Why is lorry overtaking not banned?

[ZX10R NIN]

Bennet said:

I rarely drive on the motorway during the week. Driving between Manchester and Birmingham yesterday I was struck by the near constant slowdown of traffic caused by lorries overtaking oneanother with a tiny speed differential. (They also often pull out on you in ways that would quickly result in serious road rage if it were a car.)

For the pecious little time difference this must make to their journey, why is this still allowed? Would banning lorry overtaking cause other problems that arent immediately obvious?

(If a massive crane or a grandma is doing sub 50 mph, I'd still support their requirement to overtake.)

Let trucks drive at 65mph & we'd have a lot less of a speed differential.
The reason trucks are passing others will be dependent on how much BHP each truck has, our Race Transporter has 700bhp & a ridiculous amount of Torque now most trucks have around 380bhp & pull 44 Tons. Now when you get to a hill or even a slight incline those that have more BHP or are empty etc will maintain their spped better than those with less bhp etc.

Now the main reasons for the slowing down of traffic is peoples inability to let one another in (if it's a three lane motorway) & also the inability of those pulling into the faster lanes of the motorway to actually match the speed of the traffic in that lane(if they're doing 80mph then do 80 mph not 70 mph) but they don't they carry on doing 60-70mph thus slowing down all the traffic.

Let the trucks do 65mph & the problem is lessened I understand 44 tons traveling at 65mph will worry some people but with the advances in ESP ABS & traction control trucks are a lot safer.

Take a look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSQSueFrxzI

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 16th January 15:39

[heebeegeetee]

And of course the point I'm forgetting - all those lorries you see on the m'way, and possibly even more so, are all on the m'way at night too, and yet the roads run free and clear apart from roadworks.

Then daylight comes and millions and millions of cars join in, just like the OP, and every single one of them thinks somebody else is causing the congestion.

[T0MMY]

heebeegeetee said:

And of course the point I'm forgetting - all those lorries you see on the m'way, and possibly even more so, are all on the m'way at night too, and yet the roads run free and clear apart from roadworks.

Then daylight comes and millions and millions of cars join in, just like the OP, and every single one of them thinks somebody else is causing the congestion.

I'm not sure what your point is there really; obviously congestion is lower at night because there are far fewer vehicles on the road.

The thread is about lorries overtaking. Arguably the cars and lorries have to be there (or at least they are there and we can't change that easily) and are all part of the congestion, the point is would there be less congestion if lorries didn't pull into the outside lane of dual carriageways doing 20mph less than the traffic was doing in that lane previously?

On the roads I spend far too much time on I would say yes. I actually think there would be fewer accidents too.

[Swanny87]

heebeegeetee said:

And of course the point I'm forgetting - all those lorries you see on the m'way, and possibly even more so, are all on the m'way at night too, and yet the roads run free and clear apart from roadworks.

Then daylight comes and millions and millions of cars join in, just like the OP, and every single one of them thinks somebody else is causing the congestion.

No, it's because there are not as many cars to get held up by lorries at night. That's like saying a burst pipe is fixed by turning the water off.

[Bennet]

heebeegeetee said:

And of course the point I'm forgetting - all those lorries you see on the m'way, and possibly even more so, are all on the m'way at night too, and yet the roads run free and clear apart from roadworks.

Then daylight comes and millions and millions of cars join in, just like the OP, and every single one of them thinks somebody else is causing the congestion.

I don't recall accusing anyone of causing congestion. I recall asking whether limiting lorries to lane one would result in a net beneft for traffic flow at very little cost to their own journey times.

[heebeegeetee]

Swanny87 said:

No, it's because there are not as many cars to get held up by lorries at night. That's like saying a burst pipe is fixed by turning the water off.

If millions of us choose to use the roads at the same time then we are the cause of the congestion and nobody else.

I don't use the m'ways and there are virtually no lorries on my route to work, but the route still grinds to a halt and the biggest influence on my journey time is the time I set off.

No-one else out there is causing the congestion other than ourselves.

[ZX10R NIN]

Bennet said:

I don't recall accusing anyone of causing congestion. I recall asking whether limiting lorries to lane one would result in a net beneft for traffic flow at very little cost to their own journey times.

It would cost a huge amount to the Truck industry if they were restricted to one lane, we are limited to how many hours we can drive for so every minute we'd be stuck behind a slower lorry could be the difference between meeting reaching our truck yard parking up & going to see our families or spending another night away from home.

