RE: Lotus boss Jean-Marc Gales: PH Meets (again)

[mrdemon]

Kolbenkopp said:

Not sure if I understand that. Do you want to tell us that the ring isn't your benchmark of choice, or that you find the Exige's laptimes to slow?

I had a GT3 at the time I test drove the V6 Exige and it did not blow me away and understeered like a pig.
I am not a Porsche fan boy, I dislike the GT3 and it makes a poor road car, and the modern cars lack feel also as some have said.

As I said I am sure a geo can fix that, as for ring times for a GT3 beating car , because that's who it's aimed at, it's only matching times from GT3's back in 1999
the ring time on the Exige is lacking some what for some reason

7.53 is a slow ring time, SLower than my CSL I had 8 years ago, I guess that why they bought out the CUP quite fast, but it's too expensive and too like my old exige in side to part with £67k

hardy toll posts, I am a Lotus fan, owned and driven them for 5 years,enjoyed my time in them, but things have moved on, they don't make a great car now and that shows in sales.

Be fan boys all you like, but the cars are not selling and the Exige is not that fast vs what's out there now days for lap times.

It's crazy a box standard Cayman GTS on road tyres can do a faster ring time than Lotus's top track car on track tyres.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 9th October 09:10

[SidewaysSi]

mrdemon said:

I had a GT3 at the time I test drove the V6 Exige and it did not blow me away and understeered like a pig.
I am not a Porsche fan boy, I dislike the GT3 and it makes a poor road car, and the modern cars lack feel also as some have said.

As I said I am sure a geo can fix that, as for ring times for a GT3 beating car , because that's who it's aimed at, it's only matching times from GT3's back in 1999
the ring time on the Exige is lacking some what for some reason

7.53 is a slow ring time, SLower than my CSL I had 8 years ago, I guess that why they bought out the CUP quite fast, but it's too expensive and too like my old exige in side to part with £67k

hardy toll posts, I am a Lotus fan, owned and driven them for 5 years,enjoyed my time in them, but things have moved on, they don't make a great car now and that shows in sales.

Be fan boys all you like, but the cars are not selling and the Exige is not that fast vs what's out there now days for lap times.

It's crazy a box standard Cayman GTS on road tyres can do a faster ring time than Lotus's top track car on track tyres.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 9th October 09:10

If I wanted to spend £60k+ on a fast track car that can be used every day, a new Porsche wouldn't get a look in with the Exige Cup around.

The V6 car is very different to the S2 car. More comfortable than most on the road with stunning handling and feel. The fact it is a few secs a lap slower is of no consequence for me.

[Chipmunk1]

The problem with lotus is they are not cool, that might not matter to most on here, but I'm afraid IT does matter when your selling something

Ferrari, Porsche, M power, AMG power is cool, and Lotus is seen as the geeky kid by the people who have the money to buy a Lotus

[Toaster]

mrdemon said:

zebedee said:

Co2 and mpg would be offset fairly quickly I would have thought bearing in mind the reliability and maintenance costs of a Toyota lump compared with a Porsche unit

had my car 2.5 years and 1 service with no faults, Porsche do 20k service intervals it's very cheap to run.

the EVora has to be serviced double that and I bet costs more to do so.

The Evora is not that expensive a 4 year major service has just cost me £480 the same as a Minor service on a Porsche.

Not all Porsche owners think the cost of a minor service is reasonable £480 plus £160 for Brake fluid change http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I think you need a more reasons argument to say its 'cheaper' to run.

Edited by Toaster on Thursday 9th October 10:12

[mrdemon]

Toaster said:

The Evora is not that expensive a 4 year major service has just cost me £480 the same as a Minor service on a Porsche, but of course as a Porsch owner

Not all Porsche owners think the cost of a minor service is reasonable £480 plus £160 for Brake fluid change http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I think you need a more reasons argument to say its 'cheaper' to run.

I did not pay that,I get 20% + off at Porsche and it's 20k miles intervals, I think I pay £35 for a brake fluid change, why use Porsche for that ?
the Evora is ever year yes or every 10k? then as I said double the TAX and far less mpg.

Fan boys will be fan boys, facts are UK are not buying EVORA's and there are a few reason why, and is not because it's slow.
Making it faster like the new boss wants is NOT going to sell cars. Porsche will have the 4 pot 400BHP turbo's out soon.
And while I am not a fan of a 4 pot turbo, it will do more MPG and be even faster and cost even less to tax.

I don't hate the car I just think Lotus could build a great car, the Evora is like a car from 2005 and it would be class leading back then, today it's not and sales reflect that.

[bobo]

once they dial out russell carrs styling on the evora make it look more exotic/aggressive, up the hp and change the interior (which is most of what what their new Frenchman is proposing) the evora will go like hotcakes.....

fundamentally its a v v good car.

depending on the revised styling package (if they do that!) i would have one

[mrdemon]

SidewaysSi said:

If I wanted to spend £60k+ on a fast track car that can be used every day, a new Porsche wouldn't get a look in with the Exige Cup around.

