RE: V12 Ferraris: Catch It While you Can

[firebird350]

RoadRunner220 said:

911Thrasher said:

456...looks like a bog Peugeot 406

I kind of like that about them though, not that they look like a pug 406, more that they're very understated for what they are. I imagine that if I were to drive a red 355/360 etc you'd get loads of people trying to prove themselves against you, doubt you'd get that in the 456 because most people won't have a clue about it's pedigree/what's under the bonnet.

Totally agree! I must be a shrinking violet because I always go for the understated look and that 456 in silver a) looks gorgeous and b) I reckon would blend in beautifully with everyday traffic without drawing attention to itself. Yet, behind the wheel, you're getting the full V12 Ferrari experience.

The 456 is pretty agile too - take a glance at the link below, filmed as a Ferrari test driver puts one through its paces (and then some!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhycUCkSyW0

[paulg390]

Phateuk said:

Didn't a guy on here buy a 456 for ~ £17k not long ago? Think there's a thread documenting his costs/usage - great read

Yep that was me... Still loving it and not bankrupt yet either..
For those thinking about takimg the 456 plunge the links to the original threads are here.


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The only disappointment for me is the lack of V12 howl so I now have a pair of Bradan straight pipes to fit for the the spring

[jimmyslr]

I'm not sure the market is ever going to love 4 seater v12 ferraris. I think the speculative end of the market likes the 2 seater cars with their screaming engines, bright red paintwork and playboy image. The v12 is rather more low key, something you cruise in and with room for the kids. More a growl than a scream.

I bought a manual 612 in early 2013. I don't do many miles as I need to pick the journeys with care; mostly this is around where will I park it and which roads will I drive on given size and attention. A weekend away is great, turning up to a race track, I even use it for picking up groceries on a Sunday when the car park is half empty (driving the long way round). It's a lovely place to be, all soft leather, great stereo, clicky clacky gear shift and a general feeling of well being. Then you have the power delivery which is all about riding a wave of torque. 4th is my favourite gear; you can be pooling at 40 or 50, floor it and all of a sudden you are heading towards licence losing speeds. So, not a sportscar, definitely a GT.

It suits some moments in my life very well and not others. If I want an invigorating Sunday morning blast I drive something else. If I need to park in a busy car park, drive down narrow country roads or visit a less than lovely area, something else.

Value is an interesting debate. Clearly it's a lot of car for the money in terms of engine, luxury, prestige and size! It will undoubtedly cost a bit to run, but reliability seems pretty good. The problems might come when you get to major electrical gremlins, new suspension etc in a few years. I don't see mine as an appreciating asset. I though I bought it near the bottom of the curve in 2013 but oh no. That being said, I'd have lost more on a similar priced high end BMW or Audi so I can't complain and went in eyes open.

So, I'm a fan but if I was placing bets on capital appreciation I'd look elsewhere.

[jshell]

jimmyslr said:

So, I'm a fan but if I was placing bets on capital appreciation I'd look elsewhere.

This seems to be wise words. When potentially ruinous cars like the 400/412 are being hyped so much, it may not be the most cost efficient time to get into them. There is a bubble being blown righ now, and all bubbles 'pop'!

[k-ink]

I'd prefer a 575 manual. The newer models are just too vast IMHO.

[SamPet]

k-ink said:

I'd prefer a 575 manual. The newer models are just too vast IMHO.

Shhh! They're undervalued and fabulous. Hoping these won't jump in value too soon, I'd love one.

[estacion]

Manual 612's are not only great to drive but also rare, very rare!

[iloveboost]

jimmyslr said:

I'm not sure the market is ever going to love 4 seater v12 ferraris. I think the speculative end of the market likes the 2 seater cars with their screaming engines, bright red paintwork and playboy image. The v12 is rather more low key, something you cruise in and with room for the kids. More a growl than a scream.

