RE: Porsche Cayman GT4: Review

[canucklehead]

The level of want I have for this car right now is off the charts. The kind of car I thought Porsche had given up making. Seems I was wrong.

Just a damn shame I can't come to an arrangement with my bank manager that would work for both of us :-(

[is1]

Dagnut said:

I think they've got it pretty much spot on with the GT brand. Most of these where sold with on the basis that the previous 911 incarnations where kept to limited numbers and are ultra desirable.
A halo range topper like this, at such a reasonable price, will create buzz around the Cayman itself and drive sales into the more profitable assembly line cars.

I find that point of view interesting. Surely the sort of person that wants a GT4 (me, for example), won't accept anything lower down the range and is more likely not to buy a Porsche at all as a result?

I don't want to spend tens of thousands of pounds on something I don't really want (i.e. a non-GT Cayman).

I am also not sure there is really a "strategy" to treat these as "halo" cars. They may genuinely have been caught out by demand in the UK. Admittedly, the numbers are very low but if there is limited capacity, that is that. Also, we still don't know how long the production run will be and what total numbers will end up at.
Apparently, you can get a left-hand drive one a bit easier.

[RedSwede]

samoht said:

Oz83 said:

"Preuninger tells us he likes a long second gear that'll stretch to over 80mph for the kind of typical overtakes you'd perform on the public road"

Whats wrong with overtaking in 3rd gear? Is he aware of speed limits?

I guess the problem is that in most cars, 2nd is too short and 3rd is too long for optimum overtaking reach. The Porsche answer is a long 2nd that covers this range. The JDM answer (coming from a country with low speed limits and mandatory 112mph limiters) is a short 3rd - my RX-7 pulls hard in third from a sub-40mph bimble through to about 85mph, perfect for passing Sunday drivers.

Personally I think that a short 3rd makes most sense on UK roads, and would think having six speeds would make this even more so. Any Germans care to support the Porsche approach? Maybe having unrestricted autobahns makes it useful to have more longer ratios?

Totally agree - an 85mph 3rd isn't short, its correct. Why do Porsche leave you high and dry coming out of a tight bend? I think there is plenty of room for a gear somewhere between starting off and exceeding all speed limits in Europe (Autobahn excepted, and borderline in Poland admittedly)

Also, Mr Preuninger, while you're giving us all these insightful comments, pray tell why the hell we need all those gears ridiculously closely packed over 100mph? With a 2nd like that, why not save us the hassle of 4 more gears and give us a 5 speeder.

Crazyness. They get everything else so right, but insist on ruining every one of their cars with shocking gearing.

Grrr.

EDIT: Apologies. Not every one of their cars - just checked YouTube and the Macan Petrol S has a 62mph 2nd and a 90-ish 3rd. So they can get sports ratios correct in their SUV. Great.

Edited by RedSwede on Tuesday 10th March 15:20

[mdianuk]

Had my LOI and deposit in but Porsche weren't willing to confirm in way shape or form the sort of production numbers (it was all rather woolly) and the OPC said they'll sell as many as demanded, which is now seemingly not the case! I can see this ending up at max 200 in the UK which should lead to some desirability in future years. Mine for the record would have been kept outside and used, though respected! I guess I'll be waiting for what I hope will be a GT4 RS.

[Guvernator]

While I am sure it's a stunning car to drive and I wholeheartedly applaud Porsche for finally having the b*lls to build a proper hardcore Cayman and with a manual box no less, I can't help but be disappointed by how it looks. The Cayman has never been the most beautiful creation, in fact dull is the word I would use so they could have done something to try to spice this GT4 version up a bit more.

Yes call me shallow but If I was an in the market for a £70k+ toy, I'd want it to set my pulse racing before I even got in the thing and this just doesn't.

This is what a Cayman GT4 should look like (sans the stickers of course)

[CrisW]

Surely there is a market for Ruf or someone to make a different take on this.

Take a Cayman body, insert a Carrera GTS spec engine (or even a GT3 engine...) and sprinkle with appropriate suspension parts/styling.

Charge £80/90k for it.

You'd have a parts bin special with ~12% more power than the GT4 for I suspect no additional weight. Being Ruf you don't have to worry that it'd be faster than the 911s either.

[Dagnut]

Guvernator said:

While I am sure it's a stunning car to drive and I wholeheartedly applaud Porsche for finally having the b*lls to build a proper hardcore Cayman and with a manual box no less, I can't help but be disappointed by how it looks. The Cayman has never been the most beautiful creation, in fact dull is the word I would use so they could have done something to try to spice this GT4 version up a bit more.

Yes call me shallow but If I was an in the market for a £70k+ toy, I'd want it to set my pulse racing before I even got in the thing and this just doesn't.

This is what a Cayman GT4 should look like (sans the stickers of course)

There's another 20k in bespoke body work there.

[otolith]

When 2nd is a good overtaking gear, I like it to run to a bit over NSL, but not to 80mph+. If 2nd is a bit too short for overtaking, you need a short third or a lot of torque at low revs. In the RX-8, 2nd ran to nearly 70mph. In the Civic Type-R, the limiter was pretty close to 60. In both cars third gear was too long to give optimal acceleration from 40mph, but at least in the Mazda you didn't sometimes hit the limiter mid-overtake. (Yes, I know, NSL applies during overtaking as much as any other time, but strict adherence to speed limits is a minor priority during an overtake.)

[Lowtimer]

RedSwede said:

EDIT: Apologies. Not every one of their cars - just checked YouTube and the Macan Petrol S has a 62mph 2nd and a 90-ish 3rd. So they can get sports ratios correct in their SUV. Great.

This is one of the many things I like about my old 944 Turbo. Gearing is much better for the UK than on a modern Cayman: you get a long-striding top that gives economical and quiet motorway cruising with still plenty of push, and at the red line the intermediates give you something like 40, 68, 100 and 130.

[Dagnut]

is1 said:

I find that point of view interesting. Surely the sort of person that wants a GT4 (me, for example), won't accept anything lower down the range and is more likely not to buy a Porsche at all as a result?

I don't want to spend tens of thousands of pounds on something I don't really want (i.e. a non-GT Cayman).

I am also not sure there is really a "strategy" to treat these as "halo" cars. They may genuinely have been caught out by demand in the UK. Admittedly, the numbers are very low but if there is limited capacity, that is that. Also, we still don't know how long the production run will be and what total numbers will end up at.
Apparently, you can get a left-hand drive one a bit easier.

You could be right but I think Porsche knows better than anyone the demand for these cars. I think there is a common misconception that these cars are somehow more profitable for manufacturers because they sell at a premium over the rest of the range. It was the same when the E92 GTS came out everyone shouting about how ridiculous it was paying 125k for an M3, then you add up the price of the parts alone and you've got the list price (another car that sold of the spec sheet BTW) That's discounting the engineering, testing development that goes into these cars. There is no way Porsche is making more profit on these cars than on the assembly line models. If they don't act as Halo cars what else are they for?

[anniesdad]

CrisW said:

Surely there is a market for Ruf or someone to make a different take on this.

Take a Cayman body, insert a Carrera GTS spec engine (or even a GT3 engine...) and sprinkle with appropriate suspension parts/styling.

Charge £80/90k for it.

You'd have a parts bin special with ~12% more power than the GT4 for I suspect no additional weight. Being Ruf you don't have to worry that it'd be faster than the 911s either.

Farnbacher Loles did a nice take on this, I remember lusting after it some time ago.

Sadly the owner/team boss turned out to be a fraudster and the company collapsed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktnBHCE11YY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpOFHc3U-Wo

Edited by anniesdad on Tuesday 10th March 16:18

[turbobungle]

Such a shame about the long gearing, I was in a 991 Carrera S the last few weeks and that was geared to over 80mph in 2nd, despite having SEVEN gears!! Its ridiculous, you spend your whole life in second just so you can hear the thing. Very disappointing. Not that it really matters to me, they're all sold anyway!!

[British Beef]

3 things I am not surprised about:

1. Great drive on track

2. It is a £75k car and sold out

3. Chris Harris review - Could he get the Porsche branded dildo any further up his rear end?

I am surprised that based on the GT3 markup second hand cars are selling for, why Porsche does not sell the GT4 for £70k or £80k basic, to avoid the speculators making the extra money when the trickle onto the market.

[anniesdad]

Long gearing...emissions? Hell they're all going turbocharged soon, god help us. RIP N/A.

[smilo996]

soad said:

Unfortunately they can't up production to more than 2000 cars globally per year - that's the limits of the production line.

However, Porsche does admit to having been surprised (really?) at how popular the GT4 has been/is, and hasn't made any decisions (yet) on how long it will be produced for.

"However, as Volkswagen assumed control of Porsche AG, production of Caymans and Boxsters after 2012 began in the former Karmann plant in Osnabrück, Germany, which is now owned by Volkswagen and also used for production of the 2012 Golf (Mk6) convertible.[3]

Unlikey that has a maximum production of 2000 per annum.

[HokumPokum]

Dan Trent said:

HokumPokum said:

Dan,

were there any steel braked Gt4s on the venue and did you get to try them vs the PCCB equipped cars.

I have a 7.2RS and understand how the PCCBs feel but never had the opportunity to try a steel braked car. Does pedal feel improve? and do they make H&T on the road easier?

I'm able to H&T on the PCCB equipped RS, it just takes a more concerted effort to be gentle. But, as you say, no problems on track.

Hi there,

Yes, they had both for us to try (are you listening BMW?!) and you're right, the initial bite of the steel brakes is a little easier to modulate than PCCBs at road speed. They seemed to have plenty of power on the track too, though they were making some pretty loud clicks and clunks once back in the pits! Never any sense of the pedal going long though, which is just as well given Portimao has at least two very big stops with steep downhill braking zones. Great track by the way!

In summary then if the car were only offered with the steel brakes I don't think you'd hear anyone complaining.

PCCBs do have a slightly grabbier initial pedal feel and feel like they pull up harder but, frankly, at £5K they're over a grand less than BMW charges for ceramics on the M3/M4 and I expect most people will tick the box as a reflex action. I'd argue it's not an essential option though and if it were one or the other would go for the Clubsport/carbon seats and leave the standard brakes, even if you're serious about tracking it. Given the cornering speeds the car will carry it's not like you're having to haul it up to a standstill just to get it to turn in either, which should take a bit of pressure off them.

If you're accustomed to PCCBs on your RS (nice...) then you'll know what you're getting. I'd be happy with the steelies though!

Hope that helps!

Dan

Thanks Dan for the analysis.. I'm glad you were there to try it out between steels and PCCB.

Because of the huge/bargain 410mm PCCBs (from the 918) and the more than adequate 380mm steels from the Gt3, this decision will not be an easy one. Strangely, for the first time, I am electing not to go for the option I normally automatically tick every time i log on to the configurator.

[juansolo]

My perfect car. Sad it's way out of my reach cost-wise and even if I could afford it, I'm not chummy enough with the local OPC to have snagged one.

Never mind.

[Adam B]

otolith said:

Adam B said:

otolith said:

At a 25k mark-up on what is a profitable 40k car they must be making like bandits on this - I can't imagine that the increment in build costs from the entry level car is anywhere near that.

did you see the Harris video showing all the bespoke frame, suspension etc? Plus they have to recover the additional R&D and testing for what is a low build model, but yes it will be profitable

Yes, but it's not over half an entire Cayman's worth of bespoke stuff.

you and I don;t know that - someone else said 2,000 cars per year production, let's say ti is produced for 2 years so 4,000 cars x £20k premium = £80M

Say the additional bits, tolling, production line switch costs £8k per car = £32M

So £48M to spend on R&D, marketing, promo videos, hiring Portuguese race tracks and flying journos out etc etc - only Porsche know what that costs

[otolith]

Adam B said:

otolith said:

Adam B said:

otolith said:

At a 25k mark-up on what is a profitable 40k car they must be making like bandits on this - I can't imagine that the increment in build costs from the entry level car is anywhere near that.

did you see the Harris video showing all the bespoke frame, suspension etc? Plus they have to recover the additional R&D and testing for what is a low build model, but yes it will be profitable

Yes, but it's not over half an entire Cayman's worth of bespoke stuff.

you and I don;t know that - someone else said 2,000 cars per year production, let's say ti is produced for 2 years so 4,000 cars x £20k premium = £80M

Say the additional bits, tolling, production line switch costs £8k per car = £32M

So £48M to spend on R&D, marketing, promo videos, hiring Portuguese race tracks and flying journos out etc etc - only Porsche know what that costs

Almost all of which are costs they could amortise over more units if they replaced base Cayman build slots.

I can see it's a great car, perhaps worth what it costs in the sense of what you would have to pay to get something as good, but the idea that it's some sort of bargain requires Porsche branded sunglasses.

[Dagnut]

otolith said:

Adam B said:

otolith said:

Adam B said:

otolith said:

At a 25k mark-up on what is a profitable 40k car they must be making like bandits on this - I can't imagine that the increment in build costs from the entry level car is anywhere near that.

did you see the Harris video showing all the bespoke frame, suspension etc? Plus they have to recover the additional R&D and testing for what is a low build model, but yes it will be profitable

Yes, but it's not over half an entire Cayman's worth of bespoke stuff.

you and I don;t know that - someone else said 2,000 cars per year production, let's say ti is produced for 2 years so 4,000 cars x £20k premium = £80M

Say the additional bits, tolling, production line switch costs £8k per car = £32M

So £48M to spend on R&D, marketing, promo videos, hiring Portuguese race tracks and flying journos out etc etc - only Porsche know what that costs

Almost all of which are costs they could amortise over more units if they replaced base Cayman build slots.

I can see it's a great car, perhaps worth what it costs in the sense of what you would have to pay to get something as good, but the idea that it's some sort of bargain requires Porsche branded sunglasses.

How much for the GT4 suspension setup? how much for the rear axle assemble with the GT4 diff? How much for the engine mounts, adjustable dampers, adjustable rear wing?