Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
frankenstein12 said:
I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.
It's a car - possibly the greatest road car that will ever be built. The bigger sacrilege would be for it never to be driven. Buy it, send it back to the factory to be recommissioned, and then collect the last brand new unused F1 there is, and use it properly.I even don't mind the colour too much. At least it's not yet another boring silver/grey.
I have seen something elsewhere indicating that the price being sought is £25m. If someone were paying that then if they were not transferring it straight to their own private museum, the buyer would probably look to have full recommissioning by McLaren worked into the deal (potentially to include a colour change it that is what they wanted). Don't forget that when considered in light of the ongoing ownership (especially insurance) costs, recommissioning a £25m car at the factory isn't going to be an emotional sum to a buyer who can genuinely afford it.
Fingers crossed that it goes to someone who will drive it though.
Fingers crossed that it goes to someone who will drive it though.
DiscoColin said:
I have seen something elsewhere indicating that the price being sought is £25m. If someone were paying that then if they were not transferring it straight to their own private museum, the buyer would probably look to have full recommissioning by McLaren worked into the deal (potentially to include a colour change it that is what they wanted). Don't forget that when considered in light of the ongoing ownership (especially insurance) costs, recommissioning a £25m car at the factory isn't going to be an emotional sum to a buyer who can genuinely afford it.
Fingers crossed that it goes to someone who will drive it though.
Not an expert but that is fantasy money. Sure there may be someone willing to pay that but its highly unlikely. That is LM money i would say.Fingers crossed that it goes to someone who will drive it though.
flemke said:
trackdemon said:
Given that values have been into 8 figures for a while now, is this a sign that the owner suspects the market is as high as it's ever going to be? Naturally, it's sad to see the car unused, but I can't deny the fascinating timewarp aspect of it. Would love to have a look around that!
I daresay that most of the F1s that have changed hands in the last five years were sold because the owner suspected that the market was as high as it was ever going to be. Likewise most of the 250GTOs that have been sold in the last 50 years. 
frankenstein12 said:
060 has various issues from my viewpoint. I think the colour is grim and would need the car to either be wrapped or re painted in something more subtle and classy.
As others have said the other issue is it would probably need to go to mclaren for a full refurb per se depending on maintenance history as it probably needs new fuel cell and most rubberised components replaced.
Has the engine been run?
If so how often and for how long?
Original tyres or new ones?
Suspension probably needs changing if its been sitting for years.
How often has engine and or gearbox oil been replaced?
Etc etc.
I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.
WRT aging of components though inactivity;As others have said the other issue is it would probably need to go to mclaren for a full refurb per se depending on maintenance history as it probably needs new fuel cell and most rubberised components replaced.
Has the engine been run?
If so how often and for how long?
Original tyres or new ones?
Suspension probably needs changing if its been sitting for years.
How often has engine and or gearbox oil been replaced?
Etc etc.
I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.
1, What makes anyone think a coolant hose which has been internally exposed to coolant (which is formulated to be non-corrosive) and externally exposed to dehumidified air for 25yrs would be any worse off than the same hose exposed to the same type of coolant for the same time which has been heat cycled many thousand times and exposed to the elements?
2, A suspension bush which has not been exposed to the elements and only supported the mass of the car under no load,
compared to a well used bush?
3, Suspension? Springs which whilst carrying the mass of the car would be well within the elastic limits of the material (otherwise all 25yr old cars would be sat on their bump stops)? Dampers are oil filled and with such little use the likelihood of any foreign body contamination is minimal, likewise any wear related particles suspended in the fluid.
4, Engine? How long is an oil seal shelf life? I can buy a BMW oil seal and it will have the original, non-barcoded label from the 1980s. THere maybe an issue if the engine was not run for sufficient time to evaporate combustion condensates, and therefore sticky rigs may be an issue.
5, Oils? I doubt that any oil degrades significantly when stored in the presence of atmosphere. Engine oil comes back to the presence of condensates.
