RE: New Vehicle Dev Chief Engineer at Lotus
Discussion
bobo said:
smilo996 said:
Get the Italians to redesign the Evora.
Does anyone actually seriously think that a Lotus should look like every other Lamborarri wannabe out there ?
EK993 said:
Then it's pretty much all over for Lotus isn't it? They only make one type of vehicle - a sports car. If they are now not able to have any significant competitive advantage over even an Audi TT on their main selling point - lightness - how are they going to survive? What's left?
Ultimately I suppoes it's how the car drives that matters and I haven't driven an Evora so I can't comment on that. Reviews would imply that it doesn't really feel its weight. I've certainly never read a gorup test that concludes the Evora is worse to drive than the Cayman; the huge majority seem to come to the opposite conclusion. The fact that other manufacturers are being forced to push the weights of their vehicles down due to ever greater focus on emissions must be a concern for Lotus though. They'll just have to hope that companies like Porsche don't learn to set up their suspension and steering properly.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th December 12:11
marshalla said:
Whoosh parrot for Mr. Bobo, methinks.
Does anyone actually seriously think that a Lotus should look like every other Lamborarri wannabe out there ?
it should look like something 'well styled' that appeals to almost everyone not just lotus geeks. its styling shouldn't isolate and should look aggressive - its a sports car. if thats what you think is Lamborarri then fine. it should not look awkward from certain angles (thats the stuff of rookies!) or have all presence shrink wrapped out of it ....most of this has been covered already. Does anyone actually seriously think that a Lotus should look like every other Lamborarri wannabe out there ?
they made great strides with the exige v6 which wasn't russell carr afaik - and the s1 and s2 lotus geeks were up in arms at the styling when it was released, too fat, wide, shovel chin, pig rear, overhangs etc. now they all want one and if that cars styling isnt lotus's take on Lamborarri i dont know what is. it was the first good looking lotus with a bit of real presence to it in a long time and its been relatively successful as a result. isnt that what we want for lotus?
imVho its a shame and v unusual that the guy that completely missed the trick in the first place (and not just with the evora) gets another bite at the cherry.
personally i would like the styling to be moved on and used as a USP. so far lotus haven't taken advantage of that... although the eyetye that was there looked to be trying to do so ..
everyone is entitled to an opinion and since you asked this is just mine..
marshalla said:
Whoosh parrot for Mr. Bobo, methinks.
Does anyone actually seriously think that a Lotus should look like every other Lamborarri wannabe out there ?
It's a tricky one. To a certain extent, all supercars will share certain design cues, but i did think the Esprit concept (designed by an Italian) launched at Paris back in those heady, optimistic days was disappointingly deriviative. Then when Lamborghini launched the Huracan, I thought "Hello, Lamborghini? Lotus called - they want their Esprit concept back" as the world's motoring journalists collectively knocked one out over how gorgeous it was. Does anyone actually seriously think that a Lotus should look like every other Lamborarri wannabe out there ?
Probably a good job I didn't choose motoring journalism as a career.
kambites said:
EK993 said:
Then it's pretty much all over for Lotus isn't it? They only make one type of vehicle - a sports car. If they are now not able to have any significant competitive advantage over even an Audi TT on their main selling point - lightness - how are they going to survive? What's left?
Ultimately I suppoes it's how the car drives that matters and I haven't driven an Evora so I can't comment on that. Reviews would imply that it doesn't really feel its weight. I've certainly never read a gorup test that concludes the Evora is worse to drive than the Cayman; the huge majority seem to come to the opposite conclusion. The fact that other manufacturers are being forced to push the weights of their vehicles down due to ever greater focus on emissions must be a concern for Lotus though. They'll just have to hope that companies like Porsche don't learn to set up their suspension and steering properly.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th December 12:11
Suspect I am preaching to the choir on this one as regards most of the posters on here.
Europa1 said:
It's a tricky one. To a certain extent, all supercars will share certain design cues, but i did think the Esprit concept (designed by an Italian) launched at Paris back in those heady, optimistic days was disappointingly deriviative. Then when Lamborghini launched the Huracan, I thought "Hello, Lamborghini? Lotus called - they want their Esprit concept back" as the world's motoring journalists collectively knocked one out over how gorgeous it was.
Probably a good job I didn't choose motoring journalism as a career.
They also fawned over the Alfa 4C, which is basically a badly proportioned Evora copy with a few flourishes and some ugly and awkward details. Even my girlfriend commented the first time she saw one, completely unprompted, that it looked just like my car only ugly.Probably a good job I didn't choose motoring journalism as a career.
The Pits said:
Do you really want Lotus to go under? That's how your post comes across.
By the way, making only one type of vehicle is a good thing. All those people, all that talent focused on doing only one thing - making sports cars, not wasting time and money trying to make SUVs handle. That's why the cars are so focused and why those that like such things tend to be underwhelmed when driving anything else.
I don't believe the word Porsche was mentioned in the title, so why would any Porschophile bother themselves with this thread? It's weird enough being a British Porsche fanboy but a British Porsche fanboy wasting time in a Lotus thread? Time to call the life coach!
Pits, I know your posts well and the bitter vitriole you spew towards Porsche's, I am not sure of the relevance of you adding your usual comments into my reply though (Did I mention Porsche in my post anywhere??). I currently run two British cars, an F Type and a Range Rover, and my last car in the UK was an Elise. Guess you didn't bother to do any due diligence though and just jumped straight in with your anti Porsche comments.By the way, making only one type of vehicle is a good thing. All those people, all that talent focused on doing only one thing - making sports cars, not wasting time and money trying to make SUVs handle. That's why the cars are so focused and why those that like such things tend to be underwhelmed when driving anything else.
