Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Don1]

Because racecar:

[E65Ross]

cc8s said:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/geneva-auto...

Can't see it happening, or rather I can't see it being a proper F1 successor and becoming remotely as legendary.

In my very humble opinion, I think some of the Zonda models are spiritual successors. Small volume, manual boxes, V12 engine, good attention to details. The noise the Zonda F makes is absolutely breathtaking. It is scary, though, how far car and tyre tech has moved on....The Zonda F is no faster than just general high-end sports cars these days (like a 911 Carrera S, for example). Madness!

[CanAm]

Don1 said:

Because racecar:

But why? Surely from an engineering point of view a shorter strut in compression directly under the wing is more logical. Assuming that an engineer
wouldn't do that purely for appearance's sake, then there must be an aerodynamic benefit that I don't appreciate, or something in the regulations has caused it.

[Don1]

CanAm said:

But why? Surely from an engineering point of view a shorter strut in compression directly under the wing is more logical. Assuming that an engineer
wouldn't do that purely for appearance's sake, then there must be an aerodynamic benefit that I don't appreciate, or something in the regulations has caused it.

Flow separation apparently. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/rearwingLMPCFD2009....

[flemke]

CanAm said:

Swampy1982 said:

I for one would say that is one of the best looking Senna's i have seen.

Principle reason being colour, I think the darker shade hides some of the more challenging shapes, and the stripes draw your eye away from some of the others.

Well done that man.

I would love to hear about some of the drive experience, some comparisons with some of the other cars you own, obviously you have given some of your previous McLarens mixed reviews in the past.

Definitely the best looking Senna I have seen; as Swampy says the colour disguises the aerodynamic 'features' of the car. But what is the reason for the weird 'suspended' rear aerofoil mounting?

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

[flemke]

Swampy1982 said:

I for one would say that is one of the best looking Senna's i have seen.

Principle reason being colour, I think the darker shade hides some of the more challenging shapes, and the stripes draw your eye away from some of the others.

Well done that man.

I would love to hear about some of the drive experience, some comparisons with some of the other cars you own, obviously you have given some of your previous McLarens mixed reviews in the past.

I drove it for only about half an hour. The car is US-spec, and now resides in the States. It's kind-of what you would expect, the most notable features being the light weight and tremendous stopping power (aided by the rotating rear wing). It's a car that needs open roads: in Germany it would be great, but not really a UK car.

[CanAm]

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

[SpeckledJim]

CanAm said:

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

It's the underside of a wing that does the more important work, not the top side, so that's why the fixings are placed on the top, where the consequences of their disruption are lower.

[flemke]

CanAm said:

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

I would put it this way: guys who design racing cars for a living say that it works better when mounted from the top, and I am happy to take their word for it.

[Caddyshack]

flemke said:

CanAm said:

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

I would put it this way: guys who design racing cars for a living say that it works better when mounted from the top, and I am happy to take their word for it.

What would Mclaren know....oh, wait!

[Krikkit]

SpeckledJim said:

CanAm said:

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

It's the underside of a wing that does the more important work, not the top side, so that's why the fixings are placed on the top, where the consequences of their disruption are lower.

Exactly!

All the detail you could want here: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/rearwingLMPCFD2009....

And although the graphs at the end are absolutely shocking, some more here: https://www.symscape.com/blog/cfd-study-comparing-...

[SpeckledJim]

coyft said:

Flemke, I imagine that aesthetics are an important part of your life.

What emotions does the Senna stir, when you look at it.

I'd like to commend the delicacy with which this question was phrased.

A less erudite individual might have said something like "stone me! Don't fancy yours much, but I bet she goes like a bat in a biscuit tin?"

[CanAm]

flemke said:

CanAm said:

flemke said:

You're trying to get the air on the underside of the wing to flow as fast as possible, to make it less dense. Uprights connected to the underside tend to impede the flow.

But the upright is quite close to the leading edge and would still have some effect on the underwing airflow (but reduced, I agree) and the swan neck design introduces a whole area of drag on the top surface, and would also need to be stronger to avoid any bending element that the curved shape introduces. Unless of course that is the idea, and the swan neck bends slightly at higher speeds, partially feathering the wing.

I would put it this way: guys who design racing cars for a living say that it works better when mounted from the top, and I am happy to take their word for it.

And who am I to argue with them?
(But I still think it looks ugly .....well, ungainly at least )

I remember a well known (Australian?) driver commenting on an ugly car, along the lines of:-
"It may look ugly now, but when she wins the race she'll look bloody beautiful!"

[anniesdad]

Have you seen the spyshots of the next generation 992 GT3. The wing on that!



Of course it might not look like that on the production version...

[flemke]

coyft said:

Flemke, I imagine that aesthetics are an important part of your life.

What emotions does the Senna stir, when you look at it.

- Embarrassment
- Resignation
- Whimsy
- Fun

[Ninja59]

Flemke would your Senna be the one that Reep Midlands recently had in for detailing a few weeks ago?

I remember it being US spec as the exhaust was only two as opposed to three and they were not exactly happy with people querying the exhaust on social media if I remember correctly.

[hondafanatic]

flemke said:

coyft said:

Flemke, I imagine that aesthetics are an important part of your life.

What emotions does the Senna stir, when you look at it.

- Embarrassment
- Resignation
- Whimsy
- Fun

In that order?

And seeing as it's me...I take it there's no NSX update?

[flemke]

hondafanatic said:

flemke said:

coyft said:

Flemke, I imagine that aesthetics are an important part of your life.

What emotions does the Senna stir, when you look at it.

- Embarrassment
- Resignation
- Whimsy
- Fun

In that order?

And seeing as it's me...I take it there's no NSX update?

Yes, in that order.

Re NSX, yes there has been some movement, or shall I say information.
Thanks to the help of a friend, I have a Japanese local dealer who will take in the car and handle the process, as I was getting nowhere dealing direct with the Refresh program notwithstanding that they told me that I could liaise directly with them.
Saying that, I am reevaluating whether I want to do it at all. My life has just got so complicated, and I have lost patience in dealing with outside parties that either require a level of bureaucratic BS that is absurd or promise one thing and do another (for example, I was promised that a car being built for me would be delivered to me by 30 June, 2005, and I am still waiting for it).
I don't have enough time to drive and enjoy the cars that I have, and there is no point is making the problem worse.

[Digger]

flemke said:

Yes, in that order.

Re NSX, yes there has been some movement, or shall I say information.
Thanks to the help of a friend, I have a Japanese local dealer who will take in the car and handle the process, as I was getting nowhere dealing direct with the Refresh program notwithstanding that they told me that I could liaise directly with them.
Saying that, I am reevaluating whether I want to do it at all. My life has just got so complicated, and I have lost patience in dealing with outside parties that either require a level of bureaucratic BS that is absurd or promise one thing and do another (for example, I was promised that a car being built for me would be delivered to me by 30 June, 2005, and I am still waiting for it).
I don't have enough time to drive and enjoy the cars that I have, and there is no point is making the problem worse.

Another new TVR deposit-holder.

[Sway]

Still waiting for the Healey? That's ridiculous.