Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Caddyshack]

flemke said:

SpeckledJim said:

Petrus1983 said:

flemke said:

(for example, I was promised that a car being built for me would be delivered to me by 30 June, 2005, and I am still waiting for it).

This makes you sound impatient

Yeah, the guy said he was going to do it. He doesn't need nagging every decade.

I know, I know. I just get antsy sometimes - have to learn to be more patient.

My car went away for a new cage and floor Feb 18 for "6 weeks to 3 months max"....It is half finished March 19 despite weekly chasers.

[flemke]

Antony Moxey said:

flemke said:

Antony Moxey said:

flemke said:

- Embarrassment
- Resignation
- Whimsy
- Fun

Why embarrassment and resignation?

Embarrassment that I would be associated with such a boy-racer, in-yo-face sort of thing.
Resignation that, if I want the driving experience that the car offers, I have to accept that it looks the way that it does.

Ah right. Would you say your F1 trumps the other cars in your fleet, and should that be the case why bother collecting the fleet you have? Are the driving experiences that much different that they warrant, IYO obviously, such a huge expense, or is it simply, as it would be in my case, that they're nice shiny things to have that you can afford so why not and they're only going to go up in value so again why not?

It's a bit like food: there will be something that is your favourite, but you would not want to eat it three times a day every day of the year. Variety is pleasurable in its own right and, by having it, one can better appreciate what makes something special. There are major differences amongst the cars that I have and I enjoy them more for that.

[F1GTRUeno]

Apologies flemke, thought I'd sent an email in Feb but it'd gone to my drafts so one has been sent now.

Cheers!

[epom]

Seems this one found a new owner this week.

[hurstg01]

epom said:

Seems this one found a new owner this week.

The new owner had it handed over to him this week, he bought it a year or more back and it has been in MSO for some work. It looks great!!

Edited by hurstg01 on Wednesday 13th March 14:47

[DannyScene]

Cant imagine they stand for sale long one they came up!

Out of interest what do people think the above would be worth (if actual sales figures aren't public obviously)

[hurstg01]

DannyScene said:

Cant imagine they stand for sale long one they came up!

Out of interest what do people think the above would be worth (if actual sales figures aren't public obviously)

Once it came from Japan, when it was still white and before MSO worked on it, it may have been in the range of £5-8m+; now its been restored and in the livery its in and its the first F1 to come out of the 'F1 Certified' programme, possibly £10-16m+, more if it were road converted as it ups it usage [although I fear it may not be used, possibly not as much as say #28R, one of the F1 GTR longtail's that are road registered as '28 LOL' and seen driving the roads of wintry Europe late last year]

[flemke]

epom said:

Seems this one found a new owner this week.

I was lucky enough to see that car numerous times since it arrived at MSO and the ground-up restoration started at least 18 months ago. By coincidence I was at MSO on Friday when it was leaving to be taken up the road to MTC for the handover, and I helped the boys get it onto the low-loader.
The original car did more service as a racing car than any other GTR. When it arrived at MSO for the restoration, it had been through the wars. Over the years many things had been altered, jerry-rigged, repaired or patched.
The car now is as good as new - if not better.
As to market value, unlike a number of other GTRs, this car never had outstanding racing success. On the other hand, unlike most other GTRs, it is in pristine condition and its original livery was one of the very best of all the GTRs'.
My guess is that somebody out there would pay at least £15m for it.

[thegreenhell]

The restoration was detailed in Octane magazine a couple of months ago. Surely the best F1 livery, bar none.

[Sway]

thegreenhell said:

Surely the best F1 livery, bar none.

I think it's the orange wheels that really kick it off...

I've never been a huge fan of the longtails in the 'flesh' when they've had a line up of racing F1s at Goodwood. However, it is a very purposeful looking beastie.

18 months seems a long time for a refresh - I've obviously missed something, but to what level does this 'programme' go to?

[Petrus1983]

Sway said:

I think it's the orange wheels that really kick it off...

I've never been a huge fan of the longtails in the 'flesh' when they've had a line up of racing F1s at Goodwood. However, it is a very purposeful looking beastie.

18 months seems a long time for a refresh - I've obviously missed something, but to what level does this 'programme' go to?

Please don’t mention refresh timescales on this forum

[Sway]

Good point, well made.

Oops.

[flemke]

thegreenhell said:

The restoration was detailed in Octane magazine a couple of months ago. Surely the best F1 livery, bar none.

[Davislove]

Hi Flemke,

Of the road going F1’s made, do you have a number of how many are left? Or by and large have they all survived by being being repaired?

How do they change hands nowadays? as I guess they aren’t openly advertised anymore!

Also, on the YouTube videos one gets a strong sense of dominating induction noise, is the aural experience a bit more nuanced than that in real life?

Cheers

[flemke]

Davislove said:

Hi Flemke,

Of the road going F1’s made, do you have a number of how many are left? Or by and large have they all survived by being being repaired?

How do they change hands nowadays? as I guess they aren’t openly advertised anymore!

Also, on the YouTube videos one gets a strong sense of dominating induction noise, is the aural experience a bit more nuanced than that in real life?

