Why is lorry overtaking not banned?

[mp3manager]

The real problem is commuters and their own deluded self-importance.

People used to live close to their place of work but not anymore.

So you have a commuting low-achiever in a 2.0d or worse...in a one litre econo-buzz-box, who travels to some anonymous office block on an anonymous business park with a water-feature, who then spends 8 hours looking at a computer-screen, pressing buttons on a keyboard and moving a mouse-cursor around....a job which they could do just as easily at their home, but they don't.

Instead of working from home, they clog up the road network, along with all the other deluded commuters, and complain when a vehicle which has to use the roads, gets in their way for a few moments.

[jmorgan]

I have this theory that the road network has an IQ. Rush hour it is in minus figures. It picks up during the day to an average numpty level but quickly drops to the evening rush hour and it only achieves a good figure past 22:00 through to 06:30, maybe 06:32 but that is at a push...

[surveyor]

\i'm with the OP. On some roads it's not a problem - on others it's a real problem - and the no overtaking does not work if the fkers ignore the law.

I once spent 20 minutes behind the same 2 lorries. At that point, bored I looked down the inside to see the overtaking lorry in Lane 2 was still about 5 car lengths behind the slower one in Lane 1. I drifted down lane 1, into lane 2 (no massive cutting up etc needed) and gently decelerated Overtaking lorry voiced his protest, but did lose his momentum and abandon his 20 mile overtake, which was nice for the two miles worth of cars behind him. Not great driving, but heyho.

I do tow a caravan, and have some sympathy, but you will not catch me elephant racing.

Which reminds me of a phone one I was listening with the DailyMail of the airways - Vine. A couple of caravanists had rung up to say that they stated in Lane 2 for 30 miles at a time because it was so hard to get into. My piss was boiled instantly and I had to turn off the radio.

[bigfatnick]

Bennet said:

For the pecious little time difference this must make to their journey, why is this still allowed? Would banning lorry overtaking cause other problems that arent immediately obvious?

The difference between my truck on new tyres (a good 57/58mph one) and a 50mph one on bald tyres is over a 10% speed difference. This would make a big difference when driving 50 hours a week and I might not get home at the end of the week (I have done, and will do in the future, have to call for my boss to come drive my truck home when I run out of hours). Interestingly, I spend most of my time in Scotland, where it all works fine, most trucks are like mine, wound up as fast as possible, yet as soon as you get South of the m62 on the m6, it seems that lane 1 is only for 50mph trucks, and lane 2 is for 56mph trucks. The m6 is awful, I'm not sure you could actually fit all the trucks in lane 1, ha.

I say scrap hs2, and build a network of coach/truck dual carriageways. Probably still cost less and everyone would be happy!
That combined with all trucks doing a gps 56mph rather than a mix of anywhere from 48 to 58mph. And banning Kia picanto to drivers from doing 45mph everywhere (I almost overtake as many of these as I do other trucks).

Edit to add - on the rare occasions another lorry passes me, I do lift to let them past quicker.

Edited by bigfatnick on Saturday 17th January 14:41

[ZX10R NIN]

Lane discipline is by far the biggest factor in congestion on our roads today, as I've said before allow trucks fitted with EBC systems to do 65mph that will help the traffic flow more efficiently it will clear lane two of those 60 mph lane hoggers.

A 14mph difference is to much for modern roads, also how do you think the car you're driving got to the Dealership.

In a car you have the ability make up time trucks limited to 56mph don't.

[The Vambo]

As with commuters, cyclists and motorcyclists, some LGV drivers are just dicks and could care less about anyone else.

And the M8 eastbound on the rise between the Showcase cinema and Shawhead desperately needs a restriction keeping all heavy traffic in lane 1.

[T0MMY]

I don't think many people mind so much when it's a 5 or 6 mph speed differential, it's when it's 0.5 mph people get annoyed. Saying that is mythical is simply not true, it definitely happens and I regularly see lorries taking several minutes to get past each other, mainly on the A14 and often when the two lanes will become 3 or 4 within the next 10 or 20 miles anyway. That means the time saved is absolutely miniscule basically.

