RE: Honda Civic Type R: Driven
Discussion
SidewaysSi said:
I can't think of one Honda that is good looking, save perhaps the S2000.
Looks are obviously subjective, but I think the FN2 is good looking, and the DC5 (in a fast and furious kind of way), and I'm rather fond of the CRZ too (shame they didn't make a hot version, spiritual successor to the CRX).Ali_T said:
EP3 Civic Type R 1205kg
FN2 Civic Type R1320kg 1267kg
Megane 275 Trophy R 1297kg
Hatches ave become far, far too fat. Though my little Alfa is 1320kg and Mazda should manage sub 1350kg for the upcoming 3MPS.
Considering the size of them, are you surprised? Unless you go for a tiny car like a Twingo, you're not going to get near the ton for a mid-sized hatch; The last Golf that managed to tip the scales under a ton for the hot model was released in the 80s, was it not?FN2 Civic Type R
Megane 275 Trophy R 1297kg
Hatches ave become far, far too fat. Though my little Alfa is 1320kg and Mazda should manage sub 1350kg for the upcoming 3MPS.
Mafffew said:
Axionknight said:
SAINTS PRESERVE US, what will the neighbours think? Scrap the order, I best get down to the local (terrible) VW dealership for some average build quality, German snooze fest!
That'll keep the fossils next door happy!
fThat'll keep the fossils next door happy!
k the neighbours, or just his wife in the back of their Jazz. 
GTEYE said:
The basic Civic shape is a munter, that's the problem, and no amount of add-ons can change that.
In fact, these tack-ons actually make it worse.
Whilst there might be a market amongst perhaps the younger audience for the slightly Max Power look, I doubt it's in the £30k bracket.
Golf R/S3/M135 thanks.
PS And a word of advice to Honda.....hiding the rear door handles doesn't make it look like a 3 door, it just makes it look silly. I can't think of a single car that this styling "trick" has actually worked.
Leon P1 and original Alfa 156 thanksIn fact, these tack-ons actually make it worse.
Whilst there might be a market amongst perhaps the younger audience for the slightly Max Power look, I doubt it's in the £30k bracket.
Golf R/S3/M135 thanks.
PS And a word of advice to Honda.....hiding the rear door handles doesn't make it look like a 3 door, it just makes it look silly. I can't think of a single car that this styling "trick" has actually worked.
Edited by GTEYE on Wednesday 3rd June 10:51
Antj said:
At last, first review to hit the nail on the head.
The second to last paragraph sums the main issue of this car up very well and eveyr other review has missed this point.
The Type R has jumped a league and it s out of its comfort zone.
The Type R should have been a circa 240-250bhp car with more subtle styling and a 24-26k price tag . The car we see now as the finished example should have been branded as a Type R Mugen. Now that would have made a lot more sense and a lot more sales for Honda.
It makes little sense as what it is is a car to appeal to 20 somethings with a pricetag attainable by 30 somethings a market the 135i and GolF R have pretty much bullseyed.
Shame,
Do you know who will buy it? Kids on Honda Tech that have grown up from dropping b-series and k-series engines in EG and EK Civics to looking for a family carrier while still dreaming about Honda. Afterwards they can "Spoon" and "Mugen" it up. Otherwise they have to go to Subaru WRX or similar models.The second to last paragraph sums the main issue of this car up very well and eveyr other review has missed this point.
The Type R has jumped a league and it s out of its comfort zone.
The Type R should have been a circa 240-250bhp car with more subtle styling and a 24-26k price tag . The car we see now as the finished example should have been branded as a Type R Mugen. Now that would have made a lot more sense and a lot more sales for Honda.
It makes little sense as what it is is a car to appeal to 20 somethings with a pricetag attainable by 30 somethings a market the 135i and GolF R have pretty much bullseyed.
Shame,
Same with Type R fans in Japan that first got the FD2, but got the FN2 "Euro" limited release. People that spend money at Type-One (Spoon), Seeker, Honda TwinCam, etc.
Edited by KJH on Thursday 4th June 21:36
TameRacingDriver said:
Considering the size of them, are you surprised? Unless you go for a tiny car like a Twingo, you're not going to get near the ton for a mid-sized hatch; The last Golf that managed to tip the scales under a ton for the hot model was released in the 80s, was it not?
Didn't say anything about under a ton. These days, under 1400kg is considered lightweight! With fluids, this new Civic will be over that. Golf R is nearly a ton and a half, but that's nothing compared to my old Evo X with SST. That was 1650kg!! The new Focus Rs could hit that level as well, as an ST is already just under the 1500kg mark. And you're wrong on the FN2 correction. Only the lightweight, stripped of equipment and back seat, FN2 they offered at launch and nobody bought, ever hit that target. Normal FN2s were 1320kg with fluids and half a tank when put on a weigh bridge.Edited by Ali_T on Thursday 4th June 22:24
Ali_T said:
TameRacingDriver said:
Considering the size of them, are you surprised? Unless you go for a tiny car like a Twingo, you're not going to get near the ton for a mid-sized hatch; The last Golf that managed to tip the scales under a ton for the hot model was released in the 80s, was it not?
Didn't say anything about under a ton. These days, under 1400kg is considered lightweight! With fluids, this new Civic will be over that. Golf R is nearly a ton and a half, but that's nothing compared to my old Evo X with SST. That was 1650kg!! The new Focus Rs could hit that level as well, as an ST is already just under the 1500kg mark. And you're wrong on the FN2 correction. Only the lightweight, stripped of equipment and back seat, FN2 they offered at launch and nobody bought, ever hit that target. Normal FN2s were 1320kg with fluids and half a tank when put on a weigh bridge.Edited by Ali_T on Thursday 4th June 22:24
Indeed, you can't compare the weight of this to a DC2. In the same vein, a DC2 is a fatty compared to a 205 GTI. Different cars, different eras, different legislation.
The Civic is on a par with the RS Megane and far less than 1.5 tonnes so not sure what you expect, particularly given it has 5 doors etc.
The Civic is on a par with the RS Megane and far less than 1.5 tonnes so not sure what you expect, particularly given it has 5 doors etc.
I suspect it will be an easier transition until this car for FN2 owners, they've already made peace with owning a car with a God awful rear profile. At least with this car they'll get back to having functional suspension 
I don't think it's unreasonable for late 20/thirty somethings to want something that is both quick and not embarrassing to pick someone up in, and that doesn't translate to binary "if you don't want lairy you must therefore want anodyne". There is a difference between striking looks and plain ugliness to most independent observers and I fear this strides the latter.
Will be keen to see one in the flesh anyway, but this doesn't intuitively feel like a return to match fitness from Honda. They screwed up with the previous model, and this isn't unambiguously better - and it needed to be.
I don't think it's unreasonable for late 20/thirty somethings to want something that is both quick and not embarrassing to pick someone up in, and that doesn't translate to binary "if you don't want lairy you must therefore want anodyne". There is a difference between striking looks and plain ugliness to most independent observers and I fear this strides the latter.
Will be keen to see one in the flesh anyway, but this doesn't intuitively feel like a return to match fitness from Honda. They screwed up with the previous model, and this isn't unambiguously better - and it needed to be.
Personally I would say it is more than a return for Honda. No Honda that I can remember has had such glowing initial reviews for being a sheer driver's car, DC2 included. Maybe the NSX but that was a generation ago and certainly no Civic (thinking only those officially sold in the UK).
Antj said:
At last, first review to hit the nail on the head.
The second to last paragraph sums the main issue of this car up very well and eveyr other review has missed this point.
The Type R has jumped a league and it s out of its comfort zone.
The Type R should have been a circa 240-250bhp car with more subtle styling and a 24-26k price tag . The car we see now as the finished example should have been branded as a Type R Mugen. Now that would have made a lot more sense and a lot more sales for Honda.
It makes little sense as what it is is a car to appeal to 20 somethings with a pricetag attainable by 30 somethings a market the 135i and GolF R have pretty much bullseyed.
Shame,
They have done this on purpose though. The head project engineer in an interview in Slovakia this week has said this is different to previous Type Rs. The point of this one is to showcase to the world what Honda can do and to show they still top the list on engineering ability, it's going back to being what a halo model should be. There is a reason why Honda have come back into F1, had a big push on BTCC and brought the Type R and NSX back at the same time. The second to last paragraph sums the main issue of this car up very well and eveyr other review has missed this point.
The Type R has jumped a league and it s out of its comfort zone.
The Type R should have been a circa 240-250bhp car with more subtle styling and a 24-26k price tag . The car we see now as the finished example should have been branded as a Type R Mugen. Now that would have made a lot more sense and a lot more sales for Honda.
It makes little sense as what it is is a car to appeal to 20 somethings with a pricetag attainable by 30 somethings a market the 135i and GolF R have pretty much bullseyed.
Shame,
Honda expect to sell around 1500 units in the first year so it's not going to be a big seller, although there is already a 5 month waiting list.
I personally think it looks excellent and that is also true of the majority of people on CTRO and TRO.
They will sell every single one of them, it will tear the Megane RS a new one on group tests and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't have the Focus RS licked too. If it doesn't then Honda have also said that there they will simply up the power even more as there is huge room for improvement in case they lose the ring record and have to get it back.
One in blue please
I would love a 305bhp hatch with a more subtle appearance, and I particularly hate the red seats. (Can't you give people the option of black ones?) It doesn't fit into my middle class lifestyle and I would look like an idiot driving for work in one. My wife hates the photos of them and I doubt I could convince her to raid our joint bank account without a divorce looming. It's not just striking- it's truly ugly. I might enjoy it 3-5% of the time on a back road but I'd feel like an idiot driving one.
But it's not for people like me.
Civic Type R's have never been subtle. This is a bit more lairy than most and as easy on the eye as a cataract. But there are people who want something fast, FWD and a bit silly, and they don't care what the rest of us think. Good on them. Variety is very welcome or else we'll all end up with Golf R estates.
Dear Honda, just do a detuned Type S too with less silly bodykit, so everyone's happy?
But it's not for people like me.
Civic Type R's have never been subtle. This is a bit more lairy than most and as easy on the eye as a cataract. But there are people who want something fast, FWD and a bit silly, and they don't care what the rest of us think. Good on them. Variety is very welcome or else we'll all end up with Golf R estates.
billy939 said:
there is already a 5 month waiting list.
And that means Honda are doing something right. It seems they even remembered to fit suspension to this one. Dear Honda, just do a detuned Type S too with less silly bodykit, so everyone's happy?
Whilst on topic regarding the Type S or Sport model, I prefer it to the Type R, I even like the look of it personally.
An exhaust delete panel and single exhaust conversion should be made available by the likes of Spoon Sports/Mugen for the new Type R immediately IMO.
And this comes from a current '99 DC2 Import owner complete with a Mugen wing.
An exhaust delete panel and single exhaust conversion should be made available by the likes of Spoon Sports/Mugen for the new Type R immediately IMO.
And this comes from a current '99 DC2 Import owner complete with a Mugen wing.
the-photographer said:
1,382kg (Honda figure with a full tank)
1,382kg GTI PP 3 door manual (fuel + driver)
1,476kg R 3 door manual (fuel + driver)
Quick calculations assuming the civic is without driver 68kgs and luggage 7kgs. For the Golfs 5 door models add 30kgs and adding additional weight for 100% fuel and not 90% for comparison - 50 litre tank). Assuming the Megane curb weight without driver was also without fuel (60litres)and luggage.1,382kg GTI PP 3 door manual (fuel + driver)
1,476kg R 3 door manual (fuel + driver)
Then the totals would be:
5 door Civic Type R 1,457kgs
5 door Golf R 1512kgs
5 door Golf GTi PP 1,417kgs
3 door Megane Trophy 1,511kgs
3 door Megane Trophy R 1,432kgs
Edited by sinbad666 on Friday 5th June 11:17
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