RE: The £70K M3 CSL: Spotted
Discussion
Leins said:
cerb4.5lee said:
A really good balanced post buddy.
Thanks, although I will admit I am still a BMW fanboy 
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off for a drive...
e21Mark said:
As an aside, are Cups still available and do most CSL owners stick with them, or try alternatives?
Most run them I think, I'm getting a set soon now that the CSL is taking over from the Noble and becoming the fun car rather than the daily. I've been running Supersports, even did a trackday on them and they were still ace, I'd love to try the cups though soon.Chapppers said:
e21Mark said:
As an aside, are Cups still available and do most CSL owners stick with them, or try alternatives?
Most run them I think, I'm getting a set soon now that the CSL is taking over from the Noble and becoming the fun car rather than the daily. I've been running Supersports, even did a trackday on them and they were still ace, I'd love to try the cups though soon.
I love Noble but would mean selling the E30 to fund one and am too much of a fanboy for that. e21Mark said:
Chapppers said:
e21Mark said:
As an aside, are Cups still available and do most CSL owners stick with them, or try alternatives?
Most run them I think, I'm getting a set soon now that the CSL is taking over from the Noble and becoming the fun car rather than the daily. I've been running Supersports, even did a trackday on them and they were still ace, I'd love to try the cups though soon. I love Noble but would mean selling the E30 to fund one and am too much of a fanboy for that. We shall see, maybe' I'll miss it and get another but it's time to grow up a little and get some property!
I don't see the fuss about this car being one of three "super duper" lightweights
By virtue of having no boxes ticked.
A good pal had one of the other two and how we mocked him as he melted during our
Mid 30C run across europe without A/C.
We laughed even more when he pulled up next to another in the Ring car park.
It did make sense on the smooth tarmac of Germany and was a cracking drive.
Looking at the photo dates the year was 2008 and by 2009 he'd sold the car for 35k
Having paid 30k a couple of years earlier.
I can recall scruffy "tracked" CSL's going for 18k back then.....
The 320is in the pics was sold a few years ago for 14k !
Which leaves my E34 sitting quietly in the garage still.
By virtue of having no boxes ticked.
A good pal had one of the other two and how we mocked him as he melted during our
Mid 30C run across europe without A/C.
We laughed even more when he pulled up next to another in the Ring car park.
It did make sense on the smooth tarmac of Germany and was a cracking drive.
Looking at the photo dates the year was 2008 and by 2009 he'd sold the car for 35k
Having paid 30k a couple of years earlier.
I can recall scruffy "tracked" CSL's going for 18k back then.....
The 320is in the pics was sold a few years ago for 14k !
Which leaves my E34 sitting quietly in the garage still.
Chapppers said:
Most run them I think, I'm getting a set soon now that the CSL is taking over from the Noble and becoming the fun car rather than the daily. I've been running Supersports, even did a trackday on them and they were still ace, I'd love to try the cups though soon.
I run PSS on mine but mainly because I already had them on a set of CSL rims from my Z4MC, when they are worn out I'll probably try the cups.161BMW said:
So back in the real world ie roads I take it there is not much difference between standard M3 and CSL ?
I was looking at some stats from BMW
0-100kmh
E46 M3 5.2
CSL 4.8
E92 M3 4.7
0-1000m
E46 M3 24.2
CSL 23.5
E92 M3 23.3
So unless u r a track day driver and risk Binning it / cracking the boot floor where presumably the track is the only place performance really shines
Do agree lightweight limited run specials tend I be worth more
From performance v price perspective of course not
For the kudos yes
For the possible appreciation yes
Obviously this CSL is top end. If u want the CSL but don't want to pay £70k which can get you Aston Martin V12 Vantag Manual then SH CSL £28-40k is an alternative
You're absolutely right and I won't deny it, as a purely road car proposition, the CSL doesn't really cut it. However, I personally bought mine purely because I wanted a car that could do track-days and 'ring trips in comfort and reliability. I very rarely use it for mundane journeys, as it makes no sense to do so I was looking at some stats from BMW
0-100kmh
E46 M3 5.2
CSL 4.8
E92 M3 4.7
0-1000m
E46 M3 24.2
CSL 23.5
E92 M3 23.3
So unless u r a track day driver and risk Binning it / cracking the boot floor where presumably the track is the only place performance really shines
Do agree lightweight limited run specials tend I be worth more
From performance v price perspective of course not
For the kudos yes
For the possible appreciation yes
Obviously this CSL is top end. If u want the CSL but don't want to pay £70k which can get you Aston Martin V12 Vantag Manual then SH CSL £28-40k is an alternative
. Mine is a fully optioned car, but I have brought it back into line with the "base model" with the Supersprint "light-weight race" system (with sports cats) and APs (alloy calipers) all round (2-piece disc with alloy bell at the front).Although I knew it would be an appreciating classic (as you could see the way the E30 M3s were going), I am actually saddened that it ALL of these type of cars are going this way, as it means even if I could sell mine for £70k, I couldn't replace it with the car I would want (a 991 GT3), as the price of these has also gone through the roof. In fact look at any limited production run model and they've all gone silly.
