RE: Civic Type R Mugen: PH Blog
Discussion
Guvernator said:
Unfortunately we probably won't see the likes again due to emissions regs etc but also due to the fact that it seems people don't want to have to work hard to extract enjoyment from a car any more. I remember posting on here once (where you'd hope the audience would be more receptive) about the joys of revving to 8000rpm+ only to get many posts asking "what's the point" and "why would you want to when a modern turbo gives you more power at 3000rpm"? Err the point is it's fun, requires a bit of effort on your part and because you can, I seem to have been left behind the times. Don't get me wrong, some of the modern turbo engines are VERY effective but they are all beginning to merge into one diesel-alike amalgam of dullness.
(Quote snipped).Agree 100% with that Sir, well put.
Axionknight said:
(Quote snipped).
Agree 100% with that Sir, well put.
Thanks :thumpup: I find it very frustrating as a petrol head that the market seems to be moving ever further into dull, efficient speed. Agree 100% with that Sir, well put.
Case in point
E9x M3 V8 - Plenty of power AND torque (yes really). Revved to over 8000rpm and sounded mental. People complained it was slow, had no torque and was too much hard work to extract the performance. Replaced with a twin turbo unit that is statistically "better" in every way and yet now there are complaints that the new M3\M4 is a bit characterless\dull
E60 M5 V10 - Plenty of power AND torque (yes really). Revved to over 8000rpm and sounded mental. People complained it was slow, had no torque and was too much hard work to extract the performance. Replaced with a twin turbo unit that is statistically "better" in every way and yet now there are complaints that the new M5 is a bit characterless\dull
See a pattern here?
I'm sure many people are happy that the new models can go faster with less effort but I think there are also a few who lament the loss of characterful engines that reward effort like the Type R units.
sh33n said:
Wonder how much one would go for now?
I'd imagine like the R26R they will hold pretty good value.
Many man points to whomever bought one new / used - couldn't lavish that sort of money out however when the std. one would be almost as good at a fraction of the price.
Someone had one at Honda on Sunday! But as you say, very brave. Reflected in the fact they didn't all sell immediately...I'd imagine like the R26R they will hold pretty good value.
Many man points to whomever bought one new / used - couldn't lavish that sort of money out however when the std. one would be almost as good at a fraction of the price.
Axionknight said:
Guvernator said:
Unfortunately we probably won't see the likes again due to emissions regs etc but also due to the fact that it seems people don't want to have to work hard to extract enjoyment from a car any more. I remember posting on here once (where you'd hope the audience would be more receptive) about the joys of revving to 8000rpm+ only to get many posts asking "what's the point" and "why would you want to when a modern turbo gives you more power at 3000rpm"? Err the point is it's fun, requires a bit of effort on your part and because you can, I seem to have been left behind the times. Don't get me wrong, some of the modern turbo engines are VERY effective but they are all beginning to merge into one diesel-alike amalgam of dullness.
(Quote snipped).Agree 100% with that Sir, well put.
It's really made me want an S2000 now...The fn2 deserves a little more credit than it got from the motoring press in my opinion, apart from the Clio 200 and Swift Sport it was the only hot hatch of this era to come n/a, the engine/gearbox combination are sublime and requires driver input to get the best from it. Yes the ride is poor and it should have came with an lsd from the factory but when breathed on they are fantastic little cars.
Plenty of these running 250+hp and spinning to over 9000rpm, bolt on the FD2 intake, throttle body and oil pump with a decent cold air intake, race manifold and set of cams and you will be knocking on the door of 250hp with a shed load more mid range for a smidge of the cost that genuine Mugen parts will set you back.
Plenty of these running 250+hp and spinning to over 9000rpm, bolt on the FD2 intake, throttle body and oil pump with a decent cold air intake, race manifold and set of cams and you will be knocking on the door of 250hp with a shed load more mid range for a smidge of the cost that genuine Mugen parts will set you back.