I don't believe the word Porsche was mentioned in the title, so why would any Porschophile bother themselves with this thread? It's weird enough being a British Porsche fanboy but a British Porsche fanboy wasting time in a Lotus thread? Time to call the life coach!
And no I don't want Lotus to go under - I really don't. I wish I could buy an Exige V6 here in the US as I would have one in my garage right now - unfortunately I don't have that option though as they don't bring them here to the US.
I was trying to say - Lotus used to be the choice for those who want lightweight vehicles - nobody else did that. However now even Audi seemingly have a mainstream "bloated" car, the TT, at a very similar weight to the Evora, and that Lotus can't correct that without significant R&D being invested - which they don't have. So as they don't have any other segment to prop them up (SUV's - love them or hate them - prop up other manufacturers), surely it is difficult for them to remain relevant and keep sales up in enough numbers to survive?
Sorry to see Becker moving on, but don't know how to interpret the move as I have no idea 'who started it' or why. If he's got a lucrative offer from Aston, good on him. Lotus are not founded on a single person (not even their founder), but it is up to the current boss to ensure that the right DNA is preserved through the generations.
As ever, it comes down to how they manage their consultancy business and how they evolve their car business. When Tesla are investing $6bn in a new factory, we know the world is changing - and every other car manufacturer is just as at risk from becoming obsolete overnight. Unfortunately the high level merry-go-round at Lotus has prevented a clear forward movement for arguably fifteen years now, since the chaos of the deal with Vauxhall over the VX-220 and the introduction of the S2 Elise. We get regular five year plans from four year directors.
I'm pretty sure that the company has more information at hand, and better insights to choose a better direction forward than all we armchair experts on this forum. The question is whether they can maintain their stability long enough to execute. Right now they need to deliver that stability, and to carefully evolve their current line-up for long enough to justify the next big investment. Personally, I will be watching the Spring car shows for the first signs of their intentions.
Right now, I wouldn't want to be designing a new car - oil has suddenly almost halved in price, electric power is on the cusp of becoming economically viable and the supercar manufacturers are thrashing around trying to work out what comes next. That's ignoring game changers like self-driving vehicles and in-car intelligence. Designing a car based on a five or ten year platform in the current climate has to be a huge gamble.
As ever, it comes down to how they manage their consultancy business and how they evolve their car business. When Tesla are investing $6bn in a new factory, we know the world is changing - and every other car manufacturer is just as at risk from becoming obsolete overnight. Unfortunately the high level merry-go-round at Lotus has prevented a clear forward movement for arguably fifteen years now, since the chaos of the deal with Vauxhall over the VX-220 and the introduction of the S2 Elise. We get regular five year plans from four year directors.
I'm pretty sure that the company has more information at hand, and better insights to choose a better direction forward than all we armchair experts on this forum. The question is whether they can maintain their stability long enough to execute. Right now they need to deliver that stability, and to carefully evolve their current line-up for long enough to justify the next big investment. Personally, I will be watching the Spring car shows for the first signs of their intentions.
Right now, I wouldn't want to be designing a new car - oil has suddenly almost halved in price, electric power is on the cusp of becoming economically viable and the supercar manufacturers are thrashing around trying to work out what comes next. That's ignoring game changers like self-driving vehicles and in-car intelligence. Designing a car based on a five or ten year platform in the current climate has to be a huge gamble.
The Crack Fox said:
JamStar said:
I was going to ask what car he's sitting in in the picture but worked out it's a Lotus Elan...
...if anyone's interested. No just me. Ok.
Nice...
I absolutely love that. It's mental. ...if anyone's interested. No just me. Ok.
Nice...
Edited by JamStar on Tuesday 9th December 14:56
Here's one the right way round, it's number 190 and has just been made beautiful again by a chap called Jonathan and this is his photo:
)Yes, everyone wants to see a new Esprit but there's not the slightest sign of a car. Nor will there be if they've got any sense - there are three stunning mid-engined sportscars already sitting around £150k. Tackling the "under £100k" market would be suicidal when you see what's on offer from the F-type and others.
Back in the days of their M250 concept I put a deposit down but eventually just got bored waiting with endless promises and got the money back. Then another new car was promised which turned out to be Evora,; then another which turned out to be the cheaper front of old Exige attached to the Toyota bits of Evora. Meanwhile the "other" dealership is selling some of the world's best sportscars at prices which start under £40k.
Hopefully the "restructuring" of which this new Lotus appointment forms part will eventually see the company able to deliver on some of its ambitious promises and targets. Get the product right and IMO the customers will come.
Back in the days of their M250 concept I put a deposit down but eventually just got bored waiting with endless promises and got the money back. Then another new car was promised which turned out to be Evora,; then another which turned out to be the cheaper front of old Exige attached to the Toyota bits of Evora. Meanwhile the "other" dealership is selling some of the world's best sportscars at prices which start under £40k.
Hopefully the "restructuring" of which this new Lotus appointment forms part will eventually see the company able to deliver on some of its ambitious promises and targets. Get the product right and IMO the customers will come.
Sure these sports cars start at £40k but always seem to end up nearer £65k! They also depreciate heavily too so those 'must have' acronyms are costing you real money.
Seriously though, wherever Matt Becker ends up, expect to see a dramatic improvement in ride and handling. He really is world class.
Very nice, approachable bloke to meet in real life too and one of the many talented people at Lotus who deserve our support.
In the unlikely event that you're reading this Matt, very best of luck to you and also to those taking the reins at Lotus.
Seriously though, wherever Matt Becker ends up, expect to see a dramatic improvement in ride and handling. He really is world class.
Very nice, approachable bloke to meet in real life too and one of the many talented people at Lotus who deserve our support.
In the unlikely event that you're reading this Matt, very best of luck to you and also to those taking the reins at Lotus.
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