I bought a manual 612 in early 2013. I don't do many miles as I need to pick the journeys with care; mostly this is around where will I park it and which roads will I drive on given size and attention. A weekend away is great, turning up to a race track, I even use it for picking up groceries on a Sunday when the car park is half empty (driving the long way round). It's a lovely place to be, all soft leather, great stereo, clicky clacky gear shift and a general feeling of well being. Then you have the power delivery which is all about riding a wave of torque. 4th is my favourite gear; you can be pooling at 40 or 50, floor it and all of a sudden you are heading towards licence losing speeds. So, not a sportscar, definitely a GT.

It suits some moments in my life very well and not others. If I want an invigorating Sunday morning blast I drive something else. If I need to park in a busy car park, drive down narrow country roads or visit a less than lovely area, something else.

Value is an interesting debate. Clearly it's a lot of car for the money in terms of engine, luxury, prestige and size! It will undoubtedly cost a bit to run, but reliability seems pretty good. The problems might come when you get to major electrical gremlins, new suspension etc in a few years. I don't see mine as an appreciating asset. I though I bought it near the bottom of the curve in 2013 but oh no. That being said, I'd have lost more on a similar priced high end BMW or Audi so I can't complain and went in eyes open.

So, I'm a fan but if I was placing bets on capital appreciation I'd look elsewhere.

Well the market seems to dislike the new price of V12 Ferraris and they arguably aren't as nice to look at. They seem to depreciate faster and appreciate slower than mid engined Ferraris but I think even the less desirable models will rise at some point. It seems to take about fourteen to eighteen years from the last year of a specific model, for prices to start rising faster than inflation if it's a desirable and rare.

You may be an exception and bought at the right time, but I imagine most people buying a Ferrari don't care about value. They buy it because it makes them feel good to own and drive it. It seems as though many pre-nineties Ferraris don't drive well, but asking somebody why they didn't buy something that's technically better or better value is a bit silly. If you did the sums you'd have to be crazy to buy a V12 Ferrari but people do, and I completely understand why.

[250GTE]

Schermerhorn said:

Ferrari 250 GTE. Currently sub £150k.

I reckon they'll be close to £200k very soon.

That is where I would put my money. I had the chance to buy one around a year ago but did not have the patience to potentially wait 5 years for a marginal increase.

How wrong I was!

Last GTE auctioned in the UK went for closer to 290 k GBP , a barnfind went at Monterey for I think 360 k USD so that ship may have already sailed.
IF you find one at 150, and its decent buy it.

[250GTE]

paulg390 said:

Yep that was me... Still loving it and not bankrupt yet either..
For those thinking about takimg the 456 plunge the links to the original threads are here.


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The only disappointment for me is the lack of V12 howl so I now have a pair of Bradan straight pipes to fit for the the spring


Excellent news ! Really glad you are still in the game.
Pop a sound clip up once you get the pipes fitted.

[2manycars]

250GTE said:

Last GTE auctioned in the UK went for closer to 290 k GBP , a barnfind went at Monterey for I think 360 k USD so that ship may have already sailed.
IF you find one at 150, and its decent buy it.

I should really get my arse into gear and get rebuilding mine.

Just started a new project on a V8 Ferrari so the V12 will just have to wait (probably for another 4 years )

Pete

[galois]

jimmyslr said:

I'm not sure the market is ever going to love 4 seater v12 ferraris. I think the speculative end of the market likes the 2 seater cars with their screaming engines, bright red paintwork and playboy image. The v12 is rather more low key, something you cruise in and with room for the kids. More a growl than a scream.

I bought a manual 612 in early 2013. I don't do many miles as I need to pick the journeys with care; mostly this is around where will I park it and which roads will I drive on given size and attention. A weekend away is great, turning up to a race track, I even use it for picking up groceries on a Sunday when the car park is half empty (driving the long way round). It's a lovely place to be, all soft leather, great stereo, clicky clacky gear shift and a general feeling of well being. Then you have the power delivery which is all about riding a wave of torque. 4th is my favourite gear; you can be pooling at 40 or 50, floor it and all of a sudden you are heading towards licence losing speeds. So, not a sportscar, definitely a GT.

