Advice : BMW warranty claim

[balls-out]

tjs79 said:

I agree but wanted to point out their warranty is far from black and white making it legally difficult to exclude liability on this basis, irrespective of any overriding statutory rights here. Ignore the legal avenue though - I endorse the PR approach as the most simple and effective. I work inhouse and know the fear that management have of any negative press ruining their carefully orchestrated public image.

Thanks - I wanted to check my understanding. I often see people worrying about the detail of a warranty, when I think they should just be saying the goods were not fit for purpose. On second hand cars, I think a warranty is more about protecting the dealer than the purchaser - who is well protected under consumer law.

Anyway - good luck to OP. I can't see how BMW can stick to their position. Make sure you get hire car and any costs of your covered given their outrageous behaviour.

[NORTS]

fourspoons said:

The driver's handbook makes no reference to driving on track or racing or anything of the sort as far as I can find

That's good news for you then. Check under the warranty section.

[carreauchompeur]

This is ridiculous, sure there will be a general exclusion about abusive use but a track day isn't it. I'm quite surprised they went to the extent of an Internet trawl though!

[balls-out]

NORTS said:

balls-out said:

Really? So when you spend vast amounts of money on a new car, you are expected to have studied the driver manual so you know what you can and can't do with the car when you have purchased it. It probably says only to use washer fluid from BMW and BMW badged air freshener too.

I would say its irrelevant.

Call it irrelevant all you like but in the courtroom this is what counts. It's their disclaimer.

OK - I'm happy to be proved wrong. I'm not claiming I know it all, but am interested in this area.

The driver manual is only provided when a car is delivered. So my view is that any detail tucked away there, could not be claimed part of any agreement (contract) either with respect to the actual car purchase, nor the nature of the warranty that was also purchased. Even if the warranty said "car to be used in accordance with the condition in the manual" I think that it would un-enforceable.

If you have knowledge or court experience that shows I misunderstand the position, I would genuinely like to hear and learn.

[pincher]

fourspoons said:

Any recommendations for who could represent me?

getcarter

[PompeyPaul]

This is disgusting. In the next month or so I am looking to buy a performance car, and an M3 was one I am considering. Will be watching this closely and with interest. Shame on you BMW!

[Bungleaio]

balls-out said:

Really? So when you spend vast amounts of money on a new car, you are expected to have studied the driver manual so you know what you can and can't do with the car when you have purchased it. It probably says only to use washer fluid from BMW and BMW badged air freshener too.

I would say its irrelevant.

If they can get out of it they will.

There is an issue with the bumper caps that cover the washer jets for the lights coming off. If this happens the dealers check that you are using bmw fluid. If not they won't replace the caps under warranty.

I had an issue where my car logged a fault on the ecu (but didn't flag up a warning light on the iDrive or dash or being apparent in any way) whilst the car was under the AUC warranty. This fault then deteriorated further a week or so later which caused the car to go into limp mode. By this time my AUC warranty had expired and I was now covered by the bmw comprehensive extended warranty.

They refused to pay for the repairs because both warranties said it wasn't thier fault. AUC because I didn't make a claim whilst I was covered by them and extended because it was an existing fault.

It took a lot of sorting out to get them to pay, the dealer also didn't fix it properly and caused leaks plus a whole host of other rudeness, lies and poor customer service means I will never own a bmw again.

[Monty Python]

To me, the "track" issue is a red herring - conrod failure on such a new car should not happen, especially not with an automatic. If something had broken that was put under undue stress (e.g. suspension/wheel/brakes) then I could understand their POV, but not this - it's not like you've been driving around on the rev limiter for hours, is it?

Sounds like someone in the chain of command trying to weasel out of it.

If all else fails, wave the SOG act at them (or more preferably beat them around the head with it).

[Jordan210]

Maybe BMW need to cancel all the Performance car track days they do at Goodwood !

https://grrc.goodwood.com/driving-at-goodwood/perf...

One of the cars is a M235i so maybe they have to replace it every few laps...

Not great PR and poor show from the dealership/BMW

Hope you get it sorted OP

Edited by Jordan210 on Wednesday 4th February 09:52

[hornetrider]

Jordan210 said:

Maybe BMW need to cancel all the Performance car track days they do at Goodwood !

https://grrc.goodwood.com/driving-at-goodwood/perf...

One of the cars is a M235i so maybe the have to replace it every few laps...

Not great PR and poor show from the dealership/BMW

Hope you get it sorted OP

Oh deary me BMW!

[Jon_Bmw]

fourspoons said:

The Turbonator said:

How did it break op? Did it just go bang all of a sudden or were there any warning lights, strange noises, first?

No warning at all, thought I felt a loss of power, then it cut out completely. Ironically there were no warning lights or error messages in iDrive afterwards either.

That is because it is a mechanical failure... How would the computer know, other than eventually low oil pressure as it all sloshes out of the engine!

[Soov535]

fourspoons said:

Durzel said:

Can you elaborate?

Did you get it recovered from the track?

(guess it's academic either way)

It was recovered from outside the racetrack. Plus they have apparently done their own research and found photographs online

You're screwed.

[daniel1920]

Jon_Bmw said:

That is because it is a mechanical failure... How would the computer know, other than eventually low oil pressure as it all sloshes out of the engine!

02 sensor, cam position sensor, MAF doing strange things for a start

[rallycross]

fourspoons said:

The Turbonator said:

How did it break op? Did it just go bang all of a sudden or were there any warning lights, strange noises, first?

No warning at all, thought I felt a loss of power, then it cut out completely. Ironically there were no warning lights or error messages in iDrive afterwards either.

There must have been a serious manufacturing fault with you engine for this to happen don't you think?
There are loads of 335i/135i that have been remapped and run a very safe 380 bhp without going bang, and my own 335i is now on 192,000 miles and still going strong.
So how could a few laps of Silverstone be the cause of your engine going bang? It should easily cope with that.

[Soov535]

hornetrider said:

fourspoons said:

Thanks for the advice. I agree the PR approach is hopefully the most direct. If it doesn't work, then legal representation and the fit for purpose route will be my next avenue I think. Any recommendations for who could represent me?

Soovy or BV will draft you a nice lawyery letter I'm sure. This one's as juicy as they come.

Sadly on this occasion not even I can help.

Car was on track, went bang. BMW fold arms and say "no cover".

So OP has either to sue, or suck it up. And if he loses he will be looking at a £100k bill not a £13k one.

[fourspoons]

Minor Update : My email to the MD has been acknowledged and I've been assigned a Customer Service Manager to review my case. I now at least have a name and phone number of a real person at BMW which is more than I had yesterday.

[hornetrider]

Soov535 said:

hornetrider said:

fourspoons said:

Thanks for the advice. I agree the PR approach is hopefully the most direct. If it doesn't work, then legal representation and the fit for purpose route will be my next avenue I think. Any recommendations for who could represent me?

Soovy or BV will draft you a nice lawyery letter I'm sure. This one's as juicy as they come.

Sadly on this occasion not even I can help.

Car was on track, went bang. BMW fold arms and say "no cover".

So OP has either to sue, or suck it up. And if he loses he will be looking at a £100k bill not a £13k one.

I am disappoint. What about all the BMW Goodwood bks and the fact it's not competitive motorsport? Think of the negative PR heading their way which some lawyery words could highlight rather well?

[fourspoons]

Soov535 said:

Sadly on this occasion not even I can help.

Car was on track, went bang. BMW fold arms and say "no cover".

So OP has either to sue, or suck it up. And if he loses he will be looking at a £100k bill not a £13k one.

Do you not think given that what I was doing does not seem to be excluded by the wording and the previous case that got resolved in Mr Carter's favour, I have a strong case?

[McSam]

I get the feeling that the few people in here saying "it doesn't matter if it has 'motorsport' in the name, it's a road car, not a racing car, it shouldn't be expected to survive track days" have never actually been on a track day. Track days are not racing, they are intended for road cars, and they are not about driving beyond the limit for hours on end. For many they are simply an opportunity to properly experience their car's performance, because it's impossible to use its full design capability on the roads.

The operative term there is design capability. Unless the OP is neglecting to mention some abnormally abusive driving (though I cannot think of a single thing you could do to it that should cause this failure), he did absolutely nothing outside the car's design capability. And it had a catastrophic engine failure. There's really no question about whether BMW are required to repair it, and if I were them I'd want to know exactly what happened to that engine rather than trying to screw my customer over on a tenuous, misintepreted technicality.

Neil McRae said:

please name the dealer as the world needs to know that this is a place to avoid.

"Please deliberately break PH's acceptable use policy and get a vitally important thread deleted"? No, don't do that.

[Soov535]

fourspoons said:

Soov535 said:

Sadly on this occasion not even I can help.

Car was on track, went bang. BMW fold arms and say "no cover".

So OP has either to sue, or suck it up. And if he loses he will be looking at a £100k bill not a £13k one.

Do you not think given that what I was doing does not seem to be excluded by the wording and the previous case that got resolved in Mr Carter's favour, I have a strong case?

Well, you may have a case (and much will depend on what the judge is like on the day, but in the real world sadly that makes no difference. If you sue, and you lose, then you will have to pay your own costs and BMW's, and you can be assured that they will use lawyers who cost in the region of £400 per hour.

The question is (sorry) do you feel lucky?