I understand the lorry drivers on here being defensive but maybe you should consider that the behaviour of some of your colleages is what creates this animosity. Namely the overtakers pulling 5 minute overtakes on D/Cs and the overtakees unwilling to lift to speed the process along.

[T0MMY]

GC8 said:

I'ts an emotive topic.

Inescapably, most car drivers vociferously airing their opinions know very little about the topic and their calls come from a position of entitlement and self-importance, rather than knowledge and understanding.

I can guarantee any car drivers learning to drive an HGV, an epiphany.

I have to say, if you think lorry drivers don't suffer from a sense of entitlement you are very wrong. I had one try to run me off the road the other day because he wanted to move into the piece of road my car was on. Stuck on his indicator and expected me to disappear when I had cars ahead and behind, all doing the same speed as lane 1. When I didn't he just moved over anyway while giving me the coffee beans. Only time in my life I've phoned a company to complain about someones driving as it was actually pretty psychotic.

[Wills2]

berlintaxi said:

Conscript said:

heebeegeetee said:

Given that there's a third lane available, how can the lorries be causing the slow down?

It's the reduction of road capacity that causes the slow down.

3 lanes of traffic suddenly have to merge into 1 in order to maintain their speed. This necessitates people checking their mirrors, matching speeds with everyone else and then changing lanes; all of this will cause traffic speeds to drop.

No point in rolling your eyes, it's pretty obvious and happens every day on the motorway network, not sure what you can't get your head around?

[surveyor]

Wills2 said:

berlintaxi said:

Conscript said:

heebeegeetee said:

Given that there's a third lane available, how can the lorries be causing the slow down?

It's the reduction of road capacity that causes the slow down.

3 lanes of traffic suddenly have to merge into 1 in order to maintain their speed. This necessitates people checking their mirrors, matching speeds with everyone else and then changing lanes; all of this will cause traffic speeds to drop.

No point in rolling your eyes, it's pretty obvious and happens every day on the motorway network, not sure what you can't get your head around?

Often of course where the real frustrations avail is where there is no third lane...

[ZX10R NIN]

T0MMY said:

I don't think many people mind so much when it's a 5 or 6 mph speed differential, it's when it's 0.5 mph people get annoyed. Saying that is mythical is simply not true, it definitely happens and I regularly see lorries taking several minutes to get past each other, mainly on the A14 and often when the two lanes will become 3 or 4 within the next 10 or 20 miles anyway. That means the time saved is absolutely miniscule basically.

I understand the lorry drivers on here being defensive but maybe you should consider that the behaviour of some of your colleages is what creates this animosity. Namely the overtakers pulling 5 minute overtakes on D/Cs and the overtakees unwilling to lift to speed the process along.

I drive our race Transporter during the season & I agree that when you're stuck behind me doing 1-2mph more than the truck but you have to understand that if we're stuck behind a slower lorry we're losing time (it's even worse if it's a lorry with a 50mph limiter) our truck has 730bhp so we romp up hills but some trucks have less this all equates to slow overtakes. Let us run 65mph limiters & the traffic will flow better.

As I've stated while you may be inconvenienced for five minutes we'll be inconvenienced for hours & that's the difference between getting home or not, when your driving hours are limited, for haulage companies it's the difference between getting paid in full or losing a percentage because you missed your slot, so every 0.5mph counts.

Improve all road users lane discipline & the roads will work better, then you can start to focus on a particular road user.

[T0MMY]

ZX10R NIN said:

I drive our race Transporter during the season & I agree that when you're stuck behind me doing 1-2mph more than the truck but you have to understand that if we're stuck behind a slower lorry we're losing time (it's even worse if it's a lorry with a 50mph limiter) our truck has 730bhp so we romp up hills but some trucks have less this all equates to slow overtakes. Let us run 65mph limiters & the traffic will flow better.

