"I don't do enough miles to justify buying a diesel"
Discussion
Raman Kandola said:
spats said:
I would go for the PD 1.9tdi all day long. I drive 12 miles each way and the journey is mainly 50mph roads with traffic, and a little bit of 70mph with no traffic but a few roundabouts thrown in.
I average real world (not off the mpg screen) 42mpg+ in our old Golf and about the same in our A4, both with the 1.9tdi. Heating up doesnt take long and theres enough points during the trip to open the vanes on the turbo to stop them sticking. My last car was a petrol and I got 27mpg on the very same trip.
Stick with the 115-130bhp 1.9's and as long as the oil/cambelt/water pump is changed and its given a good blast it should be a good car.
+1I average real world (not off the mpg screen) 42mpg+ in our old Golf and about the same in our A4, both with the 1.9tdi. Heating up doesnt take long and theres enough points during the trip to open the vanes on the turbo to stop them sticking. My last car was a petrol and I got 27mpg on the very same trip.
Stick with the 115-130bhp 1.9's and as long as the oil/cambelt/water pump is changed and its given a good blast it should be a good car.
Im going to actually switch to a RWD petrol just so i can have a more fun thing to drive however as people have said before avoid dpf and go with an older 1.9, much more solid and bombproof than the 2.0 equivalent vag motor
king awful engine. Sounds like a bag of spanners, pumps soot out the exhaust and has a minuscule powerband. These are very good reasons why manufacturers have worked hard improving these attributes in diesel engines over the last 10 years.I agree with what's already been mentioned, less than 15k a year I'd say go petrol if you like petrols.
i do about 35k a year so the dpf isnt an issue ,and i love the way a meaty diesel drives.i don't however like dual mass flywheels and the fact my last audi was trying to spit one out after only 20k miles. Pathetic.
i do about 35k a year so the dpf isnt an issue ,and i love the way a meaty diesel drives.i don't however like dual mass flywheels and the fact my last audi was trying to spit one out after only 20k miles. Pathetic.
its also about what type of driving you do.
75% of the shiny MPG figures are from motorway work which balances out woeful town figures
even if you do 30,000 a year but these are all round town then you are still better off with a petrol.
Its the same as trying to explain to someone that the Honda Hybrid system is next to useless if you do lots of long motorway runs.
75% of the shiny MPG figures are from motorway work which balances out woeful town figures
even if you do 30,000 a year but these are all round town then you are still better off with a petrol.
Its the same as trying to explain to someone that the Honda Hybrid system is next to useless if you do lots of long motorway runs.
Fastdruid said:
The Galaxy Titanium TDCI140 I had for ~3weeks didn't seem to. At least it didn't even start to get mildly warm until ~6-7miles of motorway (and seeing this was all of about 1-2 miles before I got home I spent most of the journey freezing).
In comparison my petrol is starting to get a hint of warmth within a mile.
Of course a better spec car (than the Galaxy I had) would have heated seats so heating then is not as important.
There's a supplementary electric heater in the cooling system. Quick Google says it works at "low ambient" temps, whatever that means. In comparison my petrol is starting to get a hint of warmth within a mile.
Of course a better spec car (than the Galaxy I had) would have heated seats so heating then is not as important.
The one in my Merc works below 8C, and it has to be selected in the cluster control to off, off with a/c button (so turning the a/c off would turn the heater off) or auto - maybe the Ford one is similar?
There has to be some kind of assistance as modern diesels are so efficient they'd never warm up on their own in very cold weather - which is indeed what happens when the heater fails.
Chopped in my V70t for a V70 D5, economy jumped from an average of 23.5 to 43.5. Our lass uses it most of the time to drive to her work, three miles there and the same back. Very rare it gets a long run, but neither of us miss the petrol one, and compared to the 2.4t the diesel has a much better spread of power across the rev range.
My friend has just chopped his lease A4 2.0 tdi for an S5 2.0 tdi. I told him I'd just bought a petrol V8. 'Oh I do too many miles for that', he said. 'How many?', I asked. 'About 12,000/year'. So he saves maybe £1200 a year in fuel compared to my V8, but then he's paying £4,800/year for the PCP.
406highlander said:
My understanding of this may be flawed; I don't own or drive a diesel. But here goes:
Diesels (especially modern diesels) are fitted with particulate filters (part of the exhaust system, fitted between the exhaust manifold and the catalytic converter), in an effort to cut down on harmful carcinogenic (cancer-causing) emissions.
The filter will, over time, clog up - were it not for the regeneration process. This is usually an additive fluid system which is automatically added to the fuel supply so that it raises the exhaust temperature. The raised temperature causes the particulate filter to burn off the excess crap that accumulates there.
