Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Sway]

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

Why? Just out of question.

[epom]

flemke said:

epom said:

Henry is my favorite writer. His voice somehow sounds like how he writes.

Are you familiar with his bicycle reviews?

Nope, it pains me enough to be dreaming about cars I could never afford to own. Adding bicycles to the list could t possibly help

[andyps]

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

When it was revealed and GM said it would include a fan I was reminded of Mario Andretti saying it threw stones out of the back. Whilst untrue on the race car which was highly unlikely to be running on a surface where there would be loose stones for the fan to pick up and throw out (possibly some rubber from tyres but I don't remember that being much of an issue when the BT46B was developed). However, it surely could be an issue with a road car where the surfaces it would be used on are much less well maintained. Imagine driving it over a road which had just been treated with tar and gravel as so many UK roads are

[Sway]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

Why? Just out of question.

They without fail seem to rely on very, very consistent interaction between the floor of the car and the road.

Any sudden deviation, and the amount of downforce changes instantly.

It's much more efficient, which is why race cars with it are so much quicker. Less effected by slipstream too.

However, imagine going around a corner. Not massively quick, but relying on the car's downforce - mechanical grip isn't enough.

Now place a tree root or crest on the corner - even a decent bump. Suddenly, the gap between floor and road changes massively, and with it the amount of downforce - the tyres can't maintain traction on mechanical grip alone - so off you spin at a rapid rate of knots.

No engineer, so my layman understanding. Happy to be corrected!

[lauda]

epom said:

flemke said:

epom said:

Henry is my favorite writer. His voice somehow sounds like how he writes.

Are you familiar with his bicycle reviews?

Nope, it pains me enough to be dreaming about cars I could never afford to own. Adding bicycles to the list could t possibly help

To be fair, his cycle writing is more about the route than the bike. Mountains are his speciality and his regular pieces in Cyclist are excellent.

He basically has my dream job, driving the best cars in the world and riding the greatest climbs.

[stefan1]

flemke said:

cc8s said:

Fantastic car and reviewer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQPIBFz1ZJo

Ah, yes - one of my all-time favourite cars.
I think I can honestly say that I had something to do with that car's owner, who is a friend of mine, getting his, after he tried mine and liked it. Some of the mods Henry mentioned were things I had asked Chris to do when I ordered mine, such as the relocation (and enlargement) of the fuel tank. On mine, unlike on the car in the video, we reversed the shift pattern to make it more intuitive: pull back to shift up.
Regarding the brakes, however, there really is no reason at all to upgrade them beyond standard. Into most bends all you need to do is to lift and the grip and lack of mass in relation to the frontal area/drag mean that the car will usually slow itself enough that braking is completely unnecessary.
As to whether it is too light, I must admit that in a strong crosswind the car can get tricky. Also, as Henry alluded, there is an issue with whether the car is heavy enough for street-legal tyres to key into the asphalt. There is a road-legal rally tyre that we put on mine, softer than pretty much anything designed specifically for a road car, and they work fine.
I do wish that the engine had more torque. Standing starts up a hill are a killer (at least for anyone who, like me, is loath to slip a clutch). As I think I have related here before, a number of years ago Chris, Gordon and I agreed to do a Rocket II, edition of only two, with the main difference being a modern, higher-torque engine and possibly direct drive. After we got started, however, each of us realised that, whilst it was a great idea, we probably should be doing other things and so we dropped it.

Mention was made of the lovely logo. I want to point out that it was designed by the brilliant Rick Ward, whose CV includes Beatles album covers and other very clever things. As I did relate here before, I spent quite a bit of time trying to get that logo used in a set of special key fobs. We got most of the way there, but the supplier was a bit slow on its feet (in fairness, by their standards it would have been a small job), then I got submerged in some very demanding personal stuff, and the mock-up is still sitting in my desk somewhere.

I can indeed vouch for this - I would not be in the fortunate position to own one of these fantastic cars were it not for my friend Flemke. I still remember picking up your car which you had very kindly lent me for a weekend to try out - driving it in London traffic was an experience I shall not forget!

But it did inspire me to accept Chris Craft's invitation to commission one of the second batch cars, and I rather followed your advice on things like fuel tank placement.

I've done about 2,500 miles in the car now - not huge, but every one has been a "fun" mile with no transit mileage (I trailered the car to Wales for the video with Henry). The one thing I plan to do next year is take it to a track; perhaps we should organise something together?

Anyhow, delighted with Henry's lovely video of the car which captures its essence very well.

[robinessex]

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Afternoon Flemke, sure you've probably already seen this in some form or another but now it's in the public domain - penny for your thoughts?

Yes, that is Gordon's forthcoming T.50, as revealed to the public today on the Autocar website.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/gordon...
My thoughts are that it should be a great car from a great designer.
I have a few concerns, which I shall not elaborate here.

