S2000 comedy pricing and Z3 2.8 for near shed money
Discussion
Can anyone tell me why there is so much inconsistency in Honda S2000 prices? I like them, but there is no way in my mind that a 2004 model is 10 grand worth (or more in some cases).
And does that make a circa 2000 Z3 2.8 litre for around 4k, the shed-like top-down continental road trip bargain of the decade?
If the S2000 is very clean and stock then the prices will be pretty high. There's not many of them about (clean & stock) if the market is anything like where I am. Also, the earlier models are considered more 'pure' as they were later compromised, you could argue, to pander to the masses that kept chucking them backwards through hedges.
Even 7 years ago when I sold mine I had a bidding war break out on it because everyone said they found it nigh on impossible to find really good examples. Ran it for three years and didn't lose a penny.
It's also one of those car that is touted as a future classic - whether it works out that way is a different matter. the BMW will never be spoken about in that way.
Even 7 years ago when I sold mine I had a bidding war break out on it because everyone said they found it nigh on impossible to find really good examples. Ran it for three years and didn't lose a penny.
It's also one of those car that is touted as a future classic - whether it works out that way is a different matter. the BMW will never be spoken about in that way.
The S2000, whether we like them or not, is regarded as a bit of a classic car. It has character, a personality and is a unique, bespoke model that was a one-off in Honda's line up without a direct predecessor or successor. The BMW Z3, though many rate it as a great car, is just simply an old BMW sports car, one in a line of BMW sports cars and probably regarded as old hat compared to the latest. The BMW would have to be quite a bit older and in top condition to begin appreciating significantly, I think. Being a classic has little to do with a car's real merits: I loved my S2000 but it had some real flaws, too. Possibly a Z3 would have been in many ways a 'better' car, but for me, the S2000's mad engine, charisma and the Honda nerdiness were very appealing.
I bought my S2000 almost exactly a year ago for £9k (2007, 37k miles) and I figured I'd sell it next summer for maybe £13k, judging by how prices were going. I won't get the chance to see if that theory works, as I wrote it off a couple of weeks ago
.... but the insurers valued it at £11,600 based, they said, on industry guides and two similar examples on Autotrader. When I looked at using that money to get a replacement S2000, I didn't think I'd get one as good as mine had been, so there we go...
I bought my S2000 almost exactly a year ago for £9k (2007, 37k miles) and I figured I'd sell it next summer for maybe £13k, judging by how prices were going. I won't get the chance to see if that theory works, as I wrote it off a couple of weeks ago
.... but the insurers valued it at £11,600 based, they said, on industry guides and two similar examples on Autotrader. When I looked at using that money to get a replacement S2000, I didn't think I'd get one as good as mine had been, so there we go... Is it because there is a bit of a shortage of new roadsters that aren't MX5's or some folding metal roof contraption ?
No MR2 any more, no S2000, a Boxster is 40 grand, a 370Z is 30 odd, the current Z4 is a bit of an expensive afterthought, the SLK is nice but expensive, not everybody wants a four seat convertible, enthusiasts dont want diesel or FWD.
The S2000 looks good, has a pretty good image and goes well, they arent making any more so I can see how prices are climbing, when I was looking there were plenty in the 4 to 6 grand price bracket, also, they are comparatively rare with only about 7000 on UK roads and dwindling given the hedge seeking tendencies.
I think we may be in the early throws of that time we will look back on wishing we had got one, or not sold one, I would say it is a no brainer, maybe even the next GT86 or MK1/2 Escort.
No MR2 any more, no S2000, a Boxster is 40 grand, a 370Z is 30 odd, the current Z4 is a bit of an expensive afterthought, the SLK is nice but expensive, not everybody wants a four seat convertible, enthusiasts dont want diesel or FWD.
The S2000 looks good, has a pretty good image and goes well, they arent making any more so I can see how prices are climbing, when I was looking there were plenty in the 4 to 6 grand price bracket, also, they are comparatively rare with only about 7000 on UK roads and dwindling given the hedge seeking tendencies.
I think we may be in the early throws of that time we will look back on wishing we had got one, or not sold one, I would say it is a no brainer, maybe even the next GT86 or MK1/2 Escort.
I owned 2 S2000's - 2003 car and 2006.
2003 car drove slightly better but the 2006 car had a much nicer overall look both interior and exterior.
