Sports saloons vs sports cars

[heebeegeetee]

StuntmanMike said:

^^^ And put some pics up when you get back.

Thanks, will try to do so.

[BucksFizz]

Some interesting comments.

I'm surprised some people are talking about coupe and saloon models of the same car as if they are different. In my opinion a coupe version of a saloon is still a saloon, i.e. a 2 door 3 series (or M4 now) is not what I was defining as a sports car.

Sports car to me is a 2 seat lamborghini, ferrari (911 I suppose, lets face it the rear seats are not for humans), not a less practical and more expensive version of a mass produced saloon.

[s m]

BucksFizz said:

Some interesting comments.

I'm surprised some people are talking about coupe and saloon models of the same car as if they are different. In my opinion a coupe version of a saloon is still a saloon, i.e. a 2 door 3 series (or M4 now) is not what I was defining as a sports car.

Sports car to me is a 2 seat lamborghini, ferrari (911 I suppose, lets face it the rear seats are not for humans), not a less practical and more expensive version of a mass produced saloon.

That's the key point for me - definition of a sports car. Some people term what I would call sports coupes ( stuff like the GT86, 350z ) as sports cars. Sports car I tend to think stuff like a Triumph Spitfire up to a Ferrari, generally just 2 seats, sometimes more. It's a bit blurry in reality

[sticks090460]

Sports car. Rent a bigger car when needed.

[Leins]

BucksFizz said:

Some interesting comments.

I'm surprised some people are talking about coupe and saloon models of the same car as if they are different. In my opinion a coupe version of a saloon is still a saloon, i.e. a 2 door 3 series (or M4 now) is not what I was defining as a sports car.

Sports car to me is a 2 seat lamborghini, ferrari (911 I suppose, lets face it the rear seats are not for humans), not a less practical and more expensive version of a mass produced saloon.

The original M3 was known as a 2-door saloon. It was only the second gen (E36) when the 2-door was named a "coupe". I actually think the E36 4-door M3 is cooler myself, purely because it was a bit less obvious

[8cylinder]

I like my sports saloons,preferably ones with big v8,s in them,however I feel the need to be selfish and I am currently drawn towards a slk55 amg,much to my wife's disgust!
Mid life crisis at 36!

[griffdude]

O/T Estate.

[Ozzie Osmond]

8cylinder said:

I am currently drawn towards a slk55 amg

Have a look at BMW640 before you decide. Personally I don't "get" the SLK with humungous engine, but it's all personal choice.

[Leins]

Ozzie Osmond said:

8cylinder said:

I am currently drawn towards a slk55 amg

Have a look at BMW640 before you decide. Personally I don't "get" the SLK with humungous engine, but it's all personal choice.

Have to say an SLK55 appeals to me in a way that no modern 6-series ever could. It's the only small "roadster" I can fit in, and I find the idea of then putting a large V8 into it quite amusing

[drpep]

sticks090460 said:

Sports car. Rent a bigger car when needed.

This ^^^

UNLESS, you're happy compromising on dynamics. Going smaller and lighter will always be more fun than hefting a 2 tonne über-barge, regardless of how many horses you shove under the bonnet. To date, I've only come across 1 exception to that rule; the Nissan GT-R, and look at all the tech required to keep that thing in shape! AAAAAnd it'll still melt it's brakes given a couple of hot laps, unlike (insert sports car brand/models here).

I still stick by my old formula: Naturally aspirated, Lightweight, RWD, Manual Gearbox, Power to Weight > 200Bhp/tonne. Magic formula.
>> Extra points for a slip diff

I can't thing of one stty car which ticks all of those boxes.

[ORD]

drpep said:

This ^^^

UNLESS, you're happy compromising on dynamics. Going smaller and lighter will always be more fun than hefting a 2 tonne über-barge, regardless of how many horses you shove under the bonnet. To date, I've only come across 1 exception to that rule; the Nissan GT-R, and look at all the tech required to keep that thing in shape! AAAAAnd it'll still melt it's brakes given a couple of hot laps, unlike (insert sports car brand/models here).

I still stick by my old formula: Naturally aspirated, Lightweight, RWD, Manual Gearbox, Power to Weight > 200Bhp/tonne. Magic formula.
>> Extra points for a slip diff

I can't thing of one stty car which ticks all of those boxes.

That's a fun game. Someone find a st car that ticks those boxes I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'lightweight'. I suggest 1300kg to keep it realistic for everyday cars.

I agree completely on super-barges. I really can't imagine ever wanting one. A sports saloon is more up my street, but they are ultimately so compromised when put against a ground-up sports/GT car.

[Stickyfinger]

So, is Red paint better than Blue paint ?

[R8VXF]

Stickyfinger said:

So, is Red paint better than Blue paint ?

No, blue is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4drNFXd6dw

[RobM77]

Mike29 said:

plenty said:

What I'm getting at, is that while a Caterham and Elise are capable of offering more ultimate thrills given the right conditions, an M3 or a hot hatch offers a much wider array of occasions to enjoy.

I do like air con in fact, which will particularly come in useful on my forthcoming trip to Spain and Portugal in a few weeks. Tomorrow I drive to Wales to savour the best roads that country has to offer. There's a guy in an Exige coming with me and no doubt on Saturday in the blazing sunshine he might have 10% more fun than me. However when it buckets down over the triangle on Sunday I'll be pretty glad I'm in my AWD sports saloon.

When I go to Scotland and the Pennines in the late autumn, when it's bound be damp and grip conditions less than ideal, all of the Lotus guys will have put their cars away for the season

Exactly why I have an m5 and SCd Elise.
Roof off is epic too.

If it were 10%, plenty's statement would make sense, but it's way, way more than that. I've owned two Caterhams, an Elise and a 2-Eleven and have owned several sports saloons (325i, 328i, 330i) and driven many others (M3, RS4, AMG etc) and you can barely compare them - the differences are huge. As for AWD sports saloons, as mentioned in plenty's post, they're even less fun and to be honest I'd enjoy a boggo 3 series far more than an RS4. That's all my personal opinion of course. I'm not sure I see the problem with bad weather to be honest, other than having to put the roof on. I know I'm not the only person on here who used his Elise all year round as an everyday car - the only thing that relegates them to second cars (as mine eventually was) is the noise cruising on the motorway and the lack of practicality (two seats, no roof bars, no tow bar etc).

The M5 and the Elise is a good combo!

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 11th August 15:03

[CorvetteConvert]

I had a similar dilemma; was tempted by the gorgeous-sounding Merc 6.2 V8 saloon and the E90 M5 V10, but settled on the 'vette as the keeper and a mapped Kuga derv for the chores.
If you are going to go really fast regularly why tow the thick end of 2 tons round with you? 505 bhp / 1450 kgs sounded much sweeter so that was my choice.
But the new mega saloons have some stonking engines i have to say.

[otolith]

And that's of course where the differences of opinion come in. If someone says "I don't want a Ferrari because I get 99% of the enjoyment from my Corsa diesel", one might not agree with his tastes, one might suspect that he isn't basing his opinion on experience or that his use of cars is somewhat different to one's own, but either way, that's his peculiarity. I would not get 90% of the enjoyment of a lightweight sports car from a big fast barge, but if someone else does, they are probably better cut out for barge ownership than I am. I can understand why some people might, if (for example) acceleration is all they care about.

[RobM77]

otolith said:

And that's of course where the differences of opinion come in. If someone says "I don't want a Ferrari because I get 99% of the enjoyment from my Corsa diesel", one might not agree with his tastes, one might suspect that he isn't basing his opinion on experience or that his use of cars is somewhat different to one's own, but either way, that's his peculiarity. I would not get 90% of the enjoyment of a lightweight sports car from a big fast barge, but if someone else does, they are probably better cut out for barge ownership than I am. I can understand why some people might, if (for example) acceleration is all they care about.

It clearly is for some people, yes. Aa you rightly say, it's by no means universal though - I'd far rather drive an MR2 down a B road than an RS4, rain or shine.

[plenty]

RobM77 said:

If it were 10%, plenty's statement would make sense, but it's way, way more than that. I've owned two Caterhams, an Elise and a 2-Eleven and have owned several sports saloons (325i, 328i, 330i) and driven many others (M3, RS4, AMG etc) and you can barely compare them - the differences are huge. As for AWD sports saloons, as mentioned in plenty's post, they're even less fun and to be honest I'd enjoy a boggo 3 series far more than an RS4. That's all my personal opinion of course. I'm not sure I see the problem with bad weather to be honest, other than having to put the roof on. I know I'm not the only person on here who used his Elise all year round as an everyday car - the only thing that relegates them to second cars (as mine eventually was) is the noise cruising on the motorway and the lack of practicality (two seats, no roof bars, no tow bar etc).

The M5 and the Elise is a good combo!

otolith said:

I would not get 90% of the enjoyment of a lightweight sports car from a big fast barge, but if someone else does, they are probably better cut out for barge ownership than I am. I can understand why some people might, if (for example) acceleration is all they care about.

That's a big leap from my statement to concluding that "acceleration is all [I] care about." Like you, I love all aspects of what makes drivers' cars enjoyable. I'd be willing to bet that I spend a lot more time driving for pure pleasure than you do, in fact.

My 90% figure comes not from barges but from the best-handling and most usable sports saloons, such as Megane 265/275, M135i, Golf R. It's pretty evident my requirement for high performance in all weathers is greater than either of you and I am prepared to sacrifice the last word in finesse for it.

There are situations where I would also enjoy a boggo 3 series more than an RS4, but I'd enjoy the RS4 more of the time and I'd enjoy any of the aforementioned sports saloons much more of the time.

[otolith]

That was an example. If acceleration is your thing, you can get it from anything with high power to weight. You might like other things that you can get from big heavy cars and place relatively little value on what you get from lightweight sportscars, in which case you don't get a great deal of benefit from the latter.

I quite like driving the Elise in the wet, precisely because it has less grip.

[ORD]

plenty said:

That's a big leap from my statement to concluding that "acceleration is all [I] care about." Like you, I love all aspects of what makes drivers' cars enjoyable. I'd be willing to bet that I spend a lot more time driving for pure pleasure than you do, in fact.

My 90% figure comes not from barges but from the best-handling and most usable sports saloons, such as Megane 265/275, M135i, Golf R. It's pretty evident my requirement for high performance in all weathers is greater than either of you and I am prepared to sacrifice the last word in finesse for it.

There are situations where I would also enjoy a boggo 3 series more than an RS4, but I'd enjoy the RS4 more of the time and I'd enjoy any of the aforementioned sports saloons much more of the time.

Those aren't sports saloons. That's 1 hot hatch and 2 performance hatches. Different market.