It suits some moments in my life very well and not others. If I want an invigorating Sunday morning blast I drive something else. If I need to park in a busy car park, drive down narrow country roads or visit a less than lovely area, something else.

Value is an interesting debate. Clearly it's a lot of car for the money in terms of engine, luxury, prestige and size! It will undoubtedly cost a bit to run, but reliability seems pretty good. The problems might come when you get to major electrical gremlins, new suspension etc in a few years. I don't see mine as an appreciating asset. I though I bought it near the bottom of the curve in 2013 but oh no. That being said, I'd have lost more on a similar priced high end BMW or Audi so I can't complain and went in eyes open.

So, I'm a fan but if I was placing bets on capital appreciation I'd look elsewhere.

This was incredibly helpful. I have been a long term fan of the 612 and had just been running the man maths on one as a replacement for my very family unfriendly toy.

[Chris Rees]

Seems the 365 GT4 has just become the next V12 to go wild. Here's the result on that manual-box Silverstone auction one http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

Estimate (£): 45,000 - 55,000
Sold for (£): 67,500

[suffolk009]

Chris Rees said:

Seems the 365 GT4 has just become the next V12 to go wild. Here's the result on that manual-box Silverstone auction one http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

Estimate (£): 45,000 - 55,000
Sold for (£): 67,500

I think I can hear the whole market about to crash.

[456mgt]

While I've long known that V12s in general, and four seater V12s specifically, are a disaster area with regards to retained value, I've never really understood it. Piling the family or a group of mates into a Ferrari and heading off for the day is one of THE great automotive pleasures. Absolutely and comprehensively beats an A to A blast on your own in a two seater. You could cite V12 vs V8 running costs but I don't recall any massive difference between them, and the extra two seats cost nothing to run. My guess is that two seats is synonymous with sports car and most people in the market for a Ferrari want a sports car, not a GT.

[5to1]

456mgt said:

While I've long known that V12s in general, and four seater V12s specifically, are a disaster area with regards to retained value, I've never really understood it. Piling the family or a group of mates into a Ferrari and heading off for the day is one of THE great automotive pleasures. Absolutely and comprehensively beats an A to A blast on your own in a two seater. You could cite V12 vs V8 running costs but I don't recall any massive difference between them, and the extra two seats cost nothing to run. My guess is that two seats is synonymous with sports car and most people in the market for a Ferrari want a sports car, not a GT.

Have you ever spent much time in the back of a four seater Ferrari while some loon is thrashing it around corners like he's Nigel Mansel? I was once picked up from Hamburg Airport by an associate in his 456, my GF (now wife) was also with me and he had brought a friend along, so we sat in the back. It was far from a comfortable place to be to begin with, but when he started piling on the G's by whipping it around every corner, the roar of the engine and clackety clack of the box faded into insignificance. It was like being squeezed into a very small barrel and thrown of a cliff :/

I know the 612 is better in the rear, but then everyone complains its too big and feels like a German car (not special). I think the issue is a large practical well behaved grand tourer isn't cogent with that image many have built up of Ferrari's since childhood. And once you've experienced the smaller, useless rear seat variant, while it may be closer to what you want from a Ferrari you start to think whats the point of those rear seats (I don't want to sit in them and none of my passengers like them despite the initial enthusiasm) :/

OOPS, just clocked your username , obviously a silly question on my part

Edited by 5to1 on Friday 21st November 22:24

Edited by 5to1 on Friday 21st November 22:26

[SteveS Cup]

Josh300 said:

I love mine with the HGT2 pack

How anyone can say that is not stunning is beyond me!!

[hunter 66]

Having owned a Scag for a year now , must say enjoyed the drive as much as previous cars ( GT3s andRS Pork ) , overpowered and "old Style" handling , love it , can do high speed powerslides ...yet can get the family in . No issues beside usual electrical gremlins , my heated seat comes on without warning!
Drives more like my other weekend car a 993 GT2R ...... so a bit of a handful when pushed...
NIce and rare as well, even in London ...
Just likes Benzina !!!