RE: Porsche Cayman GT4 vs. Lotus Exige V6 Cup
Discussion
As long as Lotus provide a range of stitching options for the dashboard and an extensive range of colours for the seat belts they could pick up plenty of sales from those not deemed worthy of a GT4 by their OPC.
On the other hand, they could just stick to making a drivers car for those who actually want to drive...
On the other hand, they could just stick to making a drivers car for those who actually want to drive...
I live in central London and currently have a Cayman S as my only car, I also have a Vespa. So I'm one of the types of people mentioned in this thread.
I use the Vespa to commute to work unless it’s raining cats and dogs. The Cayman sits, parked on the street in front of my flat, it occasionally gets driven to the supermarket mid-week, otherwise it's for weekends only. I’d quiet like an R8 V10 or an Aston Martin but they are just too flashy to leave parked outside. I have never driven a Lotus but my perception is that they are far too fragile to leave parked on the street. I would worry that it’s going to leak, the battery would go flat or it would attract unwanted attention and be vandalised. Part of the appeal of Porsche is that they are somewhat under the radar, common as muck in my part of London.
I have a GT4 coming to replace the S in January. I was intending to have the GT4 as my only car and use it the same as I use my S but I've decided to get a second car to go with the GT4 and rent a garage to keep the GT4 in and only use it when I go out of London.
There’s a couple of reasons for coming to this conclusion.
Ground clearance might be a bit restricting. The big fixed wing is a bit much, the neighbours probably already probably think I’m a knob and I don’t want to put too many miles on the GT4. Not very PH reasons for not driving it but the vast majority of the 10 000 miles I’ve put on my S have been in London traffic so not quality miles at all.
It’s my reality that whatever car I have will either be parked on the street or in a rented garage at about £250/month.
I’m gay and I’ve ordered red deviated stitching/belts and lots of interior carbon and leather, I’m going to miss parking sensors and the high end stereo that are not GT4 options. My partner can’t drive a manual, I’m going to teach him in the GT4 with its lightened flywheel, happy days.
I use the Vespa to commute to work unless it’s raining cats and dogs. The Cayman sits, parked on the street in front of my flat, it occasionally gets driven to the supermarket mid-week, otherwise it's for weekends only. I’d quiet like an R8 V10 or an Aston Martin but they are just too flashy to leave parked outside. I have never driven a Lotus but my perception is that they are far too fragile to leave parked on the street. I would worry that it’s going to leak, the battery would go flat or it would attract unwanted attention and be vandalised. Part of the appeal of Porsche is that they are somewhat under the radar, common as muck in my part of London.
I have a GT4 coming to replace the S in January. I was intending to have the GT4 as my only car and use it the same as I use my S but I've decided to get a second car to go with the GT4 and rent a garage to keep the GT4 in and only use it when I go out of London.
There’s a couple of reasons for coming to this conclusion.
Ground clearance might be a bit restricting. The big fixed wing is a bit much, the neighbours probably already probably think I’m a knob and I don’t want to put too many miles on the GT4. Not very PH reasons for not driving it but the vast majority of the 10 000 miles I’ve put on my S have been in London traffic so not quality miles at all.
It’s my reality that whatever car I have will either be parked on the street or in a rented garage at about £250/month.
I’m gay and I’ve ordered red deviated stitching/belts and lots of interior carbon and leather, I’m going to miss parking sensors and the high end stereo that are not GT4 options. My partner can’t drive a manual, I’m going to teach him in the GT4 with its lightened flywheel, happy days.
paralla said:
the battery would go flat
The rest is largely no longer true, but that bit probably is, at least assuming Lotus still use the Cobra alarm from the S2. Whether it'll get vandalised obviously depends on how nasty the area you live in is. I'd have no problems leaving my Elise on the street around here, in fact I did for about six months while the garage was being rebuilt, but then I don't like in London.
I wonder what proportion of GT4s will rarely leave London. Obviously you can do whatever you want with your car but it does seem a bit of a waste of its talents.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 9th September 10:19
paralla said:
My partner can’t drive a manual, I’m going to teach him in the GT4 with its lightened flywheel, happy days.
Haha, that would be hilarious to watch. Not only is it going to be incredibly difficult, but I can't imagine you're going to delight at his attempts/stalling/clutch riding etc etc.paralla said:
I’m gay and I’ve ordered red deviated stitching/belts and lots of interior carbon and leather, I’m going to miss parking sensors and the high end stereo that are not GT4 options.
Good work on mentioning the stitching - it accounts for about 70% of the discussion on any new Porsche on PH.kambites said:
I wonder what proportion of GT4s will rarely leave London. Obviously you can do whatever you want with your car but it does seem a bit of a waste of its talents.