Matt Bird said:
sh33n said:
Wonder how much one would go for now?
I'd imagine like the R26R they will hold pretty good value.
Many man points to whomever bought one new / used - couldn't lavish that sort of money out however when the std. one would be almost as good at a fraction of the price.
Someone had one at Honda on Sunday! But as you say, very brave. Reflected in the fact they didn't all sell immediately...I'd imagine like the R26R they will hold pretty good value.
Many man points to whomever bought one new / used - couldn't lavish that sort of money out however when the std. one would be almost as good at a fraction of the price.
Got rid of my FN2 Type R a couple of months ago and I was glad to see the back of it, Loved the way it looked inside and out but everything else was bloody awful.
I bought this car because like the story says, Its the last n/a proper hot hatch. Turbo's are taking over so I wanted to own a rev happy screamer before the inevitable boost took hold.
The ride is unacceptable, I used my track car everyday for a little while and that was more comfortable, it crashes around and seems to find every single little bump in the road. Most uncomfortable car I've ever driven... Such a shame as the seats are unbelievably comfy, when your not driving along that is!
The build quality is pretty bad as well, the centre console on mine rattled like made and it would wobble around when you used the arm rest for resting your arm, some of the interior trim didn't line up properly and it just felt a bit cheap.
Gearbox... That would've been good had the 3rd gear synchro in mine not started to get a bit weak ( i owned a 07 with 38k on the clock) going from second to third it would either pop out of gear or crunch into 3rd.
Driving position... hmm, im only 6 ft but even I struggled to get into a seating position where I felt properly comfortable.... The seat itself though,
Some idiot at Honda decided that when you let some get into the back and return the seat to its upright position that the seat shouldn't go back into your driving position but it will go into my 6 year old nephews driving position, right forward and bolt upright!!
The engine is a gem, just not in a car that big and heavy. It doesn't have any torque, nor does it really have enough grunt when up in the revs to really get the car going, 200bhp and it just didn't feel that fast. Plus when you are in the Vtec rev range it just sound like some young scrote screaming the nuts of 1.1 Saxo with some big bore exhaust.
Ive since replaced with a Golf GTI Edition 30... So much better in every single way, yes I got less kit on my Golf than I did the Civic but I can sacrifice cruise control and buttons all over the steering wheel for driving pleasure.
I bought this car because like the story says, Its the last n/a proper hot hatch. Turbo's are taking over so I wanted to own a rev happy screamer before the inevitable boost took hold.
The ride is unacceptable, I used my track car everyday for a little while and that was more comfortable, it crashes around and seems to find every single little bump in the road. Most uncomfortable car I've ever driven... Such a shame as the seats are unbelievably comfy, when your not driving along that is!
The build quality is pretty bad as well, the centre console on mine rattled like made and it would wobble around when you used the arm rest for resting your arm, some of the interior trim didn't line up properly and it just felt a bit cheap.
Gearbox... That would've been good had the 3rd gear synchro in mine not started to get a bit weak ( i owned a 07 with 38k on the clock) going from second to third it would either pop out of gear or crunch into 3rd.
Driving position... hmm, im only 6 ft but even I struggled to get into a seating position where I felt properly comfortable.... The seat itself though,
Some idiot at Honda decided that when you let some get into the back and return the seat to its upright position that the seat shouldn't go back into your driving position but it will go into my 6 year old nephews driving position, right forward and bolt upright!!
The engine is a gem, just not in a car that big and heavy. It doesn't have any torque, nor does it really have enough grunt when up in the revs to really get the car going, 200bhp and it just didn't feel that fast. Plus when you are in the Vtec rev range it just sound like some young scrote screaming the nuts of 1.1 Saxo with some big bore exhaust.
Ive since replaced with a Golf GTI Edition 30... So much better in every single way, yes I got less kit on my Golf than I did the Civic but I can sacrifice cruise control and buttons all over the steering wheel for driving pleasure.