Just tried to look at that, Autocar insists I sign up for their bloody ads. Goodbye Autocar then, I'll read in W. H. Smiths from now on.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Sway said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

Why? Just out of question.

They without fail seem to rely on very, very consistent interaction between the floor of the car and the road.

Any sudden deviation, and the amount of downforce changes instantly.

It's much more efficient, which is why race cars with it are so much quicker. Less effected by slipstream too.

However, imagine going around a corner. Not massively quick, but relying on the car's downforce - mechanical grip isn't enough.

Now place a tree root or crest on the corner - even a decent bump. Suddenly, the gap between floor and road changes massively, and with it the amount of downforce - the tyres can't maintain traction on mechanical grip alone - so off you spin at a rapid rate of knots.

No engineer, so my layman understanding. Happy to be corrected!

I thought that was more the whole "ground effect" thing, not the fan? Ala Lotus F1 car?

[pistolpedro]

I visited what I thought was the LCC factory a number of years ago, (although looking on google maps now I don't think it was, I remember it being in a converted barn outside of London, it was a lovely workshop) 

Chris had a couple in build, from what I understood the OZ wheels were no longer available he mentioned Volk (TE37?) as a possible alternative, I remember thinking what a special thing it was,  

Seemed like a nice guy, slightly grumpy but funny with it 

I've often wondered about the GMD logo and if there's any connection / influence with Portmeirion?, can see a lot of similarities between the two

[Petrus1983]

robinessex said:

Just tried to look at that, Autocar insists I sign up for their bloody ads. Goodbye Autocar then, I'll read in W. H. Smiths from now on.

I wasn’t pushed to do that. It is annoying when well regarded magazines expect to try and make a profit out of their good work too

[hurstg01]

hurstg01 said:

flemke said:

I believe I may have one of those, as well as one with more green to it - let me try to find it later and I'll pop pictures up

[Rocket.]

hurstg01 said:

Interesting never seen a green one before but looks good. I have 4 or 5 spare of the lapel pin Rocket badges as per the original if anyone wants one drop me a message and proof of a small donation to a Alzheimers society charity (say £10?) and i'll send you one.

[playalistic]

Rocket. said:

hurstg01 said:

Interesting never seen a green one before but looks good. I have 4 or 5 spare of the lapel pin Rocket badges as per the original if anyone wants one drop me a message and proof of a small donation to a Alzheimers society charity (say £10?) and i'll send you one.

Yes please! I'll be sure to drop more than a tenner in as well.

[pistolpedro]

That's a lovely gesture, I don't think your profile is set to receive messages (unless I'm doing something wrong)

[Rocket.]

pistolpedro said:

That's a lovely gesture, I don't think your profile is set to receive messages (unless I'm doing something wrong)

Thanks for the heads up I think that should be fixed now

[hurstg01]

Rocket. said:

pistolpedro said:

That's a lovely gesture, I don't think your profile is set to receive messages (unless I'm doing something wrong)

Thanks for the heads up I think that should be fixed now

+1

[S1KRR]

stefan1 said:

I can indeed vouch for this - I would not be in the fortunate position to own one of these fantastic cars were it not for my friend Flemke. I still remember picking up your car which you had very kindly lent me for a weekend to try out - driving it in London traffic was an experience I shall not forget!

But it did inspire me to accept Chris Craft's invitation to commission one of the second batch cars, and I rather followed your advice on things like fuel tank placement.

I've done about 2,500 miles in the car now - not huge, but every one has been a "fun" mile with no transit mileage (I trailered the car to Wales for the video with Henry). The one thing I plan to do next year is take it to a track; perhaps we should organise something together?

Anyhow, delighted with Henry's lovely video of the car which captures its essence very well.

I see your "garage" has an A2 as well.

I'm sure Flemkes opinion is valid on many automotive issues, but he's SO wrong on the love for the A2


@Flemke.

Erik posted a great pic of your car to his Instagram.




(From the Autocar article on the T50) Have you any recent pics to share with us?

Edited by S1KRR on Wednesday 11th December 15:06

[Rocket.]

hurstg01 said:

Rocket. said:

pistolpedro said:

That's a lovely gesture, I don't think your profile is set to receive messages (unless I'm doing something wrong)

Thanks for the heads up I think that should be fixed now

+1

3 gone, 1 left (maybe 2 but have to check)

[Sway]

Rocket. said:

hurstg01 said:

Rocket. said:

pistolpedro said:

That's a lovely gesture, I don't think your profile is set to receive messages (unless I'm doing something wrong)

Thanks for the heads up I think that should be fixed now

+1

3 gone, 1 left (maybe 2 but have to check)

Flat out at the minute chap - could I be cheeky and ask to reserve one? Will provide evidence of donation by tomorrow morning...

S