The V6 car is very different to the S2 car. More comfortable than most on the road with stunning handling and feel. The fact it is a few secs a lap slower is of no consequence for me.

I know it old VS new but most people with 60K who want a fast track car that can be used every day would choose a 997.1 GT3, sad facts...

yes Lotus can sell a few cars, but Lotus need to sell triple the amount they are selling.

the markets very very small for the CUP V6, the ones listed are not selling, I know I have been tempted with that toxic Green one ;-)

but at that price I may as well Visit the motorsport Dept and have a custom build car, like I did with my Elise.

[SidewaysSi]

mrdemon said:

I did not pay that,I get 20% + off at Porsche and it's 20k miles intervals, I think I pay £35 for a brake fluid change, why use Porsche for that ?
the Evora is ever year yes or every 10k? then as I said double the TAX and far less mpg.

Fan boys will be fan boys, facts are UK are not buying EVORA's and there are a few reason why, and is not because it's slow.
Making it faster like the new boss wants is NOT going to sell cars. Porsche will have the 4 pot 400BHP turbo's out soon.
And while I am not a fan of a 4 pot turbo, it will do more MPG and be even faster and cost even less to tax.

I don't hate the car I just think Lotus could build a great car, the Evora is like a car from 2005 and it would be class leading back then, today it's not and sales reflect that.

All things remaining the same, do you think if the Evora was "class leading", sales would suddenly rocket?

I think it has more to do with ease of use, image, dealers etc.

[Esseesse]

Chipmunk1 said:

The problem with lotus is they are not cool, that might not matter to most on here, but I'm afraid IT does matter when your selling something

Ferrari, Porsche, M power, AMG power is cool, and Lotus is seen as the geeky kid by the people who have the money to buy a Lotus

http://www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?sto...
http://www.pistonheads.com/lotus/default.asp?story...

Although he seemed to not be able to fit his ambition to the budget, I don't think Dany Bahar was too far wrong. Just needed to do it a car at a time.

[bobo]

mrdemon said:

I know it old VS new but most people with 60K who want a fast track car that can be used every day would choose a 997.1 GT3, sad facts...

yes Lotus can sell a few cars, but Lotus need to sell triple the amount they are selling.

the markets very very small for the CUP V6, the ones listed are not selling, I know I have been tempted with that toxic Green one ;-)

but at that price I may as well Visit the motorsport Dept and have a custom build car, like I did with my Elise.

i had a custom built car. s1 exige k20a. sure, total cost cheaper than my exige v6s but thats where it stops! my v6 is quicker on track (a tad less fun) but usable every day, has very good road manners, and can be taken on european tours in relative comfort and cost buttons to run for its performance, it also looks like an exotic and is rare as hell and in a custom colour (thanks hethel). the 996/997 gt3 doesnt have that balance or feel and costs a fortune to run.

theres a reason the car won joint ECOTY with a pagani. simply put theres nothing with the blend that it has. the revised evora can get the same blend with the proposed amendments IF they get the styling right this time.

weak argument demon.

Edited by bobo on Thursday 9th October 10:39

[Esseesse]

SidewaysSi said:

All things remaining the same, do you think if the Evora was "class leading", sales would suddenly rocket?

I think it has more to do with ease of use, image, dealers etc.

Whose engines do Lotus use? Is it an impossibility that a service agreement couldn't come about with their engine supplier? 'You can have your Lotus serviced at any Ford dealer' would not be a bad selling point IMO.

[bobo]

Esseesse said:

Whose engines do Lotus use? Is it an impossibility that a service agreement couldn't come about with their engine supplier? 'You can have your Lotus serviced at any Ford dealer' would not be a bad selling point IMO.

my friendly lotus dealer collects and drops my car off for peanuts. im in north london and they are in surrey .... a tortuous journey.

what's the problem? frankly maybe more lotus dealers should offer the same level of service.... i know who im going to buy the next gen exige/evora from.

[braddo]

mrdemon said:

ring times
ring time
ring time,
lap times
ring time

Funny how ring times seem to be so important to you when talking about Caymans and Lotuses, but when talking about Caymans and GT3s you only bang on about the Evo video at Blyton Park.

I could switch your examples and say the Cayman is too slow "in the real world" because the GT3 is faster around the ring and the Exige is faster around every track in the UK.

Your arguments are inconsistent depending on where you posting (anti-GT3 or anti-Lotus) so it's hardly surprising you are constantly being called a troll.

I can't see how 300hp/ton (not him ) can be called slow in the real world in any circumstance.

[Toaster]

mrdemon said:

I did not pay that,I get 20% + off at Porsche and it's 20k miles intervals, I think I pay £35 for a brake fluid change, why use Porsche for that ?
the Evora is ever year yes or every 10k? then as I said double the TAX and far less mpg.

Fan boys will be fan boys, facts are UK are not buying EVORA's and there are a few reason why, and is not because it's slow.
Making it faster like the new boss wants is NOT going to sell cars. Porsche will have the 4 pot 400BHP turbo's out soon.
And while I am not a fan of a 4 pot turbo, it will do more MPG and be even faster and cost even less to tax.

