RE: Honda Civic Type R: Driven

RE: Honda Civic Type R: Driven

Author
Discussion

otolith

56,206 posts

205 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Oz83 said:
Did Honda not even bother to listen or read the criticisms at that point in the project. Its like they spent years developing the engineering side (which has obviously worked) then let the bean counters finish the design.
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.

gungo

10 posts

143 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Really excited to read this article.
Then I watched (some of) the video. Oh Dear.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
otolith said:
Oz83 said:
Did Honda not even bother to listen or read the criticisms at that point in the project. Its like they spent years developing the engineering side (which has obviously worked) then let the bean counters finish the design.
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.
Indeed which makes the looks perfectly reasonable in my book. But I genuinely do not buy cars for their looks and don't give a monkeys what people think of my car. This is surely much more desirable than the Golf/S3 brigade and with an arguably better badge too.

otolith

56,206 posts

205 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I'd take it over the VAG options, and the French one. It may be ugly, but it's not bland and it's functionally ugly. Like the rally reps, which also looked pig ugly and a bit Halfords at the time, the irony being that the Halfords approach is the facsimile of aerodynamic technology and this is the real thing. But I'm off hot hatches, so it's academic.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I miss the sheer brilliance of my old DC2 but this looks like a worthy new model.

pardonmyenglish

107 posts

112 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
The fn2 is a real beauty compared to this monster.
There used to be a time when honda high performance versions were very subtle: crx, civic (ee9, eg6, ek4), prelude...


Guvernator

13,164 posts

166 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I don't mind shouty cars, IF they are done right. I've owned a classic shape Impreza and two GT-R's so not exactly a shrinking violet.

However as shouty as those cars are they were at least cohesive. this I'm afraid is just gash. The front is OK but that back, oh dear god. Arches that don't match the front, a double spoiler with added wings, you know because the extra spoiler wasn't enough. A hideous rear splitter and 4 EXHAUSTS, really 4??? I don't know if it was the engineers or the designers who messed this up but someone at Honda needs shooting.

It really is a shame, as I think the Golf R is the most sleep inducing hot hatch in the history of hot hatches so Honda had the chance to really light a fire under those boring Germans. If it looked more like the concept which was 10x more cohesive I'd be knocking down my Honda dealers door, as it is I'll wait for the facelift in the vain hope that they'll fix it or this engine in something that hasn't been repeatedly whacked by the ugly stick. Bitterly disappointing.

Ali_T

3,379 posts

258 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
otolith said:
As I understand it, the uglier bits of the design are largely functionally aerodynamic - so you might say that they let the engineers finish the design instead of leaving it to the people with felt tip pens and iMacs.
I'm not convinced. I suspect the concept was used to develop the aero then the bean counters decided what could be put into production so, instead of proper panel arch extensions we get slabs of plastic. Instead of having the vents on the bonnet, they put them on the wings which had to be altered anyway, and so a standard bonnet could be used to cut production cost. Instead of the "devil horn" spoiler, which became iconic in the lead up to the launch, they went with a standard tail gate and tacked on, easy to fit, rear spoiler. So we get a pastiche of the concept instead of the fantastically well resolved original. Functional aero, yes, but still the same decontenting that the EP3 and FN2 both suffered from prior to launch resulting in a car that's far uglier than the car we thought we'd see.


Edited by Ali_T on Wednesday 3rd June 17:59

Ali_T

3,379 posts

258 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
pardonmyenglish said:
The fn2 is a real beauty compared to this monster.
There used to be a time when honda high performance versions were very subtle: crx, civic (ee9, eg6, ek4), prelude...
Bingo. Even EP3 and FN2 were handsome, if not pretty, cars. Unfortunately, this is based on a car that's styled by a 10 year old to start with, and then they handed it to his 13 year old big brother to style the Type R version....

otolith

56,206 posts

205 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
It would be interesting to see at which phases of the development of the thing the changes were made, and in response to what.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
But the EP3 and FN2 were a bit crap to drive. I would rather a car drove properly than have good styling. And even those were hardly good looking.

Ved

3,825 posts

176 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Too expensive but I'd imagine they'll do nice discounts. As for the looks it's pretty bad, especially the front third. From head-on it's not too bad but it just looks out of proportion.

bigaoi

128 posts

158 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
So, what's with all the vitriol about four exhaust pipes ? Does having four instead of two not improve things (even on a four cylinder car) ?

Ali_T

3,379 posts

258 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
bigaoi said:
So, what's with all the vitriol about four exhaust pipes ? Does having four instead of two not improve things (even on a four cylinder car) ?
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat.

Happyjap

382 posts

110 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
This is not a handsome car, I hate the back tale, it is horrible but on the plus side I best is is a fast car and if in another color other than white I think it could be saved!

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Ali_T said:
bigaoi said:
So, what's with all the vitriol about four exhaust pipes ? Does having four instead of two not improve things (even on a four cylinder car) ?
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat.
Is it really that fat compared to the opposition? I am not sure it is. Besides, if it out-drives them, which by the sounds of things it may well do, does it really matter?

MrBarry123

6,028 posts

122 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I love this - great job Honda.

I can't help but think that it needs slightly wider arches though...

sinbad666

184 posts

209 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
Ali_T said:
It makes the exhaust considerably heavier. There's a reason 4 cylinder track or rally cars have only one pipe, and that's weight. And the wet weight of this Type R is going to be around 1430-1450kg which is a bit fat.
Pretty sure I read it was 1384kgs with a full tank of fuel on the press release..

dc2rr07

1,238 posts

232 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
"So at least every vent, spoiler, scoop and skirt has a purpose"

Notice they did not mention the four tail pipes in that comment, they stopped selling the Integra because it was too expensive for the market so I cannot see them selling as many as they quote of the Civic but who knows.

framerateuk

2,733 posts

185 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2015
quotequote all
I'm afraid the looks a little too much for me. All those bits would look great on a Lambo, but for a hatch it's just a bit much. The other hot hatches have grown up, I feel this is appealing to a younger crowd that simply won't have the money for it.

If I was buying a fast but sensible car in that bracket I'd be looking at the Subaru STI or another Megane (without the stickers please).