Also if we don't reach warehouses etc on time we lose our loading slots which means as a haulage company you wouldn't get your full fee for the load, in a car you have the ability to make up time trucks do not. Read my post at the top of the page & comment.

[Conscript]

heebeegeetee said:

I don't use the m'ways and there are virtually no lorries on my route to work, but the route still grinds to a halt and the biggest influence on my journey time is the time I set off.

Without wishing to sound condescending, if you don't use motorways regularly and don't have to deal with lorries, what makes you qualified to make comments to the effect that so called "elephant racing" has no discernible effect on traffic flow?

There are others here who do use the motorways with lorries, and have witnessed the effects that their overtaking has on the traffic flow first hand. I use motorways every day and have witnessed it myself. Someone on here posted an anecdote about a road where a ban on lorries overtaking was trialled and had a positive effect on the traffic flow.

Your logic seems a little flawed - "I don't drive on motorways and I don't encounter lorries much, and I still suffer congestion, therefore they are not a cause of congestion" ...huh?

[ZX10R NIN]

Conscript said:

Without wishing to sound condescending, if you don't use motorways regularly and don't have to deal with lorries, what makes you qualified to make comments to the effect that so called "elephant racing" has no discernible effect on traffic flow?

There are others here who do use the motorways with lorries, and have witnessed the effects that their overtaking has on the traffic flow first hand. I use motorways every day and have witnessed it myself. Someone on here posted an anecdote about a road where a ban on lorries overtaking was trialled and had a positive effect on the traffic flow.

Your logic seems a little flawed - "I don't drive on motorways and I don't encounter lorries much, and I still suffer congestion, therefore lorries overtaking lorries is not a cause of congestion" ...huh?

I drive up & down motorways regularly & the biggest cause of congestion is lack of lane discipline everyone should be on the inside lane unless overtaking but what you get are people hogging the middle lane even when it's clear on the inside lane, yes there may be a lorry/car that you're catching but when you catch up with it pull back out & pass. The M25 is now worse for having four lanes there's to much choice.

I feel lack of lane discipline is by far the biggest cause of congestion, I have forgotten the number of times I have caught up with someone in the outside lane & they aren't even aware you're there until you flash them.

[jmorgan]

Pain in the neck when you are stuck behind a shed dragger MLM in the summer and cannot use the outside lane. Well, any MLM. I pull in a let the wagons learn em.

[Justin Case]

I was on the M6 in the height of the rush hour last night and the traffic was flowing freely. Why? the managed motorway system was in operation and there were four lanes open (the hard shoulder was opened up as lane-1) Obviously there are safety issues with no continuous hard shoulder, but with a 60 limit (which you can keep up) there seem to be virtually no accidents and there are no problems with elephant racers even on the hill up to j7.
The solution is simple, make the motorways linking major cities and ports four-lane. The money can easily come from scrapping the useless and ridiculously expensive HS2, with the added benefit of not disrupting so many communities.

Edited by Justin Case on Friday 16th January 14:55

[Conscript]

ZX10R NIN said:

Conscript said:

Without wishing to sound condescending, if you don't use motorways regularly and don't have to deal with lorries, what makes you qualified to make comments to the effect that so called "elephant racing" has no discernible effect on traffic flow?

There are others here who do use the motorways with lorries, and have witnessed the effects that their overtaking has on the traffic flow first hand. I use motorways every day and have witnessed it myself. Someone on here posted an anecdote about a road where a ban on lorries overtaking was trialled and had a positive effect on the traffic flow.

Your logic seems a little flawed - "I don't drive on motorways and I don't encounter lorries much, and I still suffer congestion, therefore lorries overtaking lorries is not a cause of congestion" ...huh?

I drive up & down motorways regularly & the biggest cause of congestion is lack of lane discipline everyone should be on the inside lane unless overtaking but what you get are people hogging the middle lane even when it's clear on the inside lane, yes there may be a lorry/car that you're catching but when you catch up with it pull back out & pass. The M25 is now worse for having four lanes there's to much choice.

I feel lack of lane discipline is by far the biggest cause of congestion, I have forgotten the number of times I have caught up with someone in the outside lane & they aren't even aware you're there until you flash them.

I agree entirely, poor lane discipline is just as bad a problem. The government spends billions increasing road capacity by building 4 lane motorways, then some twunt goes and sits in lane 3 and ruins it all. But that's another argument entirely.

[Bennet]

ZX10R NIN said:

Read my post at the top of the page & comment.

I read both of them. Informative, thanks. I appreciate being under time pressure will influence driving behaviour.

I suspect a four line motorway with lorries bound to lanes 1 and 2 is the only reasonable solution.

[ZX10R NIN]

Conscript said:

I agree entirely, poor lane discipline is just as bad a problem. The government spends billions increasing road capacity by building 4 lane motorways, then some twunt goes and sits in lane 3 and ruins it all. But that's another argument entirely.

I agree it is a different issue but it's all part of the solution as I said at the top of page 4 allow lorries to do 65mph & traffic will flow better limiting Trucks to 56mph is ridiculous when the rest of the traffic is doing 70mph

[heebeegeetee]

Conscript said:

Without wishing to sound condescending, if you don't use motorways regularly and don't have to deal with lorries, what makes you qualified to make comments to the effect that so called "elephant racing" has no discernible effect on traffic flow?

There are others here who do use the motorways with lorries, and have witnessed the effects that their overtaking has on the traffic flow first hand. I use motorways every day and have witnessed it myself. Someone on here posted an anecdote about a road where a ban on lorries overtaking was trialled and had a positive effect on the traffic flow.

Your logic seems a little flawed - "I don't drive on motorways and I don't encounter lorries much, and I still suffer congestion, therefore they are not a cause of congestion" ...huh?

Up until 5 years ago, 5 years this month in fact, I had been doing some 50k miles a year in a variety of vehicles and did so for about 25 years.

I just find it interesting that I'm now doing something different, still struggling with congestion, but the presence of lorries or otherwise has made no difference.

I know I lose hours a week due to the numbers of cars on the road (and always did) but the numbers of everything else loses me minutes a year, and I think it must be the same for everyone.

I drove for years before speed limiters, and so I know they have had very little effect. The interesting thing is that one of the specific aims of the introduction of speed limiters was to reduce congestion.

[blueg33]

Justin Case said:

I was on the M6 in the height of the rush hour last night and the traffic was flowing freely. Why? the managed motorway system was in operation and there were four lanes open (the hard shoulder was opened up as lane-1) Obviously there are safety issues with no continuous hard shoulder, but with a 60 limit (which you can keep up) there seem to be virtually no accidents and there are no problems with elephant racers even on the hill up to j7.
The solution is simple, make the motorways linking major cities and ports four-lane. The money can easily come from scrapping the useless and ridiculously expensive HS2, with the added benefit of not disrupting so many communities.

Edited by Justin Case on Friday 16th January 14:55

M6 southbound J11 - J8 was solid last night even at the tail end of rush hour. Took an extra 45 minutes do do that stretch

[mph1977]

jmorgan said:

Meh. Complainers always gonna complain. When car drivers manage to achieve an ability that actually matches their own perception of themselves, then perhaps debatable.

dunning - kruger syndrome on behalf of the car steering wheel operatives ...

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why not try it? if you're right and all the established logistics experts in the uk and Europe have got it wrong, you'll be a gazillionaire.

However, average speeds on m'ways won't change a drop.

And as some have said, why not just sort out lane discipline? I've noticed now that on the four lane section L3 has become the lane of choice for the 50mph lane hogger.

[ZX10R NIN]

heebeegeetee said:

Why not try it? if you're right and all the established logistics experts in the uk and Europe have got it wrong, you'll be a gazillionaire.

However, average speeds on m'ways won't change a drop.

And as some have said, why not just sort out lane discipline? I've noticed now that on the four lane section L3 has become the lane of choice for the 50mph lane hogger.

1) Let trucks do 65 mph (that'll stop those 60mph lane hogging drivers) because no one will want a lorry bearing down on them so the 60mph middle lane hogger will now do 70 mph to make sure he or she doesn't befall this fate.

2) Try and instill/enforce some lane discipline.

Those are far more practical but still just as hard to get right.

[GC8]

Bennet said:

Why is lorry overtaking not banned?

Because it is a retarded suggestion, usually made by people who should take the bus. Sadly, those who bleat for it are unlikely to achieve enlightenment.

Edited by GC8 on Saturday 17th January 13:14