RE: Mazda MX-5 vs Toyota GT86

[VeeFource]

Great article and chuffed to get info on how the cars sound which I think's one of the most important things for cars like this. The MX5 sounds much better than the previous models in the videos I've found online of it, certainly better than the '86 which sounds very laboured in the midrange.

Interesting concept how the '86 is more rewarding to drive despite the MX5 being more fun. I always thought the reward was in the fun, no?

This article just makes me want a Suzuki Swift Sport all the more before they inevitably put a turbo on it...

[daemon]

zerovira said:

I think they are both great cars, although I prefer the miata.

I feel that the toyobaru problem is that it looks 400bhp and it is not. People expect a supra and find ae86, so they get disappointed. In my opinion its problem is too much size & weight, not lack of power.

Fair point.

Its the same length as a 370z, and close to the same width, yet the 370z packs near 130BHP more and has a 3.7 litre v6 beneath its similarly proportioned bonnet.

[Gandahar]

Well written Dan, not too many conjugated conjugoolinations.

Did I spell that right...

You know what I think. The best roads in the UK are B roads. Elise and Caterhams and Atoms and Ginettas have this down to a fine art. The Germans seem to be going to far away from them with their width and excess power and tyre width and gearing. So the hot hatches have once again stepped up to the mark.

Now these two also do. They have faults, but with such people as Fensport and BBR they are like a starting point to get your less extreme b road ideal, think of it as a blank canvas.

If you gave me a Lotus Evora, modified GT86/MX5 and Fiesta ST in my £100k garage I would be pretty happy indeed.

[DeaconFrost]

NJH said:

There is a vid review comparison on Youtube comparing the new MX-5 to the BRZ. Its not a good one for Toyaburu fans as the car was comprehensively beaten both on track and on the 1/4 mile run. Really hard to square it in this day and age that a car with only 155 Bhp can get up the strip under 14 and a half seconds. 15 years ago anything under 15 seconds was considered properly quick. We had a mk3 MX-5 2.0 Sport with the lowering springs option to correct its ride height, Mazda IMHO really messed up the tyre/wheel/shocks/springs package on that car but I always felt the basic recipe was superb. Seems this car is a big improvement but perhaps suffers from some of the same chassis "tuning" issues.

One of the things with the video though is that the BRZ is on the standard Michelin Primacy tyres which are not great for standing starts or lap times due to their very low grip levels. If the MX5 is the same as over here they are on Yoko v105's which are far gripper. With the same tyres on both I'm not sure the result would be quite the same having driven both the MX5 and the GT86.

[666 SVT]

If you want underpowered under tyred fun in a car that will be worth more when you come to sell it there
are still plenty of 2.8 injection Capris in the classifieds?

[clarki]

Can't put the roof down on in the Toyota (or a capri, lol) so Mazda for me please.

[NJH]

DeaconFrost said:

NJH said:

There is a vid review comparison on Youtube comparing the new MX-5 to the BRZ. Its not a good one for Toyaburu fans as the car was comprehensively beaten both on track and on the 1/4 mile run. Really hard to square it in this day and age that a car with only 155 Bhp can get up the strip under 14 and a half seconds. 15 years ago anything under 15 seconds was considered properly quick. We had a mk3 MX-5 2.0 Sport with the lowering springs option to correct its ride height, Mazda IMHO really messed up the tyre/wheel/shocks/springs package on that car but I always felt the basic recipe was superb. Seems this car is a big improvement but perhaps suffers from some of the same chassis "tuning" issues.

One of the things with the video though is that the BRZ is on the standard Michelin Primacy tyres which are not great for standing starts or lap times due to their very low grip levels. If the MX5 is the same as over here they are on Yoko v105's which are far gripper. With the same tyres on both I'm not sure the result would be quite the same having driven both the MX5 and the GT86.

I am sure you are right when it comes to the circuit test, there is an all too short bit in one of the vids where the MX-5 pulls more or less 1G in the slalom/handling course thing but the BRZ is only something like 0.79G which is crazy low grip in this day and age. Not sure though that grippier tyres are going to find the Toyaburu that missing 1/2 second up the strip, it just heaps more evidence on the stuff I have read saying they don't make anywhere near the claimed 200 Bhp.

[Robert Elise]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Both of these cars are easily modded, that's not something you can say about many cars and seems to be a very Jap thing nowadays. For 35 you'd get quite a car: 250bhp, 200lb/ft and upgraded suspension/tyres.
It's not for everybody, but you've had the AMG and describe a car ownership journey that leaves you with little choice.

[DeaconFrost]

NJH said:

I am sure you are right when it comes to the circuit test, there is an all too short bit in one of the vids where the MX-5 pulls more or less 1G in the slalom/handling course thing but the BRZ is only something like 0.79G which is crazy low grip in this day and age. Not sure though that grippier tyres are going to find the Toyaburu that missing 1/2 second up the strip, it just heaps more evidence on the stuff I have read saying they don't make anywhere near the claimed 200 Bhp.

Most of the stock dyno'd ones come out as about 190bhp.

[callahan]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You could buy me a BRZ?

[VeeFource]

DeaconFrost said:

One of the things with the video though is that the BRZ is on the standard Michelin Primacy tyres which are not great for standing starts or lap times due to their very low grip levels. If the MX5 is the same as over here they are on Yoko v105's which are far gripper. With the same tyres on both I'm not sure the result would be quite the same having driven both the MX5 and the GT86.

I don't quite understand why they bothered. Neither of these cars are about numbers so who cares if one is a bit slower. People who care about numbers should get a 370Z and live in ignorance

[Cabsi]

A very well written, carefully considered, article. Best I've read for a long time.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your description of the new MX5. I drove one at the Cotswolds launch event, and agree that the suspension needs work, it needs a fruity exhaust to give some aural excitement, the seat height/ wheel adjustment needs rethinking for those over 6ft, and for me I really do think it needs about 30 extra horses.

The tuning boys will need some time to come up with their box of tricks, but based on my experience with my NC, a decent set of Ohlins coil overs, a Racing Beat exhaust and a Robbo or BBR tune up would give a near perfect 2 seater.

I guess once the early cars are out of warranty there will be many going down this route.

Alternatively, the awaited clone Fiat/ Abarth 124 may provide the answer?

[mikey P 500]

My two favourite new cars at the moment if I had a spare £23k (which I don't) it would be a very difficult decision on which to get from these two, not sure this road test helps as they both sound good to me.

[diluculophile]

200hp - Fine

normally aspirated engine - Yes please

manual gearbox - definitely

rear-wheel drive - probably, but not necessarily

Light weight - paramount

Lack of silly electronics, driver aids, effing parking sensors and other assorted gimmicks - of course

Skinny tyres - WTF? I want to go around corners, not have 'fun' wondering whether I'll get around them or not.

Maybe I'm missing the point...



Edit: What size tyres does a G40R run?

Edited by diluculophile on Sunday 23 August 21:49

[DeaconFrost]

diluculophile said:

200hp - Fine

normally aspirated engine - Yes please

manual gearbox - definitely

rear-wheel drive - probably, but not necessarily

Light weight - paramount

Lack of silly electronics, driver aids, effing parking sensors and other assorted gimmicks - of course

Skinny tyres - WTF? I want to go around corners, not have 'fun' wondering whether I'll get around them or not.

Maybe I'm missing the point...



Edit: What size tyres does a G40R run?

Edited by diluculophile on Sunday 23 August 21:49

Just whack on a set of federal 595rs-r's for £70 a corner. I did. The grip is ridiculous on the road and on track it got me to the top of the class in the sprint series I take part in.

Be really interesting if Pistonheads tried a few of the tuned 86's floating around now (not just the turbo'd ones they've done a couple of) as most 86's don't seem to stay standard and a few mods certainly brings them to life.

[kambites]

diluculophile said:

Skinny tyres - WTF? I want to go around corners, not have 'fun' wondering whether I'll get around them or not.

Maybe I'm missing the point...

Yes, I think you are.

[Conscript]

Ed Straker said:

Can you answer the missing question here?
Is the GT86 REALLY lethal in the wet?

I survived the winter before last with the stock tyres. A bit skittish yes, but not lethal. And I think the tyres were more affected by the cold than the wet.

[ORD]

Good article. On this evidence, the MX5 every day. The engine gets a better review, and the rest is much for a much and can easily be changed with some cheap fettling.

[Hellbound]

While I really like the MX-5, I'd have to go with a BRZ with a massive discount.

I just couldn't live with a two seat roadster every day. I've tried before and having to borrow or hire (by the half hour) a car for trips to the tip or IKEA etc. can get a little tiring.

This all sounds amazing though;

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015/toyota/tokyo-...

Ignoring the terrible renders, I'm especially hyped about the Tokyo show as I'm planning on attending.

'...this year's Tokyo show is expected to return to its glory days of the 1990s, spurred on by strong overseas sales by the country's biggest car-makers led by Toyota, Nissan, Subaru and Mazda, all of which have at least two show cars in store – many of them significant, some of them fun and a handful just plain wacky. '

Edited by Hellbound on Monday 24th August 04:48

[Swordman]

zerovira said:

I feel that the toyobaru problem is that it looks 400bhp and it is not. People expect a supra and find ae86, so they get disappointed. In my opinion its problem is too much size & weight, not lack of power.

Personally, I don't think great design should be exclusive to powerful cars. If the GT86 was designed to look a bit rubbish, it wouldn't make it any better as a car, quite the contrary, in fact.