Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
Tobermory said:
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
I believe it's nothing to do with funding, more the fact it's a sHow do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
t road car (cramped, noisy, no luggage space etc). TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Tobermory said:
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
I believe it's nothing to do with funding, more the fact it's a sHow do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
t road car (cramped, noisy, no luggage space etc). t. You end up carrying around unneeded performance and then go through contortions to make it seem useable. I don't imagine driving a 765LT is much fun on the road 99% of the time.flemke said:
I don't think so, more like the opposite.
I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
Thanks for clarifying. And hence the question as I was sure I read sometime ago when you explained the position on the T.50 you had a keenness for the ONE - my mistake clearly.I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
flemke said:
The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
100% - I understand manufacturers have to go somewhere, improve somehow, but it has all become a spreadsheet / trinket / collection value war versus 'great ownership and use car' I fear. Or we are all getting old? We used to drool at the Countach posters on the wall (or equivalent) and our Dads will have said how impractical versus the SD1 or Orion on the driveway?It has been interesting to see over the last series and this series to an extent how TG are saying not dissimilar.
They had two restomods on last year that were adored. This year the Rivan EV had Harris saying at the end how conventional manufacturers need to stop chasing EV's in speed and acceleration and focus on the passion and fun.
The Ferrari, the Huarya and the Gt4 - outcome.
I commented moons ago how I was lucky to ride in a friends P1. Astonishing thing. Would I want one? No.
I keep coming back to (and is it sensible head / middle age) that a non winged 911 GTS type thing is all one ever needs to drive on a road from a maximum feasible / footprint / compliance perspective ?
Tobermory said:
flemke said:
I don't think so, more like the opposite.
I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
Did you consider the track version? I’m of the opinion that on track is really the best place to experience cars at the limit these days.I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
waremark said:
flemke said:
I
The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
Quite. For road driving in the UK, personally I consider that anything more than 250 bhp per ton is more likely to reduce enjoyment than to increase it. The fastest car I have driven is a Senna - and I joke that there are few cars slower on the roads round where I live. I drove it slowly because of the width, the hard ride and the cost of repairing it if anything were to go wrong. People choosing more powerful cars probably have different motivations - the owner of that car has driven it very fast on track and he enjoys the experience of owning something special. I have a car with more power than 250 bhp per ton which I enjoy for its looks, sound, finishes and image as well as enjoying driving it. I know you have said that one of the pleasures of having the F1 is the challenge of driving a difficult car well. What other motivations have you had for owning very fast cars?The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
Do you think a high proportion of the buyers of ultra expensive and fast cars see them primarily as investments, works of art, driving machines or something other?
Tobermory said:
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
My scepticism about the Valkyrie derived from the (biased) belief that for decades AM have been a company of more style than substance. I resented the way that they would promote 'their' racing technology and achievements when all they were doing was paying Prodrive to design, build, and run racing cars with vaguely Aston-Martin-like bodywork. How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
The Valkyrie has a couple of nice elements to it but overall is ugly - that front splitter on a road car is risible. And the idea that, to enter or leave the car, one must climb through what is essentially a porthole? Then there is this notion that everything a car maker produces has to incorporate that company's 'design language', which usually means the front grille. In AM's case the grille works nicely on their normal GT-type road cars, but not at all on the Valkyrie.
And then Stroll got involved....
New Red Bull project - as I was saying above, wtf is the point? Brand promotion of a fizzy drink - okay, but not for me. Faster-ever racing car because of no formula restrictions - okay, but keep it as a racing/track day car, don't flog it to enough rich fantasists and pretenders in order to generate the turnover required to develop the racing car.
Too much BS, noise, and flim-flam, if you ask me.
PushedDover said:
flemke said:
I don't think so, more like the opposite.
