RE: Audi TT S: Review

[iloveboost]

Baryonyx said:

I must say that the review makes for disappointing reading. After seeing the unveiling of the new TT, it sounded as though Audi were ready to forget the disastrous and decidedly ugly mkII model and give us a TT that drives as good as it looks. What a shame they have turned this out with 'armfuls of understeer'. Part of me wonders if Audi is still scared after the controversy surrounding the stability of the mkI TT at high speed, and coupled with the car's success with women drivers, they are content now to give the TT loads of safe understeer and uninspiring drive.

It is a great shame these days that manufacturers tend towards making the car safe and turgid in the handling department, rather than leaving it up to the driver to ultimately control the car.

I don't know if it's that bad. Dale is used to fast driving and track cars so anything with understeer is going to feel worse to him than any normal driver. It's probably no worse than the Mk2 understeers with slightly less weight meaning a slightly faster turn in.
You have to drive like an idiot to get most cars to squeal their tyres *into* or during a corner unless you steer way too fast and/or too much. Even then they still turn! Most people will never experience a front end slide unless it's wet and they really misjudge a tight bend. I imagine with understeer the ESP has more of a safety margin to 'create' oversteer as well.
I know it won't be much fun for an experienced driver on a track day but on the road it's probably better than the old model in every way.

[scherzkeks]

iloveboost said:

I don't know if it's that bad. Dale is used to fast driving and track cars so anything with understeer is going to feel worse to him than any normal driver. It's probably no worse than the Mk2 understeers with slightly less weight meaning a slightly faster turn in.
You have to drive like an idiot to get most cars to squeal their tyres *into* or during a corner unless you steer way too fast and/or too much. Even then they still turn! Most people will never experience a front end slide unless it's wet and they really misjudge a tight bend. I imagine with understeer the ESP has more of a safety margin to 'create' oversteer as well.
I know it won't be much fun for an experienced driver on a track day but on the road it's probably better than the old model in every way.

The previous Conti Teves systems have quite a quite generous yaw allowance. I can't imagine the one on the MKIII is any different.

[anonymous-user]

What if you want the passenger to change something on the satnav....

[cerb4.5lee]

Clivey said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I bet yours went really well then agree regards timing with big bills as my mrs was pregnant at the time and she didn't take to kindly to me spending that sort of money on a car she didn't like anyway!!(mainly because of the pain it gave me)

I am a big fan of Nobles and always liked them too and as you say on the right road at the right time that sort of car just takes so much beating in the feel good factor stakes.

Where did you have the rebuild done? I don't think you'll find a lot to touch a TVR for the sense of occasion (even if the occasion is waiting for the AA ).

Very good! Jason at str8six did it for me and he is such a great guy to deal with and his and his teams knowledge is superb.

[Lost soul]

Baryonyx said:

It is a great shame these days that manufacturers tend towards making the car safe and turgid in the handling department, rather than leaving it up to the driver to ultimately control the car.

Another driving god

[Baryonyx]

Lost soul said:

Another driving god

Thanks, it seems the barrier for entry is rather low these days! Back in the day you had to be Walter Rohrl, now you just have to complain about a turgid chassis on a performance car!

[scherzkeks]

Baryonyx said:

... now you just have to complain about a turgid chassis on a performance car!

That you've merely read about, and in an article that would appear to be written by a child. I'd say this fits with the standard PH definition quite well.

[britsportscars]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Gardus said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

As with nearly all VAGs, I find their engines more interesting than the cars they are in.

280lbft @ 1800rpm from a 2.0 petrol turbo is impressive, but unlike a diesel, it holds it to nearly 6000rpm. So the point of diesel again, is, erm?

Agreed. The latest TFSI is really amazing, a lot of torque around 2000 rpm but it pulls up to 6000+, even as stock.
I had the chance to test drive a S3 8V with a full exhaust and a MTM piggyback unit, it was pushing around 350 hp and it was the fastest 2.0 turbo I experienced in straight line, faster than an RS3 8P. No Evo or STI with the stock turbo is as quick from still IMHO. My Megane is a snail by comparison...but still more fun to throw around.

Renault Sport care about it's more focused drivers. VAG don't. Audi could charge £60K for this new TT and the same image conscious people would still buy it.

Shame really because with the VAG's technical know-how and enormous financial clout, they really could produce something remarkable if they wanted to. Even the R8 is known to be an under steer monster on track, and that nanny state VAGness has infected Lamborghini as well.

It's a corporate machine making decisions on behalf of it's customers. Yes, our customers love and want under steer, debate closed, decision made. Rubber stamp - dumphh.

I bet the new TT still uses the 'understeer bushes' in the front wishbones. Instead of solid rubber, they have voids in them which 'give' when you corner hard, causing the car to plough straight on. There was a fix for that with MK1 TTs, but I'm haven't studied the new platform yet.

I assumed the R8 was supposed to be pretty good? I'm sure EVO said it was better than the equivalent new 911. Mind you that was based on road handling rather than track.

[PorkRind]

Lost soul said:

Another driving god

Helpful !

Baryonyx said:

Thanks, it seems the barrier for entry is rather low these days! Back in the day you had to be Walter Rohrl, now you just have to complain about a turgid chassis on a performance car!

They make the cars for the worst common denominator don't they? Herein lies the problem !

[T0MMY]

scherzkeks said:

Do tell. Here's the old one dragging a Spec C around Tsukuba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDqIDcaan90

Erm...didn't the TTRS set the slowest lap time on that video, apart from the 370Z?

[Baryonyx]

Careful now, don't hurt Scherzkeks' feelings.

[T0MMY]

iloveboost said:

Most people will never experience a front end slide unless it's wet and they really misjudge a tight bend.

That might be true; if you're in that group a TT is a good choice. For the rest of us it probably isn't though, as you would be feeling that understeer every single time you drove the bloody thing.

[Lost soul]

scherzkeks said:

Baryonyx said:

... now you just have to complain about a turgid chassis on a performance car!

That you've merely read about, and in an article that would appear to be written by a child. I'd say this fits with the standard PH definition quite well.

[blank]

All this about nannying ESP and under steer is a bit worrying.

I have a mk2 TTS and can honestly say (ignoring playing in the snow) I've had the ESP or traction control kick in fewer than 10 times.

I've experienced "bad understeer" even fewer times.

You have to be pushing incredibly hard for it to do either in my experience. It really shouldn't be an issue for anyone on public roads.

[T0MMY]

scherzkeks said:

That you've merely read about, and in an article that would appear to be written by a child. I'd say this fits with the standard PH definition quite well.

I just remembered having a discussion with you before scherzkeks. You were the guy who thought it was faster on a racetrack to drive a car slow enough to not encounter its on limit behaviour weren't you?

If you never encounter how a car feels when you're pushing it hard, I'm not surprised you don't understand the criticism.

[kambites]

blank said:

All this about nannying ESP and under steer is a bit worrying.

I have a mk2 TTS and can honestly say (ignoring playing in the snow) I've had the ESP or traction control kick in fewer than 10 times.

I've experienced "bad understeer" even fewer times.

You have to be pushing incredibly hard for it to do either in my experience. It really shouldn't be an issue for anyone on public roads.

I think for me this is the biggest problem with the (4WD mk2) TT. It simply has too much grip in all circumstances to ever be any fun on the road. One of the better examples of why "fast" is often directly contradictory to "fun", IMO. It's a criticism you can level at most modern cars to one degree or another, but the TT is worst than most.

That, conbined with the fact that you get no feel through any of the controls, makes the whole thing slightly surreal and rather dull. From this review, it doesn't sound like the mk3 is any different which is perfectly sensible given how well the mk2 sold. I am not in the target demographic.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th September 17:10

[nickfrog]

scherzkeks said:

PJBTOV said:

The TT is simply a very good everyday sporty car.

It's a very good track car as well, particularly if you are interested in going fast.

scherzkeks said:

That you've merely read about, and in an article that would appear to be written by a child. I'd say this fits with the standard PH definition quite well.

Surely someone of your vast track experience, and presumably at the Ring, has met Dale before ? Surely you know exactly who he is ?

I have met him a few times and always got on with him. I have always been impressed by him as a person and a driver.

If you reckon he writes like a child, then I bow down to your knowledge and skills. So, I will respectfully ask again for the 11th time, when are you next at the Ring ? My next trip is in 3 week 2/3/4 Oct. It'd be great to see you in action and learn a few tricks.

Or, is it yet another of your projections? Have the drugs stopped working ?

I can't help thinking of this when I cone across one of your classic howlers... FLAT OUT

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 10th September 17:17

[nickfrog]

T0MMY said:

scherzkeks said:

That you've merely read about, and in an article that would appear to be written by a child. I'd say this fits with the standard PH definition quite well.

I just remembered having a discussion with you before scherzkeks. You were the guy who thought it was faster on a racetrack to drive a car slow enough to not encounter its on limit behaviour weren't you?

If you never encounter how a car feels when you're pushing it hard, I'm not surprised you don't understand the criticism.

It was a classic performance by scherzkeks indeed. But there have been quite a few since then. He really is a great source of entertainment...

[NelsonR32]

cerb4.5lee said:

Lost soul said:

HeMightBeBanned said:

What's so bad about Haldex?

nothing is wrong with Haldex , but the driving gods on here would consider anyone who drives a car with haldex homosexual

Haldex goes about its business pretty fine overall but for me personally I prefer the more rear biased Haldex on the R8 for example to the majority of the rest of the Audi range and other 4WD systems I have experienced do it better for me.

Probably already been pointed out but the R8 is not Haldex.

[Clivey]

kambites said:

I think for me this is the biggest problem with the (4WD mk2) TT. It simply has too much grip in all circumstances to ever be any fun on the road. One of the better examples of why "fast" is often directly contradictory to "fun", IMO. It's a criticism you can level at most modern cars to one degree or another, but the TT is worst than most.

I totally agree. - For a start, most new performance cars have far too much tyre & the limits are too high for the road when you've got blind corners, oncoming traffic etc. etc. to consider. Also, low profile tyres tend to make playing at the limit akin to poking a large, aggressive dog with a stick. At least with old cars, you can have your fun at more accessible speeds. Understeer is engineered in to the setup of new cars well before it should be rearing it's ugly head to allow drivers a "get out of jail free" card so that they don't have to deal with overstepping the mark at warp factor 9.