6, Anything in contact with fuel may be an issue, but probably no more than a similar aged well used car. Issues may arise from the high fractions of fuel evaporating and subsequent gumming.
7, Brake components? Brake fluid is hydroscopic, and regardless of use, should be replaced periodically. If it has never been replaced, there could be significant moisture content in the fluid and this may cause some damage through corrosion.
8, Tyres? They have a shelf life, so likely need replacing.
If I were purchasing a car (not necessarily of similar value!) which had similar history, I would be inclined to;
1, Replace the fuel related rubber components including pump, regulator and lines. Also have the injectors cleaned.
2, Bleed the brakes, check function of caliper pistons and pressure test.
3, Change engine oil, hand crank. Endoscope the bores and cam tray. If all OK, spin over on starter with plugs removed until oil pressure is steady. Compression test and if all is OK, fire it up.
4, Fresh set of tyres and MOT.
I'm sure, there are plenty of service providers who would swear that the car will explode and kill all occupants and small children within 50miles. But those same service providers would also be in the business of relieving the wealthy of considerable sums of money.
All IMO (engineering) opinion.
frankenstein12 said:
060 has various issues from my viewpoint. I think the colour is grim and would need the car to either be wrapped or re painted in something more subtle and classy.
As others have said the other issue is it would probably need to go to mclaren for a full refurb per se depending on maintenance history as it probably needs new fuel cell and most rubberised components replaced.
Has the engine been run?
If so how often and for how long?
Original tyres or new ones?
Suspension probably needs changing if its been sitting for years.
How often has engine and or gearbox oil been replaced?
Etc etc.
I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.As others have said the other issue is it would probably need to go to mclaren for a full refurb per se depending on maintenance history as it probably needs new fuel cell and most rubberised components replaced.
Has the engine been run?
If so how often and for how long?
Original tyres or new ones?
Suspension probably needs changing if its been sitting for years.
How often has engine and or gearbox oil been replaced?
Etc etc.
I would however buy it in a heartbeat and then be conflicted about driving it. No mclaren should be put in a display case but one that is so original it almost seems sacrilege to put mileage on it.
flemke said:
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.
Would be a shame not to use it while we still have petrol available though!!!I hate people who only buy cars as an investment.
They were built to be driven - not to sit!
AlmostUseful said:
Disingenuous from the outside. It's a saleable item. A car. Pretending there's some higher thing going on is pretentious s
te.It's about making money. Just admit it.
flemke said:
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.
Or you could look at it as if you're buying the last remaining new and unused car at full price, instead of paying half or two thirds of the price for a used one. It's just the prices are rather more than they were from the factory 20 years ago.People buy new cars and destroy the value of them by using them all the time.
flemke said:
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.
Absolutely. Although I do wish for a purchaser who perhaps looks at it differently - and has dreamed of a F1 for a long time, but wasn't in a position to get one when new. On that basis, paying a premium to effectively 'buy from new' (I do understand that lots of the real experience will have been missed) with the same tailoring as is usual when one of these changes hands, could make sense...
I do acknowledge this is a pipe dream, but if my numbers came in on the euromillions I think I'd do it. After all, easy come, easy go in that scenario!
thegreenhell said:
flemke said:
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.
Or you could look at it as if you're buying the last remaining new and unused car at full price, instead of paying half or two thirds of the price for a used one. It's just the prices are rather more than they were from the factory 20 years ago.People buy new cars and destroy the value of them by using them all the time.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
flemke said:
The thing is, if you're paying a big premium to get a never-used, as-it-left-the-factory example, by repainting or driving it you would be spoiling the USP for which you paid the big premium.
I've paid for very good meals in my time, guess where that premium ended up?
Drclarke said:
How that horrid little man managed to beg and borrow the money to purchase that car beggars belief.
It is such a shame that such a car ends up for sale with a Hartley.
I have no idea of TH Jr's financial status, but in the last few years as certain cars have become much more expensive, it has been common for a specialist dealer to get one or more wealthy backers to help him purchase individual cars, then split the profits.It is such a shame that such a car ends up for sale with a Hartley.
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