Cheers

They built 106 running cars (excluding the original Monaco show car, which was not operative).
Of the 106, two road car prototypes crashed, one in high-speed testing and the other in the type-approval impact test.
Of the customer cars, two were completely destroyed, one in that fiery crash in Essex and the other in the high-speed shunt on the Autobahn.
Two others, one the BMW road car and the other among the several owned by the Brunei royal family, were badly crashed and "written off", although AIUI the remains of both still exist and, in theory, could possibly be repaired and returned to usability with their original chassis plates.

For the first ten years or so, pretty much all the cars that changed hands did so via McLaren. (Mine was an exception in that a mutual friend introduced me and the owner.) In the last ten years, all and sundry have got into the act, everybody from someone such as Tom Hartley Jr to DK Engineering to Sothebys and Christies to Simon Kidston to Joe Macari to Wynken, Blynken and Nod. Some of the aforementioned couldn't tell an F1 from an F-15, but we needn't go into that.

From within the cabin, probably 75% of the noise one hears is induction noise, and a lovely noise it is.

Edited by flemke on Friday 15th March 20:58

[Sway]

flemke said:

Some of the aforementioned couldn't tell an F1 from an F-15, but we needed go into that.

And one or two others in the list might have had sufficient "respect" and control of the substantive market to have redefined the value of certain types of the F1...

[Davislove]

flemke said:

Davislove said:

Hi Flemke,

Of the road going F1’s made, do you have a number of how many are left? Or by and large have they all survived by being being repaired?

How do they change hands nowadays? as I guess they aren’t openly advertised anymore!

Also, on the YouTube videos one gets a strong sense of dominating induction noise, is the aural experience a bit more nuanced than that in real life?

Cheers

They built 106 running cars (excluding the original Monaco show car, which was not operative).
Of the 106, two road car prototypes crashed, one in high-speed testing and the other in the type-approval impact test.
Of the customer cars, two were completely destroyed, one in that fiery crash in Essex and the other in the high-speed shunt on the Autobahn.
Two others, one the BMW road car and the other among the several owned by the Brunei royal family, were badly crashed and "written off", although AIUI the remains of both still exist and, in theory, could possibly be repaired and returned to usability with their original chassis plates.

For the first ten years or so, pretty much all the cars that changed hands did so via McLaren. (Mine was an exception in that a mutual friend introduced me and the owner.) In the last ten years, all and sundry have got into the act, everybody from someone such as Tom Hartley Jr to DK Engineering to Sothebys and Christies to Simon Kidston to Joe Macari to Wynken, Blynken and Nod. Some of the aforementioned couldn't tell an F1 from an F-15, but we needed go into that.

From within the cabin, probably 75% of the noise one hears is induction noise, and a lovely noise it is.

thats's really interesting thanks!

I've read on here that you've done a lot of work on your car to improve the handling, and I think you even mentioned to dickie meaden in jest before handing him the keys that the chassis 'stinks' .....but I've never understood what exactly are the foibles with the standard setup? how does it drive up to say 7/10's? I'd love to find out for myself one day but think that's pretty unlikely!

cheers

[flemke]

Davislove said:

thats's really interesting thanks!

I've read on here that you've done a lot of work on your car to improve the handling, and I think you even mentioned to dickie meaden in jest before handing him the keys that the chassis 'stinks' .....but I've never understood what exactly are the foibles with the standard setup? how does it drive up to say 7/10's? I'd love to find out for myself one day but think that's pretty unlikely!

cheers

Up to 7/10s it's fine, but much above that it gets tricky.
The issue is that the rear of the car tends to feel unstable under throttle lift-off or braking. As far as I have been able to determine, that feeling is the result of a combination of a less-than-ideal balance between the front tyres and the rear ones (difference in "corner force stiffness"), very compliant tyres that allow a lot of lateral movement, the location of the driver pretty far forward within the wheelbase, and the driver's head being relatively low in relation to the centre of mass.

[Mikeeb]

flemke said:

Up to 7/10s it's fine, but much above that it gets tricky.
The issue is that the rear of the car tends to feel unstable under throttle lift-off or braking. As far as I have been able to determine, that feeling is the result of a combination of a less-than-ideal balance between the front tyres and the rear ones (difference in "corner force stiffness"), very compliant tyres that allow a lot of lateral movement, the location of the driver pretty far forward within the wheelbase, and the driver's head being relatively low in relation to the centre of mass.

Hi Flemke

Does that mean that the cars with the HD kit and bigger wheels with a lower sidewall profile lose most of the foible you describe above?

Ta

Mike

[flemke]

Mikeeb said:

flemke said:

Up to 7/10s it's fine, but much above that it gets tricky.
The issue is that the rear of the car tends to feel unstable under throttle lift-off or braking. As far as I have been able to determine, that feeling is the result of a combination of a less-than-ideal balance between the front tyres and the rear ones (difference in "corner force stiffness"), very compliant tyres that allow a lot of lateral movement, the location of the driver pretty far forward within the wheelbase, and the driver's head being relatively low in relation to the centre of mass.

Hi Flemke

Does that mean that the cars with the HD kit and bigger wheels with a lower sidewall profile lose most of the foible you describe above?

Ta

Mike

HDK helps but does not solve the problem.