RE: Porsche Cayman GT4 vs. Lotus Exige V6 Cup
Discussion
So what have we learnt?
The most track focused Exige isn't as comfortable on a bumpy road as an £80k Porsche.
PH can't be arsed to turn four dials to soften the dampers (a job taking less than a minute).
The road used was actually worse than the article suggested.
Nothing about how electric steering compares to a car with actual steering feel. The GT4's steering was only compared with other Caymans.
You would come to exactly the same conclusion comparing the Exige V6 Cup and the Exige V6 Roadster down that road.
This isn't a comparison between the GT4 and the V6 Cup. This is a comparison between the GT4 and the only available Exige V6 you could get your hands on.
And there's no way the Cup is over £70k. Fully loaded they are around £67k. The 360 Cup has the same £62k starting price but some of the bits that were standard are now extras, so it might just be possible to get one of those above £70k but that is not the car you were testing.
The most track focused Exige isn't as comfortable on a bumpy road as an £80k Porsche.
PH can't be arsed to turn four dials to soften the dampers (a job taking less than a minute).
The road used was actually worse than the article suggested.
Nothing about how electric steering compares to a car with actual steering feel. The GT4's steering was only compared with other Caymans.
You would come to exactly the same conclusion comparing the Exige V6 Cup and the Exige V6 Roadster down that road.
This isn't a comparison between the GT4 and the V6 Cup. This is a comparison between the GT4 and the only available Exige V6 you could get your hands on.
And there's no way the Cup is over £70k. Fully loaded they are around £67k. The 360 Cup has the same £62k starting price but some of the bits that were standard are now extras, so it might just be possible to get one of those above £70k but that is not the car you were testing.
LasseV said:
My n/a Supra dryweight is 1370kg. Cayman is a real lard ass compared to Exige.....
BTW, Lotus for me. Hugely exiting and gorgeous looking car!
but you could say the Exige is a lard arse over the Elise !BTW, Lotus for me. Hugely exiting and gorgeous looking car!
As most have said both great cars and LOtus are getting better, roll on the Exige 400 and the Evora 400 Cup/lightweight cars
We should really be celebrating both cars.
The fact that a Lotus can compete with Porsche's finest on the road is amazing given the difference in resources and focus of the two marques.
The GT4 is what enthusiasts have been asking Porsche to produce for ages. If it was a Jaguar or a Lotus, the PH masses would hail it as the Second Coming: high-revving NA engine with 100bhp/litre; mid-engined; RWD; adjustable suspension; civilised road manners; etc etc. Badge bias is strong on PH.
The fact that a Lotus can compete with Porsche's finest on the road is amazing given the difference in resources and focus of the two marques.
The GT4 is what enthusiasts have been asking Porsche to produce for ages. If it was a Jaguar or a Lotus, the PH masses would hail it as the Second Coming: high-revving NA engine with 100bhp/litre; mid-engined; RWD; adjustable suspension; civilised road manners; etc etc. Badge bias is strong on PH.
ORD said:
If it was a Jaguar or a Lotus, the PH masses would hail it as the Second Coming.
On threads purely about the Cayman, 95% of PHers have been from what I've seen (there will always be one or two rabid fan-boys of other marques who will dismiss it simply because it doesn't have their marque's badge on it). Indeed few people on this thread are knocking the Cayman, mostly it's just questioning the bizarre choice of car to compare it to. It's not really any more helpful for Porsche than for Lotus to make such a strangely mismatched comparison. If Porsche genuinely believe in their products they will want them tested against the very best that the competition can offer.
Edited by kambites on Monday 7th September 10:03
zebra said:
Dan Trent said:
Hello!
I'll just chip in with a couple of points to hopefully help with the context of this comparison. Firstly, the roads we drove on are EXCEPTIONALLY bumpy, even by the standards of British tarmac. I've driven a lot of seemingly comparable roads from Wales to Scotland but have never encountered anything quite as vicious as these ones. And the Lotus owner, who wasn't local, said if he drove on them regularly he'd be fiddling with the dampers on his car to suit; sadly there wasn't the time or scope to do so on the day.
I have to say though, the way the Porsche handled those roads straight out of the box was also exceptional and way, way above my personal expectations. True, the PCCBs and reduction of unsprung weight is a 'performance advantage' gained through an expensive option. But given how much heavier the car is in general I think credit where it's due - the damping is very, very good.
Second, I've driven both of these cars independently on track, albeit not the same one. But the impressions in the test incorporate observations from these and the behaviour on the road would seem to confirm them. I first drove the Lotus at Hethel; it was a press car in the stock 'safe' geometry and damper setting and the instinct to push on under power rather than rotate like the Porsche was noticeable there too. Indeed, I went out with Gavan Kershaw on the steering circle and even he was struggling to get round the understeer under power. As I said in the story, a lift and tuck very quickly adjusts the poise and can then be exploited to the full. But you have to lift, rather than power through like you can with the Porsche.
Comparisons have to be tempered with experience and the fact the behaviour of both cars can be significantly altered with mechanical adjustments to chassis and/or aero. One of the Caymans we drove on the track on the launch event had, for instance, been set soft front/hard rear on the three-step anti-roll bar settings and was massively oversteery compared with the default set-up on the other cars. Let's just say it had been configured with photo and video shoots in mind.
I don't doubt you could do the same with the Lotus too, given the amount of adjustment available.
As I say, nothing on this road drive in different cars from ones I'd driven previously overturned any significant impressions previously derived from testing them on track. So I stand by what I said, hopefully this just helps a little with the context of the conclusions.
Cheers!
Dan
DanI'll just chip in with a couple of points to hopefully help with the context of this comparison. Firstly, the roads we drove on are EXCEPTIONALLY bumpy, even by the standards of British tarmac. I've driven a lot of seemingly comparable roads from Wales to Scotland but have never encountered anything quite as vicious as these ones. And the Lotus owner, who wasn't local, said if he drove on them regularly he'd be fiddling with the dampers on his car to suit; sadly there wasn't the time or scope to do so on the day.
I have to say though, the way the Porsche handled those roads straight out of the box was also exceptional and way, way above my personal expectations. True, the PCCBs and reduction of unsprung weight is a 'performance advantage' gained through an expensive option. But given how much heavier the car is in general I think credit where it's due - the damping is very, very good.
Second, I've driven both of these cars independently on track, albeit not the same one. But the impressions in the test incorporate observations from these and the behaviour on the road would seem to confirm them. I first drove the Lotus at Hethel; it was a press car in the stock 'safe' geometry and damper setting and the instinct to push on under power rather than rotate like the Porsche was noticeable there too. Indeed, I went out with Gavan Kershaw on the steering circle and even he was struggling to get round the understeer under power. As I said in the story, a lift and tuck very quickly adjusts the poise and can then be exploited to the full. But you have to lift, rather than power through like you can with the Porsche.
Comparisons have to be tempered with experience and the fact the behaviour of both cars can be significantly altered with mechanical adjustments to chassis and/or aero. One of the Caymans we drove on the track on the launch event had, for instance, been set soft front/hard rear on the three-step anti-roll bar settings and was massively oversteery compared with the default set-up on the other cars. Let's just say it had been configured with photo and video shoots in mind.
I don't doubt you could do the same with the Lotus too, given the amount of adjustment available.
As I say, nothing on this road drive in different cars from ones I'd driven previously overturned any significant impressions previously derived from testing them on track. So I stand by what I said, hopefully this just helps a little with the context of the conclusions.
Cheers!
Dan
Looks like the masses would like us to.....
a) take this to the track
b) go back to those roads [now dampers have been fiddled with] or find some others.
Still think both are great cars though. Not sure why everyone wants a 'winner'?
. Have to admit the Exige looks great here, especially in Cup spec and that colour. