Cambelt gone, engine write off?
Discussion
curlie467 said:
A diesel is done by using the glowplug hole and runs at a much higher psi so you can't use a petrol compression tester unless the values read high enough.
I would be punting the car on if it was mine.
You'd be punting it off before knowing the fault? Just going by the description it could be as simple as an inter cooler hose poped off?I would be punting the car on if it was mine.
Black_S3 said:
curlie467 said:
A diesel is done by using the glowplug hole and runs at a much higher psi so you can't use a petrol compression tester unless the values read high enough.
I would be punting the car on if it was mine.
You'd be punting it off before knowing the fault? Just going by the description it could be as simple as an inter cooler hose poped off?I would be punting the car on if it was mine.
very yee ha, but get the dremmel out and cut the top of the cam belt cover off to allow you to have a look at the belt quickly without dismantling everything around it. You can always cover it back up with gaffa tape if you end up continuing to drive it.
5 minute job to confirm diagnosis.
If it is snapped then engine will likely be very poorly.
5 minute job to confirm diagnosis.
If it is snapped then engine will likely be very poorly.
CrutyRammers said:
For 25-30 quid, you can get a compression tester. That'll tell you if the engine's toast in a half-hour without taking much apart. Not done a diesel but with a petrol you just screw it into a spark plug hole so I guess it will be similar.
Yes, that's where I would start.hairykrishna said:
RB Will said:
The other thing is the AA then flat towed me about 8 miles to a garage. The garage owner said that could have been a bad move too as a lot of auto gearboxes dont fully decouple when in neutral and with the engine off will not be getting supplied with oil? so he thinks the gearbox may be shagged too?
8 miles at low speeds should be ok. I'm surprised they did it without making you sign a disclaimer though.Hopefully it is something simple. It could be a number of things and the garage have it, so the best thing to do would be wait and see what they say.
The replacement parts should be well under 1k.
May be cheapest to source a used head and just swap it, new valves might cost more. Or even a cracked head and just reuse the valves (don't forget to grind them in).
Generally you will find a few bent valves, the fully open ones, it all depends on just how much interference there is. Pistons will be dented but if you desist from cranking it over, should be nothing serious. Don't do this, a valve head may have snapped and could do more damage.
If you wish to consider it an education, go for it.
May be cheapest to source a used head and just swap it, new valves might cost more. Or even a cracked head and just reuse the valves (don't forget to grind them in).
Generally you will find a few bent valves, the fully open ones, it all depends on just how much interference there is. Pistons will be dented but if you desist from cranking it over, should be nothing serious. Don't do this, a valve head may have snapped and could do more damage.
If you wish to consider it an education, go for it.
[quote=RB Will]
The other thing is the AA then flat towed me about 8 miles to a garage. The garage owner said that could have been a bad move too as a lot of auto gearboxes dont fully decouple when in neutral and with the engine off will not be getting supplied with oil? so he thinks the gearbox may be shagged too?/quote]
Mechanics a joker.
The other thing is the AA then flat towed me about 8 miles to a garage. The garage owner said that could have been a bad move too as a lot of auto gearboxes dont fully decouple when in neutral and with the engine off will not be getting supplied with oil? so he thinks the gearbox may be shagged too?/quote]
Mechanics a joker.
Firstly if its a broken belt you will certainly have bent valves but you say it makes a clattering noisewhen turning over, normally with a broken belt it would turn over very fast due to no compression but not ussually any noise, in which case head of and overhauled bottom end of engine should be ok. Due to the fact of the clattering its possible the belt has jumped a tooth but not broken, in this case you may get away with just a belt change. On the other hand it may be a different fault altogether.
On the subject of the gearbox, some automatics can be towed a certain distance although I dont think the Audi is one of them. When an auto is towed that shouldnt be it normally overheats and blows the seals in the box which would probably manifest itself as a big transmission fluid leak from the bellhousing.
On the subject of the gearbox, some automatics can be towed a certain distance although I dont think the Audi is one of them. When an auto is towed that shouldnt be it normally overheats and blows the seals in the box which would probably manifest itself as a big transmission fluid leak from the bellhousing.
Being a V6 its two heads to remove and its going to be 4-8 valves bent. Not the end of the world, once the heads are off its not too expensive to just have the valves replaced and lapped in at an engine reconditioners or if youre confident enough do it youself around £8 a valve. D.i.y the whole job and its easily done for less than £300.
The only problem you may have is damage to the gearbox but probably unlikely given the shortish distance towed.
An Allroad will still fetch decent money even on an 04 plate and has got to be worth doing even if it means a second hand engine..
The only problem you may have is damage to the gearbox but probably unlikely given the shortish distance towed.
An Allroad will still fetch decent money even on an 04 plate and has got to be worth doing even if it means a second hand engine..
bullitinhead said:
the problem with just throwing on a belt to see if it runs is, it might run but then it could snapp a valve stem at any time. then it'll totally ruin the engine.
bullit
It depends on the engine. I had a belt snap on an XR2.bullit
I took the head off and it snapped a valve. The valve was neatly imbeded in the head the valve seats, causing a bulge on both.
A set of valves, and grinding paste flattened the bulges (used a drill to drive the suction cup).
This happened on a Saturday morning, and the car was running by Sunday evening. We sold the car a year later and it was still running fine.
Engines were much simpler back then though.
Thanks for more food for thought people 
So those in the know what would the plan of action be if I were to DIY?
Take front of car off to see what exactly has happened with the belt, maybe find an issue like a failed tensioner or seized water pump or a snapped belt.
Next, remove both heads and see how many bent valves I have and then inspect the pistons to see if they are damaged. (would they be OK with a little scoring or is any visible damage a write off?)
If pistons are buggered consider it a lost cause?
If pistons OK then get new valves and take valves and heads to local engineering place. get heads skimmed? and/or valves lapped in.
rebuild with new gaskets and full service, cam belt, tensioners, water pump.
Reckon if this could weigh in at less than £1k and I would very much consider doing it.
I dont really want to be spending double that on having another engine put in as the car is only really worth £3kor less by the time I sold it.
As said I have time and space to do it and we have other cars I can use in the mean time (I just didnt want the muddy dog in them lol).
Jimboka said:
1k to fix? About the same as missing 2 belt changes @ 4 years. So if the changes were skipped you're no worse off financially !
If only! I have only had the thing a few months, it has service history and was 20K away from needing a belt change 22Rgt said:
Being a V6 its two heads to remove and its going to be 4-8 valves bent. Not the end of the world, once the heads are off its not too expensive to just have the valves replaced and lapped in at an engine reconditioners or if youre confident enough do it youself around £8 a valve. D.i.y the whole job and its easily done for less than £300.
The only problem you may have is damage to the gearbox but probably unlikely given the shortish distance towed.
An Allroad will still fetch decent money even on an 04 plate and has got to be worth doing even if it means a second hand engine..
When you say you think all in for £300 does this include buying new valves, head gaskets, fluids etc?The only problem you may have is damage to the gearbox but probably unlikely given the shortish distance towed.
An Allroad will still fetch decent money even on an 04 plate and has got to be worth doing even if it means a second hand engine..
So those in the know what would the plan of action be if I were to DIY?
Take front of car off to see what exactly has happened with the belt, maybe find an issue like a failed tensioner or seized water pump or a snapped belt.
Next, remove both heads and see how many bent valves I have and then inspect the pistons to see if they are damaged. (would they be OK with a little scoring or is any visible damage a write off?)
If pistons are buggered consider it a lost cause?
If pistons OK then get new valves and take valves and heads to local engineering place. get heads skimmed? and/or valves lapped in.
rebuild with new gaskets and full service, cam belt, tensioners, water pump.
Reckon if this could weigh in at less than £1k and I would very much consider doing it.
I dont really want to be spending double that on having another engine put in as the car is only really worth £3kor less by the time I sold it.
As said I have time and space to do it and we have other cars I can use in the mean time (I just didnt want the muddy dog in them lol).
Ultimately, you need to find out why the issue is which means taking the belt cover off as a start, checking the timing if the belt is intact.
£300 for parts is a bit low, a full belt kit for these is about £200, there are 24 valves, head set, oil, oil filter, coolant, engineering costs plus whatever you break taking it apart.
I'll look up the book labour time tomorrow but I would expect it to be about 15 hours at least on something like this, if you have some basic knowledge and no power tools it will take you double that at least.
I don't want to dissuade you from doing it but, it is likely you will end up with a pile of bits and a car worth scrap value instead of £500 to a grand on fleabag.
Why don't you list it for sale @ £1500 on Gumtree for a week and think about it, you would be amazed at what people will pay for broken vw junk.
£300 for parts is a bit low, a full belt kit for these is about £200, there are 24 valves, head set, oil, oil filter, coolant, engineering costs plus whatever you break taking it apart.
I'll look up the book labour time tomorrow but I would expect it to be about 15 hours at least on something like this, if you have some basic knowledge and no power tools it will take you double that at least.
I don't want to dissuade you from doing it but, it is likely you will end up with a pile of bits and a car worth scrap value instead of £500 to a grand on fleabag.
Why don't you list it for sale @ £1500 on Gumtree for a week and think about it, you would be amazed at what people will pay for broken vw junk.
Jimmyarm said:
Ultimately, you need to find out why the issue is which means taking the belt cover off as a start, checking the timing if the belt is intact.
£300 for parts is a bit low, a full belt kit for these is about £200, there are 24 valves, head set, oil, oil filter, coolant, engineering costs plus whatever you break taking it apart.
I'll look up the book labour time tomorrow but I would expect it to be about 15 hours at least on something like this, if you have some basic knowledge and no power tools it will take you double that at least.
I don't want to dissuade you from doing it but, it is likely you will end up with a pile of bits and a car worth scrap value instead of £500 to a grand on fleabag.
Why don't you list it for sale @ £1500 on Gumtree for a week and think about it, you would be amazed at what people will pay for broken vw junk.
Totally agree. You couldn't do this job properly for £300. Cheapest I could see a headgasket set was £73 and valves for £13 each. (So potentially over 100 quid on valves alone) The heads will need a skim, normally £60-£80 per head, decent belt and tensioner kit £200, water pump £40, oil and filter £30, and about £20 for coolant. Pretty sure those have stretch-bolts for the heads, in which case it'll be at least £100 for a full set of those...£300 for parts is a bit low, a full belt kit for these is about £200, there are 24 valves, head set, oil, oil filter, coolant, engineering costs plus whatever you break taking it apart.
I'll look up the book labour time tomorrow but I would expect it to be about 15 hours at least on something like this, if you have some basic knowledge and no power tools it will take you double that at least.
I don't want to dissuade you from doing it but, it is likely you will end up with a pile of bits and a car worth scrap value instead of £500 to a grand on fleabag.
Why don't you list it for sale @ £1500 on Gumtree for a week and think about it, you would be amazed at what people will pay for broken vw junk.
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