I suppose it'll be like any of the cars that have been bought for investment or with residual value in mind, a large number of them will be very very rarely driven and never driven hard, as intended. It's a shame but it isn't surprising I guess. Although being a Porsche GT car (albeit not a 'proper' one from the GT division) it's possible it'll be a bit more resistant to the value dropping just because it's been driven a bit.
leglessAlex said:
I suppose it'll be like any of the cars that have been bought for investment or with residual value in mind, a large number of them will be very very rarely driven and never driven hard, as intended.
It's a shame but it isn't surprising I guess. Although being a Porsche GT car (albeit not a 'proper' one from the GT division) it's possible it'll be a bit more resistant to the value dropping just because it's been driven a bit.
Mine will leave London every time I do unless I leave via an airport. It most certainly wasn't bought as an investment. I can't speak for everyone that's getting one, just myself. I sent a letter of interest last December, long before anyone knew what the spec would be, how limited the production run would be or how sought after they would become. I suspect its the same for most people that got an allocation.It's a shame but it isn't surprising I guess. Although being a Porsche GT car (albeit not a 'proper' one from the GT division) it's possible it'll be a bit more resistant to the value dropping just because it's been driven a bit.
I'm nobody special to my OPC, my current Cayman S is the first Porsche I've ever had. I paid a deposit for the GT4 at 9.10am on the day it was announced and 11 months later I'm getting a car and I feel very lucky indeed.
leglessAlex said:
I suppose it'll be like any of the cars that have been bought for investment or with residual value in mind, a large number of them will be very very rarely driven and never driven hard, as intended.
I think there's a big difference between a car bought "as an investment", and a car bought "with residual value in mind". Every car is bought with residual value in mind, not every car is bought as an investment.I've bought every car I've owned because the balance of how much I wanted it, to what I thought it would cost (including residuals) made sense, I have never bought anything because I thought it would go up in value.
Edited by hufggfg on Wednesday 9th September 17:48
hufggfg said:
I think there's a big difference between a car bought "as an investment", and a car bought "with residual value in mind". Every car is bought with residual value in mind, not every car is bought as an investment.
I've bought every car I've owned because the balance of how much I wanted it, to what I thought it would cost (including residuals) made sense, I have never bought anything because I thought it would go up in value.
That's just not true, and in fact there's a Readers Cars thread on a Ferrari F430 that proves it isn't true. I've bought every car I've owned because the balance of how much I wanted it, to what I thought it would cost (including residuals) made sense, I have never bought anything because I thought it would go up in value.
Edited by hufggfg on Wednesday 9th September 17:48
I'd accept that a large number of people buy with residual value in mind and even that most buy with it in mind, but not all.
kambites said:
I'd have no problems leaving my Elise on the street around here, in fact I did for about six months while the garage was being rebuilt, but then I don't live in London.
Honest question: how bad are the GRP clams at coping with small parking incidents? Some quarters here have been overrun by hipsters with tatty Volvos (mostly 240s). They can't drive never mind parallel park and generally don't give a §$!"#. 
.leglessAlex said:
That's just not true, and in fact there's a Readers Cars thread on a Ferrari F430 that proves it isn't true.
I'd accept that a large number of people buy with residual value in mind and even that most buy with it in mind, but not all.
Do you mean the spider that's been modified? Just the fact that he's ok with some depreciation doesn't mean it wasn't a consideration. If (as an example) he know that the first thing he did to the car reduced the value to zero, then I have a feeling his choices would have been different. I'm not saying depreciation is top of everyone's list, or even high up it, but it's considered at some point and affects purchasing decisions.I'd accept that a large number of people buy with residual value in mind and even that most buy with it in mind, but not all.
Kolbenkopp said:
Honest question: how bad are the GRP clams at coping with small parking incidents? Some quarters here have been overrun by hipsters with tatty Volvos (mostly 240s). They can't drive never mind parallel park and generally don't give a §$!"#.
I can't answer this definitively, but when I had an S2 Exige it was once scraped in a carpark by a van driver. It was certainly a pretty bad scrape, leaving a gash around the front right corner of the car with damage to the GRP itself rather than just paintwork, but that resulted in a new front clam. So very anecdotally I'd say "pretty bad". I'm sure it is possible to affect some kind of repair by someone very experienced with GRP, but I'm not sure quite how good the finish would ever be, and given the time it would take I doubt it would be cheap.That said... everything else about the car was just so awesome I'd certainly not want to discourage you from getting one.
I live in London as well, and the lack of sensible parking is a real pain in the a55.
hufggfg said:
Kolbenkopp said:
Honest question: how bad are the GRP clams at coping with small parking incidents? Some quarters here have been overrun by hipsters with tatty Volvos (mostly 240s). They can't drive never mind parallel park and generally don't give a §$!"#.
