RE: Lotus boss Jean-Marc Gales: PH Meets (again)
Discussion
Europa1 said:
Chris Y said:
SUV's and crossovers clearly do not fit the Lotus brand in my eyes. Lotus = sports car!
People said that about Porsche when they launched the Cayenne, now it's their biggest moneyspinner. Despite being fugly.Let's be honest though, to turn things around, all Lotus need to do is put a car up for a competition on here...
kambites said:
In that case Lotus are doomed, because they haven't got one.
I rather suspect it's not true though. I think in their key markets (China and the US) fuel economy and CO2 are far less of a concern because the tax systems don't punish them quite so much. Apart from it's poor efficiency, I think the supercharged V6 is a fabulous engine for the application.
Trust me, China is not anywhere near one of their key markets...I rather suspect it's not true though. I think in their key markets (China and the US) fuel economy and CO2 are far less of a concern because the tax systems don't punish them quite so much. Apart from it's poor efficiency, I think the supercharged V6 is a fabulous engine for the application.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 8th October 13:52
With all due respect: IMHO Lotus needs a new Esprit more than ever. The Evora, as good as it is, is no "emotional halo-car", and something tells me, it'll never be. I simply don't get Lotus long-term product strategy, the Evora was a very brave adventure for Lotus at its time, the Esprit would have been a "safer bet" and more "in line" for historical reasons (see 911, 8-cylinder Ferrari, etc.). I can't put my finger on it why, but for some reason Lotus will never be recognized as a "full-sized" sports-car company, as long as they don't produce a car that competes with the current range of (911)Porsches and (V8)Ferrari. And there is enough room for them to place the car:
- simple engineering (as simple as possible! USP IMO)
- great handling
- lightweight (still a USP!)
- competitive price (just a bit below both of them)
- AND -
- striking design: Clear, edgy supercar looks (think of a Gallardo)
But maybe I'm biased. Cheers from a German Lotus fan.
- simple engineering (as simple as possible! USP IMO)
- great handling
- lightweight (still a USP!)
- competitive price (just a bit below both of them)
- AND -
- striking design: Clear, edgy supercar looks (think of a Gallardo)
But maybe I'm biased. Cheers from a German Lotus fan.
forester2945 said:
mrdemon said:
Evora needs a new engine to sell world wide it's a old nasty thing and def not the right engine for the exige either.
Not the right engine for the Exige? have you driven/seen one? 
ali_khl said:
kambites said:
In that case Lotus are doomed, because they haven't got one.
I rather suspect it's not true though. I think in their key markets (China and the US) fuel economy and CO2 are far less of a concern because the tax systems don't punish them quite so much. Apart from it's poor efficiency, I think the supercharged V6 is a fabulous engine for the application.
Trust me, China is not anywhere near one of their key markets...I rather suspect it's not true though. I think in their key markets (China and the US) fuel economy and CO2 are far less of a concern because the tax systems don't punish them quite so much. Apart from it's poor efficiency, I think the supercharged V6 is a fabulous engine for the application.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 8th October 13:52
Leading the sales is the Lotus Exige which accounts for around 39% sales and advanced orders, closely followed by the Lotus Elise and the Lotus Evora. Japan continues to be the leading market for Lotus sports car sales, followed closely by the UK, USA, Germany and France. The highest growth in sales was recorded in Japan, followed by Germany and France.
I admit to being a Lotus fanboy...
Firstly, totally accept the relatively high co2 band, but as for economy, running both my Evora S (390hp Komotec upgrade) or Exige S against my mates Boxster Spyder (340hp engine) over thousands of miles, both cars are more economical than the Porsche...about 5-10%, and he does not drive as hard as I do. This is on mixed touring journey`s...so motorways and blatts of twisty roads when they appear.
Boxster pricing...I nearly bought one before the Exige S and to have any reasonable spec you are looking at £55-60+K There is no doubt that in some areas the Porsche is a more highly polished and complete a car, but when it comes to driving (the whole point surely) both Lotus`s are far more rewarding...and easily faster, if you know how to drive them...or maybe that is just me (?), but I have test driven a recent Boxster S and did come away feeling a bit disengaged and disappointed. The Evora is a deceptively fast car, it may lack a little on the 0-60 pub talk stakes, but it can carry speed like very little else on the road. The Exige is just mental, although you can never have enough power!
The Toyota V6...yes I agree it is not the most exciting engine, but changing the exhaust and manifold to free it up makes a huge difference. The Evora with the Komotec free flow manifolds makes a spine tingling sound (positively screams). The Exige with the standard manifolds and a sports exhaust is meaty and bellows loudly, but I agree it is not the most exciting sound. Now an Alfa/Ferrari V6 or better still V8 would complete this package for me. Anyhow Rome was not built in a day. Other than above, I cannot see what is wrong with the engine...it may not be the latest flavour (so what) but it is bomb proof and well proven...more so than many rivals.
My missus works there and they are all facing the consultation and potential redundancy, other than a couple of departments. It is not good, but it is a commercial business and not a charity, so has to reduce its overhead in order to cut losses and hopefully turn profitable. There are a lot of very clever people there who have suffered from poor management and a lack of investment and they definitely have the ability to turn the products round where necessary. I for one cannot wait for the next Evora variant!
I cannot understand why people bash a UK manufacturer (ok Malaysian owned) who make a fantastic product (albeit a little compromised on some areas, but that is due to their racing heritage) and employ loads of people directly and indirectly in the UK??
As has been said before, get in one and drive it, you`ll be converted, but on the other hand don`t because residuals are strong, although conversely, the more people who switch, the more demand??