I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
Thanks for clarifying. And hence the question as I was sure I read sometime ago when you explained the position on the T.50 you had a keenness for the ONE - my mistake clearly.I was interested in the T.50, mostly out of loyalty to Gordon. Then there was an honest misunderstanding between his finance people and his head of sales, with the result that, although I had been one of the first people to receive the marketing package a year previously and had had a couple meetings with Gordon about it, I did not get an allocation. I could live with that, no problem.
Re the One, I was never interested in a car with a 1.6 litre turbo engine and electric motors generating as much BHP as the engine does. I did not however dislike the idea of the One as much as I disliked the idea of the Valyrie, of which I was always sceptical and, if I may say so, that scepticism appears to have been justified.
flemke said:
The problem with all this stuff is: what do you do with it? They are all wide or very wide, and are super capable although we exist in a driving environment in which there are less space, lower speed limits, more roadworks, worse road surfaces, few places to park, and a broad antipathy to using a car for anything other than the most mundane, tedious forms of pragmatic transportation when there is no alternative. Not an environment that rewards an extremely fast modern car!
100% - I understand manufacturers have to go somewhere, improve somehow, but it has all become a spreadsheet / trinket / collection value war versus 'great ownership and use car' I fear. Or we are all getting old? We used to drool at the Countach posters on the wall (or equivalent) and our Dads will have said how impractical versus the SD1 or Orion on the driveway?It has been interesting to see over the last series and this series to an extent how TG are saying not dissimilar.
They had two restomods on last year that were adored. This year the Rivan EV had Harris saying at the end how conventional manufacturers need to stop chasing EV's in speed and acceleration and focus on the passion and fun.
The Ferrari, the Huarya and the Gt4 - outcome.
I commented moons ago how I was lucky to ride in a friends P1. Astonishing thing. Would I want one? No.
I keep coming back to (and is it sensible head / middle age) that a non winged 911 GTS type thing is all one ever needs to drive on a road from a maximum feasible / footprint / compliance perspective ?
This discussion reminds me of a comment made by a late friend of mine. A conservative fellow, he had no interest in cars but collected art.
He once said, 'My taste in art starts in the late nineteenth century - and goes backwards from there!'
Thanks Flemke.
The other problem with the Valkyrie, and track hypercars is that they are way too fast for most trackdays even at somewhere like Silverstone with other track cars. The approach speeds to even a GT3 RS or a challenge cup car would be just dangerous.
You’d be restricted to owners only events in practice. In which case you might as well buy an actual single seater and go the whole hog.
The other problem with the Valkyrie, and track hypercars is that they are way too fast for most trackdays even at somewhere like Silverstone with other track cars. The approach speeds to even a GT3 RS or a challenge cup car would be just dangerous.
You’d be restricted to owners only events in practice. In which case you might as well buy an actual single seater and go the whole hog.
flemke said:
Tobermory said:
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
My scepticism about the Valkyrie derived from the (biased) belief that for decades AM have been a company of more style than substance. I resented the way that they would promote 'their' racing technology and achievements when all they were doing was paying Prodrive to design, build, and run racing cars with vaguely Aston-Martin-like bodywork. How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
The Valkyrie has a couple of nice elements to it but overall is ugly - that front splitter on a road car is risible. And the idea that, to enter or leave the car, one must climb through what is essentially a porthole? Then there is this notion that everything a car maker produces has to incorporate that company's 'design language', which usually means the front grille. In AM's case the grille works nicely on their normal GT-type road cars, but not at all on the Valkyrie.
And then Stroll got involved....
New Red Bull project - as I was saying above, wtf is the point? Brand promotion of a fizzy drink - okay, but not for me. Faster-ever racing car because of no formula restrictions - okay, but keep it as a racing/track day car, don't flog it to enough rich fantasists and pretenders in order to generate the turnover required to develop the racing car.
Too much BS, noise, and flim-flam, if you ask me.
I'm guessing you didn't buy a Cygnet then...
Tobermory said:
Thanks Flemke.
The other problem with the Valkyrie, and track hypercars is that they are way too fast for most trackdays even at somewhere like Silverstone with other track cars. The approach speeds to even a GT3 RS or a challenge cup car would be just dangerous.
You’d be restricted to owners only events in practice. In which case you might as well buy an actual single seater and go the whole hog.
Exactly. Do want to do actual racing, or do you want to mess around and be the fastest guy on the circuit merely because you have the fastest car on the circuit? The other problem with the Valkyrie, and track hypercars is that they are way too fast for most trackdays even at somewhere like Silverstone with other track cars. The approach speeds to even a GT3 RS or a challenge cup car would be just dangerous.
You’d be restricted to owners only events in practice. In which case you might as well buy an actual single seater and go the whole hog.
Tobermory said:
flemke said:
Tobermory said:
Flemke is your objection to the Valkyrie related to its technical merits or more to the apparent cynicism of its funding model (and that's certainly turning to be a can of worms in the courts to be sure)?
How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
My scepticism about the Valkyrie derived from the (biased) belief that for decades AM have been a company of more style than substance. I resented the way that they would promote 'their' racing technology and achievements when all they were doing was paying Prodrive to design, build, and run racing cars with vaguely Aston-Martin-like bodywork. How do you feel about the Red Bull hypercar that they are apparently developing., are you interested in that?
cheers.
The Valkyrie has a couple of nice elements to it but overall is ugly - that front splitter on a road car is risible. And the idea that, to enter or leave the car, one must climb through what is essentially a porthole? Then there is this notion that everything a car maker produces has to incorporate that company's 'design language', which usually means the front grille. In AM's case the grille works nicely on their normal GT-type road cars, but not at all on the Valkyrie.
And then Stroll got involved....
New Red Bull project - as I was saying above, wtf is the point? Brand promotion of a fizzy drink - okay, but not for me. Faster-ever racing car because of no formula restrictions - okay, but keep it as a racing/track day car, don't flog it to enough rich fantasists and pretenders in order to generate the turnover required to develop the racing car.
Too much BS, noise, and flim-flam, if you ask me.
I'm guessing you didn't buy a Cygnet then...
Tempted though I was, I somehow found the strength to resist that one!
flemke said:
As always, my thoughts are not worth much but I do enjoy discussing things related to the F1. 
At any point do you worry about the future useability of the car. Things like the recent G50 and road conditions have been mentioned - but do you ever fear a point of towing the car to one static exhibit to another? Petrus1983 said:
flemke said:
As always, my thoughts are not worth much but I do enjoy discussing things related to the F1.
At any point do you worry about the future useability of the car. Things like the recent G50 and road conditions have been mentioned - but do you ever fear a point of towing the car to one static exhibit to another? flemke said:
As long as it is possible to buy super-unleaded (or an equivalent), I am not worried. The fact is that I don't drive the car often anymore but, whenever I do, it is still a great buzz.
That’s interesting. And apologies for another question leading from it - do you just rock up to the local Shell garage. In my mind there’s no reason not to - a BMW engine and some gasoline should be a good mix. Petrus1983 said:
That’s interesting. And apologies for another question leading from it - do you just rock up to the local Shell garage. In my mind there’s no reason not to - a BMW engine and some gasoline should be a good mix.
Well I'm pretty sure it was designed to run on petrol so I'm guessing yes 
Petrus1983 said:
flemke said:
As long as it is possible to buy super-unleaded (or an equivalent), I am not worried. The fact is that I don't drive the car often anymore but, whenever I do, it is still a great buzz.
That’s interesting. And apologies for another question leading from it - do you just rock up to the local Shell garage. In my mind there’s no reason not to - a BMW engine and some gasoline should be a good mix. On the Continent it's a bit different, as several of the big companies offer 99 (or 100) RON.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Petrus1983 said:
That’s interesting. And apologies for another question leading from it - do you just rock up to the local Shell garage. In my mind there’s no reason not to - a BMW engine and some gasoline should be a good mix.
Well I'm pretty sure it was designed to run on petrol so I'm guessing yes Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff