RE: Zenos E10 S: Driven
Discussion
I ordered one of these the day I saw the launch car on Pistonheads. It's great to see another innovative British company producing a really desirable car (at least desirable in my eyes) and with the names behind it I was confident it would be a great car. So I've been on the list pretty much from the beginning and lucky enough to drive the prototype etc. To add my thoughts to a couple of the questions/comment on here:
Looks: @scubadude / @macky17
I agree the colour combos are a bit garish, I've ordered mine with the wings etc in the same grey as the aero sections with the rest black/as standard. (@macky17 if you could use your expertise to knock up a photoshop of that I'd love to see it - otherwise I'm looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.)
Size/space: @owenk:
I'm 6'4" and 100kgs and have driven the prototype E10. No issue from a size/space perspective - a lot more space than a Caterham etc obviously. I'm 36" in the leg and I drove the prototype without the pedals fully down the footwell (they are adjustable). There is plenty of knee space, but I'm going to need a moulded seat to get the support under my thighs. The guys have agreed to mould one for me when I pick it up - which is pretty cool.
I should be getting mine pretty soon but have also emailed them today to see if I can get the S upgrade on the back of Dan's review.
Other thoughts: I've only driven the non-s version on the road and before the engine had been fully tuned. One of my first impressions was that it had an extremely compliant ride. The steering was lovely and it was plenty quick enough to have a blast. Handling was pretty balanced, if slightly understeery for my liking, but after less than 30mins in the car I found both under-steer and power-oversteer with less than 200bhp, so it's very approachable.
Negatives: I wasn't that impressed with the feel of the gearstick (although I drive one back in May and I'm sure more work has been done since then) and I don't know why they are sticking with such a long, standard lever (that'll be one of the first upgrades if I can get a shorter one). It also took me a while to get used to the brakes which I thought were v stuff and a bit lacking in modulation (again, this was back in May and on semi-slicks on a wet day, although traction under power was still v good) and - again - I'm sure more work has been done there too.
I'll post again once I take delivery!
Looks: @scubadude / @macky17
I agree the colour combos are a bit garish, I've ordered mine with the wings etc in the same grey as the aero sections with the rest black/as standard. (@macky17 if you could use your expertise to knock up a photoshop of that I'd love to see it - otherwise I'm looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.)
Size/space: @owenk:
I'm 6'4" and 100kgs and have driven the prototype E10. No issue from a size/space perspective - a lot more space than a Caterham etc obviously. I'm 36" in the leg and I drove the prototype without the pedals fully down the footwell (they are adjustable). There is plenty of knee space, but I'm going to need a moulded seat to get the support under my thighs. The guys have agreed to mould one for me when I pick it up - which is pretty cool.
I should be getting mine pretty soon but have also emailed them today to see if I can get the S upgrade on the back of Dan's review.
Other thoughts: I've only driven the non-s version on the road and before the engine had been fully tuned. One of my first impressions was that it had an extremely compliant ride. The steering was lovely and it was plenty quick enough to have a blast. Handling was pretty balanced, if slightly understeery for my liking, but after less than 30mins in the car I found both under-steer and power-oversteer with less than 200bhp, so it's very approachable.
Negatives: I wasn't that impressed with the feel of the gearstick (although I drive one back in May and I'm sure more work has been done since then) and I don't know why they are sticking with such a long, standard lever (that'll be one of the first upgrades if I can get a shorter one). It also took me a while to get used to the brakes which I thought were v stuff and a bit lacking in modulation (again, this was back in May and on semi-slicks on a wet day, although traction under power was still v good) and - again - I'm sure more work has been done there too.
I'll post again once I take delivery!
Edited by Backhouse on Wednesday 18th March 07:57
framerateuk said:
Looks fantastic.
I'm really looking forward to the E11. I love the look of the E10S, but I don't feel it's quite a 7 replacement. It just needs a little storage space and a proper soft top to be able to deal with all weather conditions.
There's a fair bit of clear space between the seats & the firewall as well as nooks & crannies with enough space for a "weekend bag" (24 French letters & a tooth brush).I'm really looking forward to the E11. I love the look of the E10S, but I don't feel it's quite a 7 replacement. It just needs a little storage space and a proper soft top to be able to deal with all weather conditions.
There are also locking storage compartments to the outside of both the driver and passenger footwells. Along with two soft side bags behind the seats, I think a lightly packed weekend trip would work out. I did a 4000 mile trip in the Rossion (newer Noble M400) with only soft bags behind the seats.
I intend on taking the E10s across the USA this summer, on a 3500 mile trip.
I intend on taking the E10s across the USA this summer, on a 3500 mile trip.
We get our S in a few weeks - can't say I had any issue with the lever position at all. Closest point to the steering wheel which makes sense on a road/track car.
If you drive with a hand down on the lever on the road it may feel a little tall at first. Most modified track cars have a lever closer to the steering wheel than a road car - just makes shifts quicker.
The throw is really a function of the donor gearbox I guess and if theres not a quick-shifter conversion out there to address that I'd be surprised.
Lowering would be an action of aesthetics - not function
Each to their own however!
If you drive with a hand down on the lever on the road it may feel a little tall at first. Most modified track cars have a lever closer to the steering wheel than a road car - just makes shifts quicker.
The throw is really a function of the donor gearbox I guess and if theres not a quick-shifter conversion out there to address that I'd be surprised.
Lowering would be an action of aesthetics - not function
Each to their own however!
I agree with v6charger re the position. What I wasn't so keen on was the aesthetics of the standard lever and the feel of the long-throw, light-weight action - which I didn't feel matched the firmness of the other controls.
Obviously a function of the donor parts and a quick google reveals a lot of options for shortening the throw of the lever action (which I assume would add weight as well). I guess targeting a strict price (which is good for affordability) requires some compromises!
Still can't wait to get my hands on mine.
Obviously a function of the donor parts and a quick google reveals a lot of options for shortening the throw of the lever action (which I assume would add weight as well). I guess targeting a strict price (which is good for affordability) requires some compromises!
Still can't wait to get my hands on mine.
Edited by Backhouse on Thursday 19th March 01:11
I suspect that things like quality of the gear knob are the sort of minor details that can very quickly push up the cost of production and therefore the price of the car.
I was talking to one of the Zenos team about the badge on the nose of the car at the Autosport show, which is basically just a sticker. Apparently they looked at the cost of producing something of higher quality, but it would've meant investing thousands in a production tool. In the grand scheme of things it's probably not a lot of money, but a few thousand here, a few thousand there, and before you know it, you either put the price of the car up, or you're manufacturing them as a loss.
I was talking to one of the Zenos team about the badge on the nose of the car at the Autosport show, which is basically just a sticker. Apparently they looked at the cost of producing something of higher quality, but it would've meant investing thousands in a production tool. In the grand scheme of things it's probably not a lot of money, but a few thousand here, a few thousand there, and before you know it, you either put the price of the car up, or you're manufacturing them as a loss.
Has anyone else that has ordered one been told about delays in production? I have mine on order and after I paid my 50% second payment was told that there is a delay of about a month. I understand that when producing a new vehicle there are inevitable delays, but I have not seen anyone else commenting on this.
By the way, I'm 6'4" and had no issues. I was very comfortable and could push the car as much as I dared on wet roads. I am so looking forward to getting delivery of my car.
By the way, I'm 6'4" and had no issues. I was very comfortable and could push the car as much as I dared on wet roads. I am so looking forward to getting delivery of my car.
gt750boy said:
Has anyone else that has ordered one been told about delays in production? I have mine on order and after I paid my 50% second payment was told that there is a delay of about a month. I understand that when producing a new vehicle there are inevitable delays, but I have not seen anyone else commenting on this.
By the way, I'm 6'4" and had no issues. I was very comfortable and could push the car as much as I dared on wet roads. I am so looking forward to getting delivery of my car.
I heard the same when i had also placed an order (subsequently cancelled due to work issues) nothing to worry about and i believe it affected everyone a little bit pushing it back slightly... By the way, I'm 6'4" and had no issues. I was very comfortable and could push the car as much as I dared on wet roads. I am so looking forward to getting delivery of my car.
gt750boy said:
Has anyone else that has ordered one been told about delays in production? I have mine on order and after I paid my 50% second payment was told that there is a delay of about a month. I understand that when producing a new vehicle there are inevitable delays, but I have not seen anyone else commenting on this.
I recently paid my 50% second payment, but have not yet received confirmation of the delivery date. I expect the manufacturing process will be very different from the assembly of the show car, and will probably take a few weeks to get properly up to speed.I drove the blue car in this article yesterday afternoon, and had a good natter with the Zenos team.
My thoughts are pretty much in line with the press verdicts and the jammy gits above who have got their names down:
The E10S engine – as everyone says, it’s very linear, there’s no real noticeable turbo lag and it potters around happily at low revs. And it’s really stonking fast, lots of torque too. It feels really sorted, and not intimidating at all. It does make some outrageously filthy turbo noises, the video in the article doesn’t really capture it in full – sounds like Darth Vader being given a thorough rogering. Though apparently they may tone it down a tad for the production cars.
I loved the E10S engine, however… afterwards I re-did the road route in my 134bhp Elise, expecting it to feel a little rubbish in comparison. It didn’t actually, just different. I wonder if you’d have more fun in the bog standard E10 – less torque, so you couldn’t be lazy and would have to work it harder through the gears. I’m not bothered about being the quickest car at a trackday anyway. Personal preference of course, so maybe don’t rule out the NA engine and try both. Although if you do like big power, I guess the E10S engine must be quite tuneable…
Gearchange – in isolation it’s fine, and you do get used to it quickly. There’s nothing wrong with it, however the weighting and action doesn’t feel quite consistent with the other controls (steering, pedals, etc). To be honest, it’s only a slight disappointment because the weighting and feel of all the other controls is so ‘right’. If I bought one, I’d hacksaw the gear lever shorter and stick on a weighted gearknob.
Ride and handling – you can really feel what the car is doing, it’s predicable / consistent, the steering is a lot like an Elise. That’s all I can really say – the rest is down to damper settings, anti roll bar settings and geometry. I reckon you could have some fun playing around with it to suit personal tastes, although the setup on yesterday’s car felt very well judged on track and on the road.
Fit and finish – to be honest, I was expecting a slightly ropey pre-production car, perhaps due to the photos of prototypes in the press last year. However, the whole thing just looks and feels really tight, and finished. On the road, it doesn’t rattle and creak over bumps / potholes (even on track suspension settings), and it’s surprisingly refined with the windscreen on. It doesn’t have that vulnerable feeling you get in a Caterham – maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing. In short, it actually feels like a normal car.
One thing not really mentioned much – I had a good chat with all of the Zenos team, and was impressed. Quite frankly I was just a random punter who they’d never met / spoken to before, but they spent a lot of time with me. They were all incredibly professional, but also very friendly and approachable. I watched them obsessively checking the car between runs, they clearly have a huge amount of pride in it. Hopefully that doesn't sound too gushing! I think this would be a big part of the whole ownership experience – as a contrast, look at how people have been treated in the undignified scuffle for Cayman GT4 / 991 GT3 RS build slots. Although Porsche do give me much nicer coffee and posh biscuits too.
I think my overall impression was that it’s a very cohesive, properly engineered product – there’s just an inherent ‘rightness’ about it. Often cars in this market can feel like they’ve been knocked up in a shed using bits from the parts bin, and still need some ongoing development, but that’s absolutely not the case here. I’m sure some tweaks will happen over time, but I’d feel pretty confident buying the car now. It’s also something new and exciting, unlike yet another special edition Elise – there was a lot of interest in it at Brands Hatch yesterday. Good value too, given the performance. Might mull it over and do some creative accounting over the weekend…
Either way, there's more choice for us, and hopefully it'll make Lotus and Caterham push the game on. Happy days all round, then.
My thoughts are pretty much in line with the press verdicts and the jammy gits above who have got their names down:
The E10S engine – as everyone says, it’s very linear, there’s no real noticeable turbo lag and it potters around happily at low revs. And it’s really stonking fast, lots of torque too. It feels really sorted, and not intimidating at all. It does make some outrageously filthy turbo noises, the video in the article doesn’t really capture it in full – sounds like Darth Vader being given a thorough rogering. Though apparently they may tone it down a tad for the production cars.
I loved the E10S engine, however… afterwards I re-did the road route in my 134bhp Elise, expecting it to feel a little rubbish in comparison. It didn’t actually, just different. I wonder if you’d have more fun in the bog standard E10 – less torque, so you couldn’t be lazy and would have to work it harder through the gears. I’m not bothered about being the quickest car at a trackday anyway. Personal preference of course, so maybe don’t rule out the NA engine and try both. Although if you do like big power, I guess the E10S engine must be quite tuneable…
Gearchange – in isolation it’s fine, and you do get used to it quickly. There’s nothing wrong with it, however the weighting and action doesn’t feel quite consistent with the other controls (steering, pedals, etc). To be honest, it’s only a slight disappointment because the weighting and feel of all the other controls is so ‘right’. If I bought one, I’d hacksaw the gear lever shorter and stick on a weighted gearknob.
Ride and handling – you can really feel what the car is doing, it’s predicable / consistent, the steering is a lot like an Elise. That’s all I can really say – the rest is down to damper settings, anti roll bar settings and geometry. I reckon you could have some fun playing around with it to suit personal tastes, although the setup on yesterday’s car felt very well judged on track and on the road.
Fit and finish – to be honest, I was expecting a slightly ropey pre-production car, perhaps due to the photos of prototypes in the press last year. However, the whole thing just looks and feels really tight, and finished. On the road, it doesn’t rattle and creak over bumps / potholes (even on track suspension settings), and it’s surprisingly refined with the windscreen on. It doesn’t have that vulnerable feeling you get in a Caterham – maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing. In short, it actually feels like a normal car.
One thing not really mentioned much – I had a good chat with all of the Zenos team, and was impressed. Quite frankly I was just a random punter who they’d never met / spoken to before, but they spent a lot of time with me. They were all incredibly professional, but also very friendly and approachable. I watched them obsessively checking the car between runs, they clearly have a huge amount of pride in it. Hopefully that doesn't sound too gushing! I think this would be a big part of the whole ownership experience – as a contrast, look at how people have been treated in the undignified scuffle for Cayman GT4 / 991 GT3 RS build slots. Although Porsche do give me much nicer coffee and posh biscuits too.
I think my overall impression was that it’s a very cohesive, properly engineered product – there’s just an inherent ‘rightness’ about it. Often cars in this market can feel like they’ve been knocked up in a shed using bits from the parts bin, and still need some ongoing development, but that’s absolutely not the case here. I’m sure some tweaks will happen over time, but I’d feel pretty confident buying the car now. It’s also something new and exciting, unlike yet another special edition Elise – there was a lot of interest in it at Brands Hatch yesterday. Good value too, given the performance. Might mull it over and do some creative accounting over the weekend…
Either way, there's more choice for us, and hopefully it'll make Lotus and Caterham push the game on. Happy days all round, then.
McDuck said:
I drove the blue car in this article yesterday afternoon, and had a good natter with the Zenos team.
My thoughts are pretty much in line with the press verdicts and the jammy gits above who have got their names down:
The E10S engine – as everyone says, it’s very linear, there’s no real noticeable turbo lag and it potters around happily at low revs. And it’s really stonking fast, lots of torque too. It feels really sorted, and not intimidating at all. It does make some outrageously filthy turbo noises, the video in the article doesn’t really capture it in full – sounds like Darth Vader being given a thorough rogering. Though apparently they may tone it down a tad for the production cars.
I loved the E10S engine, however… afterwards I re-did the road route in my 134bhp Elise, expecting it to feel a little rubbish in comparison. It didn’t actually, just different. I wonder if you’d have more fun in the bog standard E10 – less torque, so you couldn’t be lazy and would have to work it harder through the gears. I’m not bothered about being the quickest car at a trackday anyway. Personal preference of course, so maybe don’t rule out the NA engine and try both. Although if you do like big power, I guess the E10S engine must be quite tuneable…
Gearchange – in isolation it’s fine, and you do get used to it quickly. There’s nothing wrong with it, however the weighting and action doesn’t feel quite consistent with the other controls (steering, pedals, etc). To be honest, it’s only a slight disappointment because the weighting and feel of all the other controls is so ‘right’. If I bought one, I’d hacksaw the gear lever shorter and stick on a weighted gearknob.
Ride and handling – you can really feel what the car is doing, it’s predicable / consistent, the steering is a lot like an Elise. That’s all I can really say – the rest is down to damper settings, anti roll bar settings and geometry. I reckon you could have some fun playing around with it to suit personal tastes, although the setup on yesterday’s car felt very well judged on track and on the road.
Fit and finish – to be honest, I was expecting a slightly ropey pre-production car, perhaps due to the photos of prototypes in the press last year. However, the whole thing just looks and feels really tight, and finished. On the road, it doesn’t rattle and creak over bumps / potholes (even on track suspension settings), and it’s surprisingly refined with the windscreen on. It doesn’t have that vulnerable feeling you get in a Caterham – maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing. In short, it actually feels like a normal car.
One thing not really mentioned much – I had a good chat with all of the Zenos team, and was impressed. Quite frankly I was just a random punter who they’d never met / spoken to before, but they spent a lot of time with me. They were all incredibly professional, but also very friendly and approachable. I watched them obsessively checking the car between runs, they clearly have a huge amount of pride in it. Hopefully that doesn't sound too gushing! I think this would be a big part of the whole ownership experience – as a contrast, look at how people have been treated in the undignified scuffle for Cayman GT4 / 991 GT3 RS build slots. Although Porsche do give me much nicer coffee and posh biscuits too.
I think my overall impression was that it’s a very cohesive, properly engineered product – there’s just an inherent ‘rightness’ about it. Often cars in this market can feel like they’ve been knocked up in a shed using bits from the parts bin, and still need some ongoing development, but that’s absolutely not the case here. I’m sure some tweaks will happen over time, but I’d feel pretty confident buying the car now. It’s also something new and exciting, unlike yet another special edition Elise – there was a lot of interest in it at Brands Hatch yesterday. Good value too, given the performance. Might mull it over and do some creative accounting over the weekend…
Either way, there's more choice for us, and hopefully it'll make Lotus and Caterham push the game on. Happy days all round, then.
Interesting post. Thanks for the insight. Hasn't it made you wonder, why anyone would spend 40k+ on the Elise when this appears to equal it in a lot ways and costs a lot less? My thoughts are pretty much in line with the press verdicts and the jammy gits above who have got their names down:
The E10S engine – as everyone says, it’s very linear, there’s no real noticeable turbo lag and it potters around happily at low revs. And it’s really stonking fast, lots of torque too. It feels really sorted, and not intimidating at all. It does make some outrageously filthy turbo noises, the video in the article doesn’t really capture it in full – sounds like Darth Vader being given a thorough rogering. Though apparently they may tone it down a tad for the production cars.
I loved the E10S engine, however… afterwards I re-did the road route in my 134bhp Elise, expecting it to feel a little rubbish in comparison. It didn’t actually, just different. I wonder if you’d have more fun in the bog standard E10 – less torque, so you couldn’t be lazy and would have to work it harder through the gears. I’m not bothered about being the quickest car at a trackday anyway. Personal preference of course, so maybe don’t rule out the NA engine and try both. Although if you do like big power, I guess the E10S engine must be quite tuneable…
Gearchange – in isolation it’s fine, and you do get used to it quickly. There’s nothing wrong with it, however the weighting and action doesn’t feel quite consistent with the other controls (steering, pedals, etc). To be honest, it’s only a slight disappointment because the weighting and feel of all the other controls is so ‘right’. If I bought one, I’d hacksaw the gear lever shorter and stick on a weighted gearknob.
Ride and handling – you can really feel what the car is doing, it’s predicable / consistent, the steering is a lot like an Elise. That’s all I can really say – the rest is down to damper settings, anti roll bar settings and geometry. I reckon you could have some fun playing around with it to suit personal tastes, although the setup on yesterday’s car felt very well judged on track and on the road.
Fit and finish – to be honest, I was expecting a slightly ropey pre-production car, perhaps due to the photos of prototypes in the press last year. However, the whole thing just looks and feels really tight, and finished. On the road, it doesn’t rattle and creak over bumps / potholes (even on track suspension settings), and it’s surprisingly refined with the windscreen on. It doesn’t have that vulnerable feeling you get in a Caterham – maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing. In short, it actually feels like a normal car.
One thing not really mentioned much – I had a good chat with all of the Zenos team, and was impressed. Quite frankly I was just a random punter who they’d never met / spoken to before, but they spent a lot of time with me. They were all incredibly professional, but also very friendly and approachable. I watched them obsessively checking the car between runs, they clearly have a huge amount of pride in it. Hopefully that doesn't sound too gushing! I think this would be a big part of the whole ownership experience – as a contrast, look at how people have been treated in the undignified scuffle for Cayman GT4 / 991 GT3 RS build slots. Although Porsche do give me much nicer coffee and posh biscuits too.
I think my overall impression was that it’s a very cohesive, properly engineered product – there’s just an inherent ‘rightness’ about it. Often cars in this market can feel like they’ve been knocked up in a shed using bits from the parts bin, and still need some ongoing development, but that’s absolutely not the case here. I’m sure some tweaks will happen over time, but I’d feel pretty confident buying the car now. It’s also something new and exciting, unlike yet another special edition Elise – there was a lot of interest in it at Brands Hatch yesterday. Good value too, given the performance. Might mull it over and do some creative accounting over the weekend…
Either way, there's more choice for us, and hopefully it'll make Lotus and Caterham push the game on. Happy days all round, then.
chelme said:
Interesting post. Thanks for the insight. Hasn't it made you wonder, why anyone would spend 40k+ on the Elise when this appears to equal it in a lot ways and costs a lot less?
The Elise has a roof, doors, airbags etc and is easy to live with day to day, as well as being homologated to sell to many different overseas markets. The Xenos is none of those so it seems an odd comparison to make.braddo said:
The Elise has a roof, doors, airbags etc and is easy to live with day to day, as well as being homologated to sell to many different overseas markets. The Xenos is none of those so it seems an odd comparison to make.In fact just stick a little "distance radar" on the back of the car for carparking, stick removable glasses to match the weather hood and you're good to go! Who needs doors anyway
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