Firstly, totally accept the relatively high co2 band, but as for economy, running both my Evora S (390hp Komotec upgrade) or Exige S against my mates Boxster Spyder (340hp engine) over thousands of miles, both cars are more economical than the Porsche...about 5-10%, and he does not drive as hard as I do. This is on mixed touring journey`s...so motorways and blatts of twisty roads when they appear.
Boxster pricing...I nearly bought one before the Exige S and to have any reasonable spec you are looking at £55-60+K There is no doubt that in some areas the Porsche is a more highly polished and complete a car, but when it comes to driving (the whole point surely) both Lotus`s are far more rewarding...and easily faster, if you know how to drive them...or maybe that is just me (?), but I have test driven a recent Boxster S and did come away feeling a bit disengaged and disappointed. The Evora is a deceptively fast car, it may lack a little on the 0-60 pub talk stakes, but it can carry speed like very little else on the road. The Exige is just mental, although you can never have enough power!
The Toyota V6...yes I agree it is not the most exciting engine, but changing the exhaust and manifold to free it up makes a huge difference. The Evora with the Komotec free flow manifolds makes a spine tingling sound (positively screams). The Exige with the standard manifolds and a sports exhaust is meaty and bellows loudly, but I agree it is not the most exciting sound. Now an Alfa/Ferrari V6 or better still V8 would complete this package for me. Anyhow Rome was not built in a day. Other than above, I cannot see what is wrong with the engine...it may not be the latest flavour (so what) but it is bomb proof and well proven...more so than many rivals.
My missus works there and they are all facing the consultation and potential redundancy, other than a couple of departments. It is not good, but it is a commercial business and not a charity, so has to reduce its overhead in order to cut losses and hopefully turn profitable. There are a lot of very clever people there who have suffered from poor management and a lack of investment and they definitely have the ability to turn the products round where necessary. I for one cannot wait for the next Evora variant!
I cannot understand why people bash a UK manufacturer (ok Malaysian owned) who make a fantastic product (albeit a little compromised on some areas, but that is due to their racing heritage) and employ loads of people directly and indirectly in the UK??
As has been said before, get in one and drive it, you`ll be converted, but on the other hand don`t because residuals are strong, although conversely, the more people who switch, the more demand??
Alot of people were critical of DB because he was all showbiz and great ideas. According to him there was also money avaialble to implement the plan he came up with until the parent company was purchased.
I tend to believe him. It would be pointless to make that kind of entrance with no actual backing. Lotus needed, money and real vision to banish the hand to mouth, inconsistent past to the bin.
Lotus really needs a new Esprit. This is the car that inspires people, boys and can be shown off. The Evora is just not it. Although clearly a very capable car, it looks awrkward.
Presumably is does not help that Lorus F1 has also be sold off, screwed about whith and although a seperate company many will still make the connection and lets face it when people saw Senna driving the 98T, this was about as much of a halo as any car company needed.
it all sounds a bit pedestrian and hand to mouth again. Perhaps the best combination for Lotus would have been both these two in the company. Bahr as Chairman and Gales as MD.
Time will tell as usual with Lotus.
I tend to believe him. It would be pointless to make that kind of entrance with no actual backing. Lotus needed, money and real vision to banish the hand to mouth, inconsistent past to the bin.
Lotus really needs a new Esprit. This is the car that inspires people, boys and can be shown off. The Evora is just not it. Although clearly a very capable car, it looks awrkward.
Presumably is does not help that Lorus F1 has also be sold off, screwed about whith and although a seperate company many will still make the connection and lets face it when people saw Senna driving the 98T, this was about as much of a halo as any car company needed.
it all sounds a bit pedestrian and hand to mouth again. Perhaps the best combination for Lotus would have been both these two in the company. Bahr as Chairman and Gales as MD.
Time will tell as usual with Lotus.
mrdemon said:
Evora needs a new engine to sell world wide it's a old nasty thing and def not the right engine for the exige either.
Errm, its not nasty at all, even in n/a form its torquey from low down in the rev range and revs freely up the the redline. I cant think of a single review that I have read or seen that describes it as nasty, and change the exhaust or buy a post 2012 car and it sounds great.(ps. n/a Evora was faster around the Top Gear test track than an Gallardo - even though the Evora engine is "nasty"
)The funny thing about the Evora engine in the marketplace, is that it's getting (relatively) nicer as much of the competition gradually switch to turbocharged lumps. Unfortunately it's also getting relatively less economical.
It would be interesting to see a decent set of real-world figures comparing the economy of the Evora S and Cayman S, ideally driven by the same driver on the same route - how much of the problem is real differences in economy and how much is Lotus's lack of ability to tune their cars to the official test?
It would be interesting to see a decent set of real-world figures comparing the economy of the Evora S and Cayman S, ideally driven by the same driver on the same route - how much of the problem is real differences in economy and how much is Lotus's lack of ability to tune their cars to the official test?
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 8th October 15:15
I have said it before, but if they simply rebody the Evora to look like the Bahar-era 2+2 Elan concept, they will double their sales. It seems so damned obvious. Just pony up the cash and do it.
People will quit worrying about a few horsepower or wide sills if it looked like this: http://www.hdcarwallpapers.com/lotus_elan_concept_...
People will quit worrying about a few horsepower or wide sills if it looked like this: http://www.hdcarwallpapers.com/lotus_elan_concept_...
tram50 said:
forester2945 said:
mrdemon said:
Evora needs a new engine to sell world wide it's a old nasty thing and def not the right engine for the exige either.
Not the right engine for the Exige? have you driven/seen one? (standby for a second flaming) Frimley111R said:
I don't really understand why people harp on about the engine. Sure, its not the cleanest but what else is wrong with? Plenty of power, sounds good ... what else do you want?
Indeed they wouldn't say that if they were in the driving seat cruising along late last night it was just a joy to hear the engine its a dream and one of the nicest cars I have ownedGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff