RE: Honda Civic Type R: Driven
Discussion
Oz83 said:
Did Honda not even bother to listen or read the criticisms at that point in the project. Its like they spent years developing the engineering side (which has obviously worked) then let the bean counters finish the design.
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.otolith said:
Oz83 said:
Did Honda not even bother to listen or read the criticisms at that point in the project. Its like they spent years developing the engineering side (which has obviously worked) then let the bean counters finish the design.
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.I'd take it over the VAG options, and the French one. It may be ugly, but it's not bland and it's functionally ugly. Like the rally reps, which also looked pig ugly and a bit Halfords at the time, the irony being that the Halfords approach is the facsimile of aerodynamic technology and this is the real thing. But I'm off hot hatches, so it's academic.
I don't mind shouty cars, IF they are done right. I've owned a classic shape Impreza and two GT-R's so not exactly a shrinking violet.
However as shouty as those cars are they were at least cohesive. this I'm afraid is just gash. The front is OK but that back, oh dear god. Arches that don't match the front, a double spoiler with added wings, you know because the extra spoiler wasn't enough. A hideous rear splitter and 4 EXHAUSTS, really 4??? I don't know if it was the engineers or the designers who messed this up but someone at Honda needs shooting.
It really is a shame, as I think the Golf R is the most sleep inducing hot hatch in the history of hot hatches so Honda had the chance to really light a fire under those boring Germans. If it looked more like the concept which was 10x more cohesive I'd be knocking down my Honda dealers door, as it is I'll wait for the facelift in the vain hope that they'll fix it or this engine in something that hasn't been repeatedly whacked by the ugly stick. Bitterly disappointing.
However as shouty as those cars are they were at least cohesive. this I'm afraid is just gash. The front is OK but that back, oh dear god. Arches that don't match the front, a double spoiler with added wings, you know because the extra spoiler wasn't enough. A hideous rear splitter and 4 EXHAUSTS, really 4??? I don't know if it was the engineers or the designers who messed this up but someone at Honda needs shooting.
It really is a shame, as I think the Golf R is the most sleep inducing hot hatch in the history of hot hatches so Honda had the chance to really light a fire under those boring Germans. If it looked more like the concept which was 10x more cohesive I'd be knocking down my Honda dealers door, as it is I'll wait for the facelift in the vain hope that they'll fix it or this engine in something that hasn't been repeatedly whacked by the ugly stick. Bitterly disappointing.
otolith said:
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.
I'm not convinced. I suspect the concept was used to develop the aero then the bean counters decided what could be put into production so, instead of proper panel arch extensions we get slabs of plastic. Instead of having the vents on the bonnet, they put them on the wings which had to be altered anyway, and so a standard bonnet could be used to cut production cost. Instead of the "devil horn" spoiler, which became iconic in the lead up to the launch, they went with a standard tail gate and tacked on, easy to fit, rear spoiler. So we get a pastiche of the concept instead of the fantastically well resolved original. Functional aero, yes, but still the same decontenting that the EP3 and FN2 both suffered from prior to launch resulting in a car that's far uglier than the car we thought we'd see.Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 3rd June 17:59
pardonmyenglish said:
The fn2 is a real beauty compared to this monster.
There used to be a time when honda high performance versions were very subtle: crx, civic (ee9, eg6, ek4), prelude...
Bingo. Even EP3 and FN2 were handsome, if not pretty, cars. Unfortunately, this is based on a car that's styled by a 10 year old to start with, and then they handed it to his 13 year old big brother to style the Type R version....There used to be a time when honda high performance versions were very subtle: crx, civic (ee9, eg6, ek4), prelude...
bigaoi said:
So, what's with all the vitriol about four exhaust pipes ? Does having four instead of two not improve things (even on a four cylinder car) ?
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat. Ali_T said:
bigaoi said:
So, what's with all the vitriol about four exhaust pipes ? Does having four instead of two not improve things (even on a four cylinder car) ?
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat. Ali_T said:
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat.
Pretty sure I read it was 1384kgs with a full tank of fuel on the press release.."So at least every vent, spoiler, scoop and skirt has a purpose"
Notice they did not mention the four tail pipes in that comment, they stopped selling the Integra because it was too expensive for the market so I cannot see them selling as many as they quote of the Civic but who knows.
Notice they did not mention the four tail pipes in that comment, they stopped selling the Integra because it was too expensive for the market so I cannot see them selling as many as they quote of the Civic but who knows.
I'm afraid the looks a little too much for me. All those bits would look great on a Lambo, but for a hatch it's just a bit much. The other hot hatches have grown up, I feel this is appealing to a younger crowd that simply won't have the money for it.
If I was buying a fast but sensible car in that bracket I'd be looking at the Subaru STI or another Megane (without the stickers please).
If I was buying a fast but sensible car in that bracket I'd be looking at the Subaru STI or another Megane (without the stickers please).
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