As I've stated while you may be inconvenienced for five minutes we'll be inconvenienced for hours & that's the difference between getting home or not, when your driving hours are limited, for haulage companies it's the difference between getting paid in full or losing a percentage because you missed your slot, so every 0.5mph counts.

Improve all road users lane discipline & the roads will work better, then you can start to focus on a particular road user.

The trouble is that 0.5mph only adds up to about a 4 minute saving, even if you were stuck at that lower speed for an entire 8 hour day (or whatever the limit is these days) which isn't remotely realistic anyway. What pisses me off on the bit of the A14/A1 I use is that you are rarely more than 10 miles away from a 3 or 4 lane section so why not wait? 56 rather than 55.5 over 10 miles will save you less than 10 seconds!

[g3org3y]

mp3manager said:

The real problem is commuters and their own deluded self-importance.

People used to live close to their place of work but not anymore.

So you have a commuting low-achiever in a 2.0d or worse...in a one litre econo-buzz-box, who travels to some anonymous office block on an anonymous business park with a water-feature, who then spends 8 hours looking at a computer-screen, pressing buttons on a keyboard and moving a mouse-cursor around....a job which they could do just as easily at their home, but they don't.

Instead of working from home, they clog up the road network, along with all the other deluded commuters, and complain when a vehicle which has to use the roads, gets in their way for a few moments.

Er...ok.

Do you think people enjoy commuting on a daily basis and intentionally reject the option to work from home?

Let's be honest, in many instances the blockage of the road isn't for 'a few moments'.

As with all road users, there are good and bad apples. As a frequent user of the A1 (usually via M11/A14) for London to Scotland trips I sympathise with the OP re elephant racing trucks. On the two lane sections, it causes significant congestion as the entire flow is essentially limited to ~50-55 for extended periods.

I don't think anyone minds trucks overtaking per se but to hold up the entire flow of the road for a single overtake lasting 5-10+ minutes (no hyperbole) really isn't on imho. Can the individual who is being overtaken lift slightly to increase the speed difference (or is the loss of momentum too great)?

I've seen just as many good/quick overtakes as I have terrible slow ones. There are plenty of very good truck drivers out there and I sympathise with their plight (especially given the distances they have to travel and the rules about hours).

It's all about give and take. The more terrible elephant racing overtakes that drivers observe, the less likely they are to let trucks out to overtake in the first place.

Perhaps trucks need a boost button which removes the limiter for a short period allowing quick and efficient overtakes?


As a side note re the lane discipline issue mentioned a few pages back - wholehearted agreement. It is absolutely shocking on the 4 lane sections of the M25. Lane 3 seems to be the 60mph cruising lane of late. The martix signs should as a default state 'keep left unless overtaking' rather than crap about not drink driving or dropping rubbish. Moreover, I don't think short public information films during ad breaks would do any harm.

[ZX10R NIN]

T0MMY said:

The trouble is that 0.5mph only adds up to about a 4 minute saving, even if you were stuck at that lower speed for an entire 8 hour day (or whatever the limit is these days) which isn't remotely realistic anyway. What pisses me off on the bit of the A14/A1 I use is that you are rarely more than 10 miles away from a 3 or 4 lane section so why not wait? 56 rather than 55.5 over 10 miles will save you less than 10 seconds!

Yes that may be when it's a flat piece of road but when you factor in hills inclines etc it equates to a fairly big chunk of times to give you an example our old truck used to be 410bhp, the new one is 730bhp when traveling to knockhill for example we are now doing the same journey & saving over an hour in driving time this is with the same 56mph.

[jmorgan]

g3org3y said:

It's all about give and take. The more terrible elephant racing overtakes that drivers observe, the less likely they are to let trucks out to overtake in the first place.

Tis as well (give and take). There are two sides to the coin and car drivers cannot look one way at the problem.