I can't answer this definitively, but when I had an S2 Exige it was once scraped in a carpark by a van driver. It was certainly a pretty bad scrape, leaving a gash around the front right corner of the car with damage to the GRP itself rather than just paintwork, but that resulted in a new front clam. So very anecdotally I'd say "pretty bad". I'm sure it is possible to affect some kind of repair by someone very experienced with GRP, but I'm not sure quite how good the finish would ever be, and given the time it would take I doubt it would be cheap.That said... everything else about the car was just so awesome I'd certainly not want to discourage you from getting one.
I live in London as well, and the lack of sensible parking is a real pain in the a55.
Porsches don't exactly have rubber bumpers
SidewaysSi said:
Plenty of places will do a very good GRP repair. No need for a change of clam in most cases.
Good to know, I'd certainly love another Exige at some point.The thing that no-one seems to have discussed here, and is really the thing I find most interesting in the article is the apparent lack of throttle adjustsbility in the Exige, and it therefore being a bit of a "point and squirt" car. That would certainly be a big disappointment to me as that's the whole reason I want a car like this. Out and out pace is one thing, but its way a car flows down the road that really makes it an enjoyable experience for me.
Total pants!
The supercharger makes the powerband very linear. I actually miss the obvious S2's more obvious powerband sometimes but on the flipside I have done things on wet trackdays that simply wouldn't be possible in a 'point and squirt' car. The V6's are actually easier to slide and hold at bigger angles than the S2's ever were. They have more steering lock too.
Just reads like someone's trying to make excuses for a slower, less exciting car to me. As I understood it, its to do with this dreadful road that was chosen for the test. If you're having to hold on tight in a highly responsive car (set up for track use) down a lumpy b-road then you're having to be more patient in getting on the throttle than a car that is more road biased and dealing with the bumps better. If the Exige had handled the bumps well it wouldn't be track optimised. On track this car's extra sharpness will suddenly become an advantage. The Cup cars have far less understeer (none actually with correct tyre pressures and a few clicks in the right places) on track than the other Exige V6 variants for a start.
The car that's going to flow down the road nicely for you is a V6 Roadster or even more so, an Evora. The latter is probably the most composed and capable sports car on sale for rough b-roads. An under-valued talent by most on PorscheHeads but an Evora would have totally exposed the GT4 on that road.
The supercharger makes the powerband very linear. I actually miss the obvious S2's more obvious powerband sometimes but on the flipside I have done things on wet trackdays that simply wouldn't be possible in a 'point and squirt' car. The V6's are actually easier to slide and hold at bigger angles than the S2's ever were. They have more steering lock too.
Just reads like someone's trying to make excuses for a slower, less exciting car to me. As I understood it, its to do with this dreadful road that was chosen for the test. If you're having to hold on tight in a highly responsive car (set up for track use) down a lumpy b-road then you're having to be more patient in getting on the throttle than a car that is more road biased and dealing with the bumps better. If the Exige had handled the bumps well it wouldn't be track optimised. On track this car's extra sharpness will suddenly become an advantage. The Cup cars have far less understeer (none actually with correct tyre pressures and a few clicks in the right places) on track than the other Exige V6 variants for a start.
The car that's going to flow down the road nicely for you is a V6 Roadster or even more so, an Evora. The latter is probably the most composed and capable sports car on sale for rough b-roads. An under-valued talent by most on PorscheHeads but an Evora would have totally exposed the GT4 on that road.
Edited by twinturban on Thursday 10th September 20:15
Take your points, but think you might be being a touch biased.
You're right, a set-up difference can certainly mean that throttle application will then tuck the front in, though it is also true that certain chassis' in certain cars are just more capable with a wider operating window, and so the difference between a "road" and "track" set-up is smaller.
I don't have an axe to grind, I love both companies and would love to have either car, I just find the differences interesting.
You're right, a set-up difference can certainly mean that throttle application will then tuck the front in, though it is also true that certain chassis' in certain cars are just more capable with a wider operating window, and so the difference between a "road" and "track" set-up is smaller.
twinturban said:
an Evora would have totally exposed the GT4 on that road.
Think you're making a bit of a leap of faith there. Maybe you've had both cars down that road back-to-back and so have additional info, but without that, saying the Evora would have "totally exposed" a car that many journalists seem to consider the best thing since sliced bread (and I know they mostly love the Evora too) is probably just not true.I don't have an axe to grind, I love both companies and would love to have either car, I just find the differences interesting.
Unlike the Evora, no-one has previously commented on how amazing the GT4's ride is over rough roads. This 'test' is simply a comparison between a road biased set up versus a track biased set up. I know very well from first hand experience the difference between a V6S and a V6 Cup on poorly surfaced roads. The V6S or Roadster is markedly better and more than a match for the GT4. The Evora is in another level entirely to the pair of them. If 'flow' or whatever is your bag, you need to try the car that has that as its party piece.
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