RE: Lotus boss Jean-Marc Gales: PH Meets (again)

[kambites]

One of Southampton's Toyota dealers has recently taken on a Lotus franchise.

[DonkeyApple]

Chris Y said:

SUV's and crossovers clearly do not fit the Lotus brand in my eyes. Lotus = sports car!

Porsche still means sportscar so have shown that you can deliver high margin, volume products and maintain heritage.

Lotus can not and never will be a profitable business just selling sportscars. The market isn't large enough for them to reach sustainable profitability in that sector so they have to seriously consider accessing mainstream, higher volume sectors.

[DonkeyApple]

But can you keep producing cars under that price point - are cheaper models loss leaders?
"Certainly not. We don't lose on any of our cars, that's not a philosophy I subscribe to. If you sell a car you need to make some money out of it. However there is a demand especially in Japan for the Elise 1.6 and we will satisfy that demand, there's no need to drop that one. But we're certainly going to have in the future more high-powered versions in the range, because that's the general trend as well."

Yet I've seen your accounts and you lose money on every single car that you sell so there is an interesting interpretation as to what profit means.

[justin220]

The Evora is a fantastic car. Absolutely superb all rounder. I owned an Orange one for over three years and really regret selling it.

I've moved into a Vantage, but was very close to a deal on a Sport Racer Evora. I'm patiently waiting to see what the update looks like.. (face lift I believe)

Dealer wise, Lotus in Edinburgh are genuinely the best dealership I've ever dealt with. So much so I would happily go back time and time again.

I think someone earlier had a good point, people spending 50-80k want the image, which I'm not sure Lotus has. Personally I think Lotus has much more kudos but don't think the general public see it the same way. We have a new Elise CR in the work car park and it's easily the coolest car there, amongst the sea of porsche badges.


The Evora does not photo well, but in the metal, it looks properly junior supercar. so much presence on the road, much like the Exiges

[blueg33]

Even my Evora in its conservative Storm Titanium gets plenty of very positive comments from random people pretty much everytime I use it, which is daily.

Small boys point and give you the thumbs up, strangers come up to you at petrol station and even ladies make positive comments.

The Evora is a head turner for sure.

Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 9th October 20:33

[marshalla]

justin220 said:

Evora does not photo well, but in the metal, it looks properly junior supercar. so much presence on the road, much like the Exiges

metal ? Did you get a Bahar special ?

[peter450]

So the new plan is to go back to the old plan

[justin220]

marshalla said:

metal ? Did you get a Bahar special ?

[mrdemon]

Toaster said:

Your arguments are fundamentally Flawed

Sometimes the Lotus is quicker and sometimes slower than a Porker http://fastestlaps.com/cars/lotus_evora.html

And a Random Porsche http://fastestlaps.com/cars/porsche_987_boxster_s_... OMG it says that a VW Golf is quicker !!

In the real world who cares?

but when you come to a forum and basically try and undermine the manufacture (whatever one) others see your comments not as insightful but rather...... well I will let others choose the wording because of what has been previously highlighted from others.

Over all the running costs over say 5-6 years may not be dissimilar but who cares and if you do your shouldn't be buying this type of car anyway.

So Porsche Boy go and plague the Porsche Forum with your negativity

Who cares, I did say making the Evora faster will not make more sales which is what the new boss wants.

To many blinkers on here, but that's to be expected.

[mrdemon]

bobo said:

i had a custom built car. s1 exige k20a. sure, total cost cheaper than my exige v6s but thats where it stops! my v6 is quicker on track (a tad less fun) but usable every day, has very good road manners, and can be taken on european tours in relative comfort and cost buttons to run for its performance, it also looks like an exotic and is rare as hell and in a custom colour (thanks hethel). the 996/997 gt3 doesnt have that balance or feel and costs a fortune to run.

theres a reason the car won joint ECOTY with a pagani. simply put theres nothing with the blend that it has. the revised evora can get the same blend with the proposed amendments IF they get the styling right this time.

weak argument demon.

Edited by bobo on Thursday 9th October 10:39

I am not really knocking the V6 Exige that much (I fancy a CUP one myself), my issues are with the Evora mainly , but at the end of the day the Exige weighs too much and has a old engine. 1200kg for a Exige with AC is over weight when the new Audi TT weighs less !!!

[Toaster]

mrdemon said:

I am not really knocking the V6 Exige that much (I fancy a CUP one myself), my issues are with the Evora mainly , but at the end of the day the Exige weighs too much and has a old engine. 1200kg for a Exige with AC is over weight when the new Audi TT weighs less !!!

Pick and choose your flawed arguments carefully Bat man according to the Audi web site the TT 0-60 is 7.2 for the TDI and 5.2 for the TFSI.......the Evora is 4.8 for the NA the 'heavy' exige is 3.8.........Yawn

Edited by Toaster on Friday 10th October 10:14

[Chipmunk1]

I agree making it faster won't sell more cars, they need to look at how Jag turned, and are still turning their image around, if they do that the sales will come, like they have with Jag

[mrdemon]

Toaster said:

Pick and choose your flawed arguments carefully Bat man according to the Audi web site the TT 0-60 is 7.2 for the TDI and 5.2 for the TFSI.......the Evora is 4.8 for the NA the 'heavy' exige is 3.8.........Yawn

Edited by Toaster on Friday 10th October 10:14

are you on drugs ?

when has that been my argument lol forums ffs.

[gm77]

It's Pistonheads Top Trumps! Where do I sign up?

Seriously though, all cars are compromised. It's just a case of finding the one that works best with you as an individual. It's the whole package that is relevant, not individual aspects.

Rather depressingly, car fans are a dying breed so in the future the success of the cars that we all aspire to own will be dependent on how their manufacturers pander to the masses by adding technology that the traditionalist doesn't really want. Lotus is one of the few that hasn't fully embraced these technological advancements (most likely due to lack of budget rather than choice) but I for one am grateful and have put my money where my mouth is. Ferrari is now dead to me with no manual option, and the 911 has gone the same way in relation to the versions that I would ever consider. Lamborghini also. I expect the R8 will shortly go the same way.

I personally don't want a faster car, I want a more fun one.

It's all downhill from now on!

[forester2945]

All I can add is Lotus will get my deposit on an Exige S Roadster in Nightfall Blue within the next month.

A manual car with unassisted steering. A car almostl completely focused on driving. I may track the car once in a blue moon and could not care less weather an Audi TT could lap the ring faster (maybe on your playstation).

On each of the test drives I was smiling so hard it hurt. Even a few days ago in the driving rain with standing water. For me the fact that the car will make me smile every time I see it is exactly what I want it to do.

The boxster, GT86, Golf R, 370z were all great cars (and were my shortlist along with a wildcard of a very leggy Aston V8) but none came close to the making me smile factor.

Moving from an Elise 111R the steering is noticeable heavier at crawling speeds, but the power is addictive and I am completely sold.

To quote Fry from Futurama - 'shut up and take my money'

Now to tell the wife

[forester2945]

mrdemon said:

I am not really knocking the V6 Exige that much (I fancy a CUP one myself), my issues are with the Evora mainly , but at the end of the day the Exige weighs too much and has a old engine. 1200kg for a Exige with AC is over weight when the new Audi TT weighs less !!!

Audi TT 1335kg by my maths that is more than 1200kg

'the trouble with quotes from the internet is they are impossible to prove' -Abraham Lincoln

And that is straitht from the audi website and dry weight.

[braddo]

I saw an article earlier today that stated 1230kg for the 4-cyl petrol TT (presumably FWD). Impressively light if it's the case, but of absolutely zero relevance to a 345hp supercharged V6 Exige!

[Kolbenkopp]

kambites said:

One of Southampton's Toyota dealers has recently taken on a Lotus franchise.

Would be ace if they could form some sort of true partnership with Toyota. Not sure if either party is interested though. I'm lucky to have a dealer nearby, but they aren't exactly many in Germany (7 or so for the whole country :-/). Apart from the convenience, it sucks having no choice in case they exploit their local monopoly (which sadly happens).

Two unrelated observations:

• Apparently, they hired Scott Walker (of http://www.scottwalkers.co.uk/ fame) as UK Sales Manager. Never met the guy, but have not read a single bad word and quite a lot of praise for his work. He seems to have quite a good reputation, so sounds like a good choice from Mr. Gales again.

• For what it's worth, really like it when PH covers UK sports car brands. I wish you guys would use your understanding of the cars and the access to the people in charge more often. A unique advantage compared to non UK sites. IMVH opinion, you are not using that often enough. Zenos Sunday service a great idea e.g., but where's the E10 test drive? Must have been a way to talk you into that car by now.

[Kolbenkopp]

mrdemon said:

7.53 is a slow ring time, SLower than my CSL I had 8 years ago, I guess that why they bought out the CUP quite fast, but it's too expensive and too like my old exige in side to part with £67k

You seem to pretty exigent (sorry ) regarding ring times. Up to you of course, but IMVHO that benchmark needs to be seen with a lot of context. Track conditions and temps at time of test, driver and driver preference, tyres, gearbox type, number of runs... The list goes on and on. And it says nothing about what the car is like to drive (which matters more to most).

But just to play along, more top trumps, also with data from Sport Auto:

.	M3 CSL	991 GT3	Exige
Power (PS)	360	476	350
Weight (kg as tested, full tank)	1421	1448	1162
0-200 km/h	16,7	11,9	14,2
18m Slalom (km/h)	70.5	75.1	73.7
Ring (time)	7.50	7.32	7.53
Hockenheim (time)	1.13.5	1.09.6	1.11.3
200-0 (m)	129.7	129.8	124.9
Price*	102359	155825	75810

• Inflation adjusted, as tested

Even if one would buy just the hard stats (which is not clever IMO), the Exige looks like very good value.

[kbf1981]

Kolbenkopp said:

But just to play along, more top trumps, also with data from Sport Auto:

.	M3 CSL	991 GT3	Exige
Power (PS)	360	476	350
Weight (kg as tested, full tank)	1421	1448	1162
0-200 km/h	16,7	11,9	14,2
18m Slalom (km/h)	70.5	75.1	73.7
Ring (time)	7.50	7.32	7.53
Hockenheim (time)	1.13.5	1.09.6	1.11.3
200-0 (m)	129.7	129.8	124.9
Price*	102359	155825	75810

• Inflation adjusted, as tested

Even if one would buy just the hard stats (which is not clever IMO), the Exige looks like very good value.

Bear in mind it's a manual unlike the 2 above. That 0-200 time would be what, 1-2 seconds lower? The exige v6 has to change gear twice to get to 200kmph from memory (not sure, I know you change from first to second to hit 60, maybe it has to change 2-3 times without going out for a drive and checking).

Look at that braking time. Imagine that coming into a tight corner. They are stronger than any brakes I've experienced anywhere else (look at my car history). My Exige V6 has the twin plate brakes but still, my 430 had ceramics, and I'd say the Exige stops significantly faster.

From actual experience, around corners, country lanes etc... you'd waste things in a V6 Exige.