It looks expensive, but then;
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/cars/megane-renaults...
Fancy the Honda more.
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/cars/megane-renaults...
Fancy the Honda more.
I had the pleasure of driving that very white car up the Goodwood hill at the first moving motor show just before the Honda guy tried to wipe out Jaguars heritage... Was a bit of a contrast to the S3 I had driven down - the noise was fantastic, gearbox perfect and I got to redline it through the gears passing the house..... Happy days, I believe enough idiots crashed demos to force a chicane before the bridge now... Sad
There was also a run of Mugen Civics that JUST came with more discreet Mugen styling upgrades called the "Mugen 200"
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/mugen/36981-civic-mug...
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/mugen/36981-civic-mug...
loose cannon said:
But £40 to £50k 
sorry I shouldn't but it wasn't even groundbreaking
It wasn't supposed to be "groundbreaking", it was just meant to be an amazing drive. Given that I've never heard a heard anything less than great reviews from people who've actually driven them I'm inclined to believe they succeeded. If you want a wafty ride, look elsewhere, however.sorry I shouldn't but it wasn't even groundbreaking sinbad666 said:
There was also a run of Mugen Civics that JUST came with more discreet Mugen styling upgrades called the "Mugen 200"
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/mugen/36981-civic-mug...
<Cough> I will just leave these here http://www.civinfo.com/forum/mugen/36981-civic-mug...
king brilliant. Guvernator said:
I've not managed to have a go in a Mugen (pretty difficult considering how few where made) but I have had a go in plenty of "normal" Type R's and without fail the engines have always been the star of the show so I can't even manage how good a Mugen tuned one must be.
Razor sharp response and an engine that seems to want to keep spinning and spinning, it's amazing to hear the engine sing, look down and see you've still got another 2000rpm to play with. Unfortunately lots of people spoil them by putting loud exhausts on them which drowns out the noise. Be sensible and just stick a decent air filter kit on it to release some more of induction noise and hear that engine sing, yes a 4 pot engine CAN sound good.
Unfortunately we probably won't see the likes again due to emissions regs etc but also due to the fact that it seems people don't want to have to work hard to extract enjoyment from a car any more. I remember posting on here once (where you'd hope the audience would be more receptive) about the joys of revving to 8000rpm+ only to get many posts asking "what's the point" and "why would you want to when a modern turbo gives you more power at 3000rpm"? Err the point is it's fun, requires a bit of effort on your part and because you can, I seem to have been left behind the times. Don't get me wrong, some of the modern turbo engines are VERY effective but they are all beginning to merge into one diesel-alike amalgam of dullness.
. I agree with being able to rev a car right out to extract Alll of its power ,massive satisfaction could be gained from this alone ! Maybe you felt like you were going faster than you actually were . I think the newer turbo cars are probably getting a little to refined ,to much effort in making it feel not like a turbo car , this is exactly why I have never owned a diesel even got bored of a 335i bmw , I now drive a Clio 182 and love the thing ! Razor sharp response and an engine that seems to want to keep spinning and spinning, it's amazing to hear the engine sing, look down and see you've still got another 2000rpm to play with. Unfortunately lots of people spoil them by putting loud exhausts on them which drowns out the noise. Be sensible and just stick a decent air filter kit on it to release some more of induction noise and hear that engine sing, yes a 4 pot engine CAN sound good.
Unfortunately we probably won't see the likes again due to emissions regs etc but also due to the fact that it seems people don't want to have to work hard to extract enjoyment from a car any more. I remember posting on here once (where you'd hope the audience would be more receptive) about the joys of revving to 8000rpm+ only to get many posts asking "what's the point" and "why would you want to when a modern turbo gives you more power at 3000rpm"? Err the point is it's fun, requires a bit of effort on your part and because you can, I seem to have been left behind the times. Don't get me wrong, some of the modern turbo engines are VERY effective but they are all beginning to merge into one diesel-alike amalgam of dullness.
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