Unfortunately, the regeneration process is triggered by temperature. If the car doesn't get up to temperature, the regeneration process never takes place, and the car will choke and enter "limp home" mode - engine management light lit, call the AA/RAC/Green Flag/Whoever. £££.
If you don't drive big enough distances, your diesel car will clog up and die.
Petrol is better for shorter journeys because it warms up quicker. Particulate filters will eventually come to petrol engines by way of EU regulations - but when they do, petrol engines will reach running temperature more quickly than diesels, and the particulate filter regeneration will happen much more often.
I've never quite got the whole regen part of the DPF. So the filter sits there happily collecting all those nasty particulates and cancer causing bits of crap. Some time later when its blocked we inject a cleaner and the high temp causes those bits to burn off - don't they just end up out of the exhaust anyway, albeit now in a different form?Diesels (especially modern diesels) are fitted with particulate filters (part of the exhaust system, fitted between the exhaust manifold and the catalytic converter), in an effort to cut down on harmful carcinogenic (cancer-causing) emissions.
The filter will, over time, clog up - were it not for the regeneration process. This is usually an additive fluid system which is automatically added to the fuel supply so that it raises the exhaust temperature. The raised temperature causes the particulate filter to burn off the excess crap that accumulates there.
Unfortunately, the regeneration process is triggered by temperature. If the car doesn't get up to temperature, the regeneration process never takes place, and the car will choke and enter "limp home" mode - engine management light lit, call the AA/RAC/Green Flag/Whoever. £££.
If you don't drive big enough distances, your diesel car will clog up and die.
Petrol is better for shorter journeys because it warms up quicker. Particulate filters will eventually come to petrol engines by way of EU regulations - but when they do, petrol engines will reach running temperature more quickly than diesels, and the particulate filter regeneration will happen much more often.
I would agree with other commenters, that regular journey type will be a key point in deciding whether to go for a diesel or a petrol engine version of a particular vehicle. If you expect to do a greater number of short journeys. then go for petrol. If the journeys you do have to make, are around 50 60 miles plus each way, a diesel would be worth thinking about.
It is also true that they can take some time to warm up, in the winter for no other reason, than they will typically be at just above engine idle speed for road speeds up to 40 45 mph, so don't expect too much from the heater until you have done quite a few miles after start up. That said even when the engine is still cold it is showing an indicated 50 -55 mpg on the mpg indicator.
It seems that some here (particularly those who have not driven a diesels for more than a few miles, or even at all!) are quick to point out the down sides of diesels, whilst ignoring the plus sides.
I can regularly get 1000 miles plus from one tank full of diesel. They are not the noisy smoky clunkers, that some here would have people believe. except for a few seconds on start up, modern diesels, produce little or no visible smoke, and in operation are far quieter than an equivalent petrol engine car. I can cruise at the motorway limit in 6th gear with the engine turning over at barely above idling speed, and therefore making no discernible noise (wind noise is louder than anything the engine produces) Or in town the car will do 40 45mph in top without touching the right hand pedal, and around 30 mph in 4th, (again without having to touch the throttle pedal) on engine idle speed alone.
I have been able to make 500 mile plus journeys into Europe, without having to get fuel whilst over there, sailing past their motor way service stations which are crammed with cars queuing for fuel. As for acceleration, diesels will probably not match the majority of the bigger engined petrol cars, but the torque characteristics provide a solid stream of acceleration that effortlessly seems to leave quite a few cars in the distance behind. Of course those cars behind, may be petrol, diesel, or the driver may just not interested in keeping up with the car in front, but I rarely have any issues with keeping up with other traffic.
And lets remember, there is other traffic and speed limits every where we go, so it does not really matter if a person is driving a Bugatti Veyron, or a diesel in terms of their journey times to a particular location.
It is also true that they can take some time to warm up, in the winter for no other reason, than they will typically be at just above engine idle speed for road speeds up to 40 45 mph, so don't expect too much from the heater until you have done quite a few miles after start up. That said even when the engine is still cold it is showing an indicated 50 -55 mpg on the mpg indicator.
It seems that some here (particularly those who have not driven a diesels for more than a few miles, or even at all!) are quick to point out the down sides of diesels, whilst ignoring the plus sides.
I can regularly get 1000 miles plus from one tank full of diesel. They are not the noisy smoky clunkers, that some here would have people believe. except for a few seconds on start up, modern diesels, produce little or no visible smoke, and in operation are far quieter than an equivalent petrol engine car. I can cruise at the motorway limit in 6th gear with the engine turning over at barely above idling speed, and therefore making no discernible noise (wind noise is louder than anything the engine produces) Or in town the car will do 40 45mph in top without touching the right hand pedal, and around 30 mph in 4th, (again without having to touch the throttle pedal) on engine idle speed alone.
I have been able to make 500 mile plus journeys into Europe, without having to get fuel whilst over there, sailing past their motor way service stations which are crammed with cars queuing for fuel. As for acceleration, diesels will probably not match the majority of the bigger engined petrol cars, but the torque characteristics provide a solid stream of acceleration that effortlessly seems to leave quite a few cars in the distance behind. Of course those cars behind, may be petrol, diesel, or the driver may just not interested in keeping up with the car in front, but I rarely have any issues with keeping up with other traffic.
And lets remember, there is other traffic and speed limits every where we go, so it does not really matter if a person is driving a Bugatti Veyron, or a diesel in terms of their journey times to a particular location.
We just had exactly this dilemma and "did the math"as advised by the salesman.
We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
Marcellus said:
We just had exactly this dilemma and "did the math"as advised by the salesman.
We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
Yeah you have to do the maths for your particular case. I bought a car recently and had a choice between petrol and diesel, and it worked out about £120 per month cheaper to buy the diesel with a broadly similar sort of purchase price. If I keep it even just three years it'll save over £4000 and I doubt that even the biggest internet moaner will claim I'll have £4k of repair bills. What's more for the 2000 motorway miles a month that the car does it's probably a better engine than the petrol. If I was doing 10k a year with a lot around town I'd want the petrol engine though, the absurdly short 1st and 2nd gear are extremely irritating. My usage case is basically the poster child for the benefits of diesel engines though.We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
Marcellus said:
We just had exactly this dilemma and "did the math"as advised by the salesman.
We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.We had the choice of
- petrol 32k 2011 plate
- diesel 30k 2060 plate
- diesel automatic 38k 2011 plate
I all other respects the car was the same (C-Class Merc estate).
The petrol was the cheapest and would do 40mpg.
The diesel cost £1,500 more yet would do 60mpg
The diesel auto cist £1500 more than than that.
We were told that running/maintenance costs of all 3 other the next 4 years would be broadly similar.
So we excel spreadsheeted it and on fuel we're saving more than the £1,500 it would cost to buy into a diesel but road tax is slightly higher so it was roughly break even, we assumed equal depreciation.
So as there was no financial incentive it became an emotional decision"............ So we've got a 2011 C-Class estate on the driveway with a 1.8 kompressor engine.
WHAT
You pay 1500 a year in road tax...........and the diesel depreciates faster. Wow.
sparkyhx said:
anyway - LPG best of both worlds < Diesel running costs and none of the disadvantages. I ran my lexus LS430 for 5 years 80k miles averaging the equivalent of 40mpg with long trips circa 55mpg
Except they wont let you onto the Channel Tunnel and in certain car parks if it has an LPG tank. Not sure why? a petrol tank exploding, is hardly going to be much different to an LPG tank exploding??Matttracker said:
I also live in Milton Keynes.
My 320d gets rubbish mpg around MK but 45-50 on the motorway. Honestly I get about 30 in MK, and that's being 50/50 economical and accelerating.
If I only commuted here I'd never touch a diesel.
Plus the bike paths are great here
I know what you mean, Milton Keynes is the roundabout capital of the UK.My 320d gets rubbish mpg around MK but 45-50 on the motorway. Honestly I get about 30 in MK, and that's being 50/50 economical and accelerating.
If I only commuted here I'd never touch a diesel.
Plus the bike paths are great here
I like driving cars, with enthusiasm, I like riding motorbikes, with some gusto. I like driving old and new petrol cars
I have no problem at all with the way my Mondeo TDCI 140 drives.
It is smooth enough, quiet enough, grunty enough, quick enough for a family car, responsive enough, warms up quite quickly and has a good tank range. It is a good car across-country.
I've driven it flat out across Europe and over the Alps and not found it lacking at all.
I don't like the diesel fumes that it pumps out when cold and I no longer do enough miles in it to warrant a diesel, but when it is used, it does at least 20 miles and never does an obvious regen.
Being "anti-diesel" for anything other than maintenance issues or particulates just seems silly.
I have no problem at all with the way my Mondeo TDCI 140 drives.
It is smooth enough, quiet enough, grunty enough, quick enough for a family car, responsive enough, warms up quite quickly and has a good tank range. It is a good car across-country.
I've driven it flat out across Europe and over the Alps and not found it lacking at all.
I don't like the diesel fumes that it pumps out when cold and I no longer do enough miles in it to warrant a diesel, but when it is used, it does at least 20 miles and never does an obvious regen.
Being "anti-diesel" for anything other than maintenance issues or particulates just seems silly.
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