Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Sway]

There are some potential "opportunities" through swapping bikes (but absolutely believe that it should remain legal, for a whole host of reasons)...

Individual Time Trial, with a mountain in the middle.

Scritineering only occurs pre & post stage with the bike and equipment at those points.

It is not beyond the wit of man to suggest there may be a benefit in swapping to a below UCI legal weight limit bike for the climb. Equally, in the current era, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that bike could have electric motor assist via the bottom bracket...

Swapping back to an entirely reasonable aero TT bike for the flat run to the finish...

[flemke]

Sway said:

There are some potential "opportunities" through swapping bikes (but absolutely believe that it should remain legal, for a whole host of reasons)...

Individual Time Trial, with a mountain in the middle.

Scritineering only occurs pre & post stage with the bike and equipment at those points.

It is not beyond the wit of man to suggest there may be a benefit in swapping to a below UCI legal weight limit bike for the climb. Equally, in the current era, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that bike could have electric motor assist via the bottom bracket...

Swapping back to an entirely reasonable aero TT bike for the flat run to the finish...

I must admit that I don't know the UCI protocol for ascertaining the weight of competitors' bikes. I doubt that they are weighed before/after every stage.
An underweight bike would get you kicked out of a race, but a motorised bike would get you in much bigger trouble. AFAIK the only professional rider to be caught with a motorised bike was that Belgian woman cyclist. She got a six-year ban, which IIRC was the longest-ever ban on a rider who was still competing (Armstrong's was longer but he had retired already).

[Sway]

For a GT, especially the mountain stages, I think you'd be surprised...

They're kept very, very close to the absolute minimum, and there is a kind of Parc ferme approach.

Key is, if swapping bike twice - that bike ridden in the "middle" of a stage is effectively invisible to scrutiny.

You really think these teams are only willing to cheat medically?

[flemke]

Sway said:

For a GT, especially the mountain stages, I think you'd be surprised...

They're kept very, very close to the absolute minimum, and there is a kind of Parc ferme approach.

Key is, if swapping bike twice - that bike ridden in the "middle" of a stage is effectively invisible to scrutiny.

You really think these teams are only willing to cheat medically?

What would surprise me?

I agree that some if not all of the teams would be prepared to cheat. My point was just that to get caught having supplied a motorised bike (which would require the active cooperation of the team, unlike a rogue rider taking PEDs on the sly) would precipitate a massive penalty and it would take a very bold (or very desperate) team to risk what would almost certainly be the team's closing down.

[F1natic]

I kind of pride myself on having trawled the internet for things F1 related, yet today google has thrown me a pure surprise; not sure if many of you have seen this pearl before but I had never seen the F1 being thrashed so heavily.

The camber of the suspension at full roll appears quite negative - see 6:19 for an extreme example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-_A7HmYHbk

Anyone able to roughly translate?

[Petrus1983]

Driving like that in the wet!

[bolidemichael]

How nice to see a McLaren being driven enthisiastically! It conveys the dynamic capabilities of the chassis... also the flames from the exhausts!

Also, it was nice to have an overview of the vehicle's functions - I liked the flap on the nearside that houses a custom luggage and something else...

[WCZ]

Petrus1983 said:

Driving like that in the wet!

that was back when they were cars not investments!

[trackdemon]

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

[flemke]

F1natic said:

I kind of pride myself on having trawled the internet for things F1 related, yet today google has thrown me a pure surprise; not sure if many of you have seen this pearl before but I had never seen the F1 being thrashed so heavily.

The camber of the suspension at full roll appears quite negative - see 6:19 for an extreme example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-_A7HmYHbk

Anyone able to roughly translate?

I cannot translate the verbal language, but the video reminds me exactly of how the standard car feels with a quick change of direction: the front tucks in nicely but then there is a slightly delay before the rear starts to roll: that is the part that can catch you out and leave a bit of a sick feeling in the pit of one's stomach. If you're on top of it, no problem, but you really need to be focused in anticipation of when the rear starts to move.

[flemke]

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

[trackdemon]

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

"The chassis kinda sucks, but it's got a good engine" or something like that IIRC

[flemke]

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

"The chassis kinda sucks handling stinks, and the brakes don't work, but it's got a good great engine", or something like that IIRC

[trackdemon]

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

"The chassis kinda sucks handling stinks, and the brakes don't work, but it's got a good great engine", or something like that IIRC

Close enough

[flemke]

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

"The chassis kinda sucks handling stinks, and the brakes don't work, but it's got a good great engine", or something like that IIRC

Close enough

Impressively close!

[stevesingo]

flemke said:

I cannot translate the verbal language, but the video reminds me exactly of how the standard car feels with a quick change of direction: the front tucks in nicely but then there is a slightly delay before the rear starts to roll: that is the part that can catch you out and leave a bit of a sick feeling in the pit of one's stomach. If you're on top of it, no problem, but you really need to be focused in anticipation of when the rear starts to move.

Flemke, have you fitted a rear anti-roll bar (I'm sure it has already been asked)?

[jhoneyball]

Interesting comments re F1 by Andy Wallace here:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31530/the-drive-inte...

[flemke]

stevesingo said:

flemke said:

I cannot translate the verbal language, but the video reminds me exactly of how the standard car feels with a quick change of direction: the front tucks in nicely but then there is a slightly delay before the rear starts to roll: that is the part that can catch you out and leave a bit of a sick feeling in the pit of one's stomach. If you're on top of it, no problem, but you really need to be focused in anticipation of when the rear starts to move.

Flemke, have you fitted a rear anti-roll bar (I'm sure it has already been asked)?

No, never really considered it. Paul Lanzante told me that one of the other teams running F1s at Le Mans 1995 tried it but quickly saw that it was not an improvement and discarded the idea.
Gordon has never used a RARB on a car. His point is that - assuming that the chassis is sufficiently stiff torsionally - you don't need two devices doing the same job. Pairs of ARBs were necessary back in the days when chassis were flexible. RARBS also help in racing because they enable faster adjustments to the car's roll: with adjustment available at both ends, less trial-and-error is necessary when you're trying to tweak the F-R balance.

[flemke]

jhoneyball said:

Interesting comments re F1 by Andy Wallace here:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31530/the-drive-inte...

Nice interview. Andy's a class act.

[g3org3y]

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

flemke said:

trackdemon said:

Sorry to be 'that guy' but I think the video of the cornering is utter tosh, they're just swerving left right almost like they're deliberately trying to invoke a crash - on a banking too, WTF? Get it wrong and they're into trees or a barrier. Strange. If you want a period video of it being thrashed properly on track, this one of Tiff Needells test is the one (just wish there was a better resolution version):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIzYquArAE

Then of course there's EVO's test of our very own Flemke's car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cKvZMLQnQ

Fond memories!

"The chassis kinda sucks handling stinks, and the brakes don't work, but it's got a good great engine", or something like that IIRC

Close enough

Impressively close!

Newsflash: Best bit of the McLaren F1 is the bit McLaren didn't make!?