable than most dealers.

Could be, and he might do a superb job here.
All I would add to what I wrote above is that, in these situations, clients usually value discretion. Why would you start the marketing by broadcasting it to the world over the internet?

[flemke]

chris333 said:

flemke said:

LarJammer said:

flemke said:

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

Anything can be fixed, im sure a quick [sic] service at the factory would have that sorted. I love a bit of originality & seeing all of the accessories still wrapped up makes my inner boy very excited. If i could, i would but reckon TH will be asking a world record price for it.

I can almost guarantee that he won't be getting the world-record price for an F1, although he might well better the highest published price for one.

now that's intriguing. What would be a ballpark figure for the highest unpublished price for one?

Mid-$20s.

[hurstg01]

flemke said:

Davey S2 said:

flemke said:

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

He’s sold at least 3 F1s in recent years so is probably more knowledgeable than most dealers.

Could be, and he might do a superb job here.
All I would add to what I wrote above is that, in these situations, clients usually value discretion. Why would you start the marketing by broadcasting it to the world over the internet?

Unless he has already sold it and part of the sale agreement was that he could advertise it as being 'for sale' to aide his marketing and increase his social media presence?

[ZOLLAR]

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

I'd quite like the Tag, lovely watch.

Tag had a few left over as they expected more F1s to be sold than there were, some were given away or sold.
I believe as well as the owner watches they also released a non owners version, the difference being the owners watch had the chassis number on the face.

There's more in depth detail regarding the watch online for those that like them as much as cars!


EDIT,

Flemke, do you still have the Tag for your F1?
it's rare for the non owners ones to come up for sale let alone the owners watch (likely most would swap hands with the car, literally).

Edited by ZOLLAR on Tuesday 17th October 13:27

[flemke]

hurstg01 said:

flemke said:

Davey S2 said:

flemke said:

Interesting, thanks. Not sure how much the car has suffered by having been undriven for the last 20 years....
I always cringe a bit when I see a non-expert dealer trying to sell an F1, especially via the internet, but it is what it is. I believe that car has been owned from new by a Japanese person, which perhaps helps to explain things.

He’s sold at least 3 F1s in recent years so is probably more knowledgeable than most dealers.

Could be, and he might do a superb job here.
All I would add to what I wrote above is that, in these situations, clients usually value discretion. Why would you start the marketing by broadcasting it to the world over the internet?

Unless he has already sold it and part of the sale agreement was that he could advertise it as being 'for sale' to aide his marketing and increase his social media presence?

Possibly, although that would be false advertising.

[flemke]

ZOLLAR said:

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

I'd quite like the Tag, lovely watch.

Tag had a few left over as they expected more F1s to be sold than there were, some were given away or sold.
I believe as well as the owner watches they also released a non owners version, the difference being the owners watch had the chassis number on the face.

There's more in depth detail regarding the watch online for those that like them as much as cars!


EDIT,

Flemke, do you still have the Tag for your F1?
it's rare for the non owners ones to come up for sale let alone the owners watch (likely most would swap hands with the car, literally).

Fortunately I do. I have heard of people wanting to buy an F1 but only if the watch came with it.

[frankenstein12]

flemke said:

ZOLLAR said:

camshafted said:

Tom Hartley Jnr is selling 060 - http://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/used/1997/classic/mcl...

I'd quite like the Tag, lovely watch.

Tag had a few left over as they expected more F1s to be sold than there were, some were given away or sold.
I believe as well as the owner watches they also released a non owners version, the difference being the owners watch had the chassis number on the face.

There's more in depth detail regarding the watch online for those that like them as much as cars!


EDIT,

Flemke, do you still have the Tag for your F1?
it's rare for the non owners ones to come up for sale let alone the owners watch (likely most would swap hands with the car, literally).

Fortunately I do. I have heard of people wanting to buy an F1 but only if the watch came with it.

That would make them the most expensive TAG watches ever

[frankenstein12]

060 has various issues from my viewpoint. I think the colour is grim and would need the car to either be wrapped or re painted in something more subtle and classy.

As others have said the other issue is it would probably need to go to mclaren for a full refurb per se depending on maintenance history as it probably needs new fuel cell and most rubberised components replaced.

Has the engine been run?
If so how often and for how long?
Original tyres or new ones?
Suspension probably needs changing if its been sitting for years.
How often has engine and or gearbox oil been replaced?

Etc etc.

I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.