Face it, it is never going on the rails. You want it yesterday, this is the life style we have, ordering, getting food, buying computers to complain on line etc. etc. all just in time deliveries and with drivers legislated to the eyeballs with certain delivery slots, cards that leave no room for when to take a rest break an on and on.

I think it just needs a holistic approach. Sit back and chill. I have not really seen a dramatic increase in times due to truck, I have seen things get worse in the rush hours. Now, maybe public transport can be better used to get the cars off the road but somehow I think that aim'y gonna happen either.

We are just too cramped in this country, across a whole range both personal and what we need delivered. We have to live with it.

[petrolsniffer]

blueg33 said:

Except in some places it is banned, parts of M42 and M14 for intance. Are the highways engineers retards? Seems to work pretty well inthose places.

Maybe, you just have the approach that someone who thinks differently to you is a retard. I am afraid that if that is the case you are wrong. You don;t have a monopoly on being right, quite the opposite. Open minds = better results

That m42 section is bliss make really good progress every weekend when I go to/from brum I wish more d/c's and 2 lane motorways had this rule.

[T0MMY]

ZX10R NIN said:

Yes that may be when it's a flat piece of road but when you factor in hills inclines etc it equates to a fairly big chunk of times to give you an example our old truck used to be 410bhp, the new one is 730bhp when traveling to knockhill for example we are now doing the same journey & saving over an hour in driving time this is with the same 56mph.

I'm not saying never overtake, I'm just complaining about the 0.5mph ones. If that speed differential becomes 5mph due to a hill then it's not a problem to overtake.

[GC8]

T0MMY said:

GC8 said:

I'ts an emotive topic.

Inescapably, most car drivers vociferously airing their opinions know very little about the topic and their calls come from a position of entitlement and self-importance, rather than knowledge and understanding.

I can guarantee any car drivers learning to drive an HGV, an epiphany.

I have to say, if you think lorry drivers don't suffer from a sense of entitlement you are very wrong. I had one try to run me off the road the other day because he wanted to move into the piece of road my car was on. Stuck on his indicator and expected me to disappear when I had cars ahead and behind, all doing the same speed as lane 1. When I didn't he just moved over anyway while giving me the coffee beans. Only time in my life I've phoned a company to complain about someones driving as it was actually pretty psychotic.

It's a practical test, not an intelligence test: I can't guarantee that they aren't idiots!

[OldGermanHeaps]

I'm reading this thread just a bit jealous at all you english folk and your 3 lane motorways, spare a thought for us north of the border where its almost exclusively 2 lane. I think a wee button on the limiter that lets a truck go 65 for 30 seconds every 30 minutes would let them do the overtakes in a reasonable amount of time. When my ex employer put a 68 limiter on my van it was hellish, you would pull out to pass someone doing 60 then once you get alongside them the speed up and your left hanging irritating german car drivers. My immediate solution was to fit a switch under the dash cutting power to the abs ecu bypassing the limiter on demand. Permanent solution was self employment.

[bigfatnick]

OldGermanHeaps said:

I'm reading this thread just a bit jealous at all you english folk and your 3 lane motorways, spare a thought for us north of the border where its almost exclusively 2 lane. I think a wee button on the limiter that lets a truck go 65 for 30 seconds every 30 minutes would let them do the overtakes in a reasonable amount of time. When my ex employer put a 68 limiter on my van it was hellish, you would pull out to pass someone doing 60 then once you get alongside them the speed up and your left hanging irritating german car drivers. My immediate solution was to fit a switch under the dash cutting power to the abs ecu bypassing the limiter on demand. Permanent solution was self employment.

The bold bit accounts for a good percentage of time I spend in lane 2. "Oh I can't be overtaken by a lorry, best accelerate away or match his speed and sit in his blind spot for the next 2 miles".

I will say though, I think you have it much better in Scotland than elsewhere! Shame your government keeps making up rules to give you a harder time!