Key issue with the S2000 is the fairly numb steering feel.
Best points are that 9000 rpm redline engine and the amazing gearshift (when warm).
Clutches have an awful clutch delay valve which needs removing but clutches only last 40-60k miles (changed at 44k in my first car).
The roof is very fast but single layer so doesn't keep the noise out, good and bad as on a motorway cruise it does get tiring.
I drove both my cars as daily drives and loved them - averaged 24mpg.
If I was to buy another it would be a used 2008 car in white.
2003 car drove slightly better but the 2006 car had a much nicer overall look both interior and exterior.
Key issue with the S2000 is the fairly numb steering feel.
Best points are that 9000 rpm redline engine and the amazing gearshift (when warm).
Clutches have an awful clutch delay valve which needs removing but clutches only last 40-60k miles (changed at 44k in my first car).
The roof is very fast but single layer so doesn't keep the noise out, good and bad as on a motorway cruise it does get tiring.
I drove both my cars as daily drives and loved them - averaged 24mpg.
If I was to buy another it would be a used 2008 car in white.
a z3 2.8 at 4k might even be on the expensive side 
you should be getting a 3.0 for that - much better car...
owning a 3.0 z3 - it is a lot of car for the money, does the s2000 tempt me? not really as commented elsewhere, to really use its engine you need to be screaming around at high revs, so you either stay in second gear or you are travelling very fast! the z3 comes alive over 3,000 revs and is a joy to drive...
no idea where the belief that it is a bad drivers car comes from, it handles very well - perhaps not elise level, but still very good and having used mine recently on a course where we took it around a proving ground - it is far more competent than I expected
there are already signs that prices have bottomed out, on the z forums people are talking about it being difficult to find them - esp. the 2.8 / 3.0 - and definitely the m versions which have shot up in price recently...
and very few mechanical issues with them - compared to some of the horror stories with other similar age soft-tops they are virtually bullet proof
so, yes, def. a bargain - but might not be for much longer
you should be getting a 3.0 for that - much better car...owning a 3.0 z3 - it is a lot of car for the money, does the s2000 tempt me? not really as commented elsewhere, to really use its engine you need to be screaming around at high revs, so you either stay in second gear or you are travelling very fast! the z3 comes alive over 3,000 revs and is a joy to drive...
no idea where the belief that it is a bad drivers car comes from, it handles very well - perhaps not elise level, but still very good and having used mine recently on a course where we took it around a proving ground - it is far more competent than I expected
there are already signs that prices have bottomed out, on the z forums people are talking about it being difficult to find them - esp. the 2.8 / 3.0 - and definitely the m versions which have shot up in price recently...
and very few mechanical issues with them - compared to some of the horror stories with other similar age soft-tops they are virtually bullet proof
so, yes, def. a bargain - but might not be for much longer
I own an S2000 that I bought at the start of november last year. Prices have rose considerably since then. It's supply and demand at the end of the day, people are willing to pay top prices for good condition cars so good condition cars are priced accordingly. As with most convertibles, the prices do rise the closer you get to summer as more people are in the market for them.
I bought mine as a stop gap for a Z4M but it's really got under my skin and I'll definitely be hanging onto it for a while. They are not cheap cars to run, if the suspension bush bolts are seized you are looking at anything from around £600-£1000 to get them done and it's not easy to check when you go and buy one. Having free suspension bush bolts allows the geometry to be set correctly which is crucial for the handling (double wishbone suspension on all 4 corners so everything is adjustable). Parts are also ludicrously expensive for most things.
I bought mine as a stop gap for a Z4M but it's really got under my skin and I'll definitely be hanging onto it for a while. They are not cheap cars to run, if the suspension bush bolts are seized you are looking at anything from around £600-£1000 to get them done and it's not easy to check when you go and buy one. Having free suspension bush bolts allows the geometry to be set correctly which is crucial for the handling (double wishbone suspension on all 4 corners so everything is adjustable). Parts are also ludicrously expensive for most things.
I am surprised how much they have gone up. I sold a black 2001 car with just 75k miles on for £4800 4 years ago.
It was a disappointment for me.
Build quality was awful, roof noise which is fixed with spacers, roof tears behind window, crappy plastic screen on early models, handling no where near the hype and cars are very sensitive to tyres and suspension problems.
Engine is addictive, they look good and its a nice place to sit.
It was a disappointment for me.
Build quality was awful, roof noise which is fixed with spacers, roof tears behind window, crappy plastic screen on early models, handling no where near the hype and cars are very sensitive to tyres and suspension problems.
Engine is addictive, they look good and its a nice place to sit.
If you are eyeing 2.8 Z3s for £4K (which I'd agree is a little over priced), Id find an extra grand or so and get a 3.0 Z4.
I own a Z3 (2.0 manual, facelift), purely because I stumbled across it at a garage who seemingly hadn't bothered to look at values and gave it away for £1750. Was meant to be a bit of cheap summer fun last year, but I've held onto it due to its being surprisingly good.
The 2.8 Z3 is a great little thing- meaty 6 cylinder in a little roadster. Even the humble 2.0 six in my car (~150hp) is quite a pleasant lump with the top down. Quite a refined cruiser for what it is too.
Whilst I can honestly say that the Z3 has been a pleasant surprise, it's not going to entertain like an S2000 (or indeed a mk1 MX5, of which I've owned a couple).
Is the S2000 worth all the extra £££s over a big-engined Z3? I don't believe so, but then the S2000 is well-regarded (which the Z3 is definitely not) and I'm sure any good S2000 will appreciate now. The only Z3 that will appreciate in anything like the same way will be an M Roadster (or the vastly more rare/ expensive coupe). If you want to see what the M Roadster is capable of, find the video of Tiff ragging it on YouTube.
Since realising that 3.0 Z4s can be had for not much more than £5K, I probably wouldn't look at another Z3.
If the budget went up to ~£8K, I'd be looking at a Z4 coupe over an S2000, unless you need to get the top down.
I loved the S2000 for years when there were lots of good 'uns sub £5K. They've gotten too expensive now imho, particularly given that the early ones (AP1?) had handling issues. VTec power delivery is also an acquired taste, particularly in comparison to a big BMW 6 cylinder.
I own a Z3 (2.0 manual, facelift), purely because I stumbled across it at a garage who seemingly hadn't bothered to look at values and gave it away for £1750. Was meant to be a bit of cheap summer fun last year, but I've held onto it due to its being surprisingly good.
The 2.8 Z3 is a great little thing- meaty 6 cylinder in a little roadster. Even the humble 2.0 six in my car (~150hp) is quite a pleasant lump with the top down. Quite a refined cruiser for what it is too.
Whilst I can honestly say that the Z3 has been a pleasant surprise, it's not going to entertain like an S2000 (or indeed a mk1 MX5, of which I've owned a couple).
Is the S2000 worth all the extra £££s over a big-engined Z3? I don't believe so, but then the S2000 is well-regarded (which the Z3 is definitely not) and I'm sure any good S2000 will appreciate now. The only Z3 that will appreciate in anything like the same way will be an M Roadster (or the vastly more rare/ expensive coupe). If you want to see what the M Roadster is capable of, find the video of Tiff ragging it on YouTube.
Since realising that 3.0 Z4s can be had for not much more than £5K, I probably wouldn't look at another Z3.
If the budget went up to ~£8K, I'd be looking at a Z4 coupe over an S2000, unless you need to get the top down.
I loved the S2000 for years when there were lots of good 'uns sub £5K. They've gotten too expensive now imho, particularly given that the early ones (AP1?) had handling issues. VTec power delivery is also an acquired taste, particularly in comparison to a big BMW 6 cylinder.
I hadn't noticed the prices going up, so am quite surprised after a quick look on eBay.
I test drove one quite a few years ago and absolutely hated it; couldnt get used to the loud/screamy engine with all the power top-end....8000 rpm in a car just grated against my mechanical sympathy, even though that's the intention of these engines. I remember driving down the motorway with the engine screaming at 70mph - yuk! I was really disappointed, as I loved the idea and look of them at the time but there's no way I'd want one now.
I test drove one quite a few years ago and absolutely hated it; couldnt get used to the loud/screamy engine with all the power top-end....8000 rpm in a car just grated against my mechanical sympathy, even though that's the intention of these engines. I remember driving down the motorway with the engine screaming at 70mph - yuk! I was really disappointed, as I loved the idea and look of them at the time but there's no way I'd want one now.
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