Even with the value of mine sitting at around £40-50k I have in the back of my mind I shouldn't be using it as I am, but then think how paranoid would I be tracking a car that was £100k more valuable
. It's just getting silly that these cars are seen as investments rather than being used as per their design remit. What I dislike even more is how some manufacturers are jumping on the investment bandwagon (yes I'm looking at you Aston Martin 
) and building limited run cars that will only ever sit in dehumidfied garages and won't ever be used in the manner that the likes of me would like to see a performance car used.CorvetteConvert said:
I owned a mint CSL E46 and it is one of the world's most over-rated cars. Like people have said, the 1385 kgs dry weight is only with no options. Most have ICE and air-con so 1425 kgs is much more realistic. Mine had those options and was not a particularly quick car unless you could keep the thing over 6,000 rpm the whole time. In real world driving asking for performance quickly was often difficult as the rubbish gearbox was too slow to react and on-paper slower cars would often get away. As a road car i did not rate it, although i did manage an 8 minute 2 seconds lap of the Nurburgring in it, which is pretty decent. The brakes were poor on a £60,000 sports coupe as well, very poor. Overpriced and over-valued now for me. £40,000 for a 12 year old one? Forget it, buy the best Nissan GTR you can get for the same price and hand the CSL it's arse on a plate.
Before I bought the CSL, I tried a GTR as I had always thought this would do what I wanted (the 'ring trips), but I didn't find it that involving to drive. The DCT box was (like it is in the E92), just TOO good. The gear-changes were seamless and consequently it didn't "feel" that quick (sadly I'd just done a passenger lap in a 997 GT3 RS as well, which was more "me").The DCT cars I have driven have left me underwhelmed. Sad as it may seem, I like the way the SMG feels clunky and more visceral (I suppose more "motorsport"
) and so feels like it is a more involving process. I admit on the road it is antiquated and boring to drive, but it comes alive on track and that is what I bought it for. You can be hamfisted with it, but provided you're quick enough, you can always save it. The chassis is so balanced, that the only time I even have the traction control on (and even then, always M-track) is in the cold and wet when it is on the Cups. I love the feeling of the car moving around and for me the CSL has one of the best chassis of any car I have driven . Thought the UK prices were steep, how about these two Euro ones?
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
e21Mark said:
As an aside, are Cups still available and do most CSL owners stick with them, or try alternatives?
Cups are readily available. I personally have two sets of wheels - I run the Michelin Pilot Supersports in normal road use and the Cups for track use (although the car is sitting on the Cups at the moment due to the recent good weather).
estoril said:
Thought the UK prices were steep, how about these two Euro ones?
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
I've even seen that due to the premium they fetch in Europe, UK cars are being exported - hence why there is now only just over 200 left in the UK (which is further raising the values as demand outstrips supply http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
). When I was last at the 'ring, there was a Swiss registered RHD car there .Mike Rainbird said:
estoril said:
Thought the UK prices were steep, how about these two Euro ones?
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
I've even seen that due to the premium they fetch in Europe, UK cars are being exported - hence why there is now only just over 200 left in the UK (which is further raising the values as demand outstrips supply http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
http://www.ginaclassics.com/en/bmw-m3-csl-2003-e46...
). When I was last at the 'ring, there was a Swiss registered RHD car there .Mike Rainbird said:
e21Mark said:
As an aside, are Cups still available and do most CSL owners stick with them, or try alternatives?
Cups are readily available. I personally have two sets of wheels - I run the Michelin Pilot Supersports in normal road use and the Cups for track use (although the car is sitting on the Cups at the moment due to the recent good weather).Tempted to try Pilot sport cup on my E30.
The whole actual/perceived value thing is very much like the E30 M3 too. In reality, I know my E30's aren't £30k+ cars, let alone £90k+ for Evo versions but some people love them and that simply drives the market. Some people do just buy them (and CSL I'm sure) for their monetary value, whereas most owners I imagine, would love them were they worth no more than a regular M3.
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