I don't hate the car I just think Lotus could build a great car, the Evora is like a car from 2005 and it would be class leading back then, today it's not and sales reflect that.

Your arguments are fundamentally Flawed

Sometimes the Lotus is quicker and sometimes slower than a Porker http://fastestlaps.com/cars/lotus_evora.html

And a Random Porsche http://fastestlaps.com/cars/porsche_987_boxster_s_... OMG it says that a VW Golf is quicker !!

In the real world who cares?

but when you come to a forum and basically try and undermine the manufacture (whatever one) others see your comments not as insightful but rather...... well I will let others choose the wording because of what has been previously highlighted from others.

Over all the running costs over say 5-6 years may not be dissimilar but who cares and if you do your shouldn't be buying this type of car anyway.

So Porsche Boy go and plague the Porsche Forum with your negativity

[B10]

Lotus. Sort your dreadful website out and have some prices on there for your cars please!
Answer emails to customer services!!
That might be a start.

[Impasse]

Evora S IPS Sports Racer review

[kbf1981]

mrdemon said:

Faster is NOT better, it needs a new engine and a lower price that's all.

car is a dead horse until they get the co2 below 220.

cutting the roof off or having thinner sills is a non issue.

just make a nice car !!!!

the 991GTS runs 430BHP and runs a 224 CO2 low tax band !!!

I think you're wrong. I just bought an Exige V6. Could have bought a 997, Boxster, Cayman etc.... it's a great car. Soooo fast, and very pure. What else can I buy that does what the Exige V6 does for £60k or less?

Second hand Gt3 or 360 is about where you're looking.

Honestly though, great car, silly fast, very well built, feels very solid, just crazy fast and round bends I doubt anything would catch it on a tight track.

[kbf1981]

mrdemon said:

Kolbenkopp said:

Not sure if I understand that. Do you want to tell us that the ring isn't your benchmark of choice, or that you find the Exige's laptimes to slow?

I had a GT3 at the time I test drove the V6 Exige and it did not blow me away and understeered like a pig.
I am not a Porsche fan boy, I dislike the GT3 and it makes a poor road car, and the modern cars lack feel also as some have said.

As I said I am sure a geo can fix that, as for ring times for a GT3 beating car , because that's who it's aimed at, it's only matching times from GT3's back in 1999
the ring time on the Exige is lacking some what for some reason

7.53 is a slow ring time, SLower than my CSL I had 8 years ago, I guess that why they bought out the CUP quite fast, but it's too expensive and too like my old exige in side to part with £67k

hardy toll posts, I am a Lotus fan, owned and driven them for 5 years,enjoyed my time in them, but things have moved on, they don't make a great car now and that shows in sales.

Be fan boys all you like, but the cars are not selling and the Exige is not that fast vs what's out there now days for lap times.

It's crazy a box standard Cayman GTS on road tyres can do a faster ring time than Lotus's top track car on track tyres.

Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 9th October 09:10

The ring is a power track. 500hp saloons do very well on it, but would do bad on a tighter, twistier track. Have you seen the Autocar dry circuit?

It did 1min11.10 from memory - same time as a lexus LFA! And the new M4? 1min12.50....

So it's a very fast car. The ring is one circuit, and suits some cars better than others. Take an Atom on there and you'll lose to a GTR, but in real life and Atom is far faster on track if you know what you're doing. And... both the Atom and V6 will be able to lap all day without new tyres, brakes etc.

[marshalla]

Esseesse said:

SidewaysSi said:

All things remaining the same, do you think if the Evora was "class leading", sales would suddenly rocket?

I think it has more to do with ease of use, image, dealers etc.

Whose engines do Lotus use? Is it an impossibility that a service agreement couldn't come about with their engine supplier? 'You can have your Lotus serviced at any Ford dealer' would not be a bad selling point IMO.

Company owned by Proton, uses Toyota engines, has its own dealer network.

So - Proton, Toyota or the guys who actually sell the cars for you (and have an incentive to do it since they get income from servicing and potential for repeat sales) ? Which image do you want to project ? Proper car company or kit car which can be serviced by someone who supplies a few of the parts ?

[chrispj]

If you could get an Elise/Evora serviced at the local Toyota dealer and get an official stamp in the logbook then that probably would help overcome people's reluctance. As would being able to buy a Lotus at more than maybe 10 places in the whole of the country. From where I am in Exeter it's at least a 1 1/2 hour trip to the nearest official dealer (Poole or Bristol) so I get my Elise looked after by a tiny little independent that always has a few interesting sports cars in. If I was worried about not having an offical dealer service history then I would probably have ended up with a Porsche instead simply as they have a dealer nearby. To own a Lotus at the moment you really have to be keen to travel to a dealer and that as much as anything else is going put Joe Bloggs off, if you want a normal experience like you would get with buying and servicing any other major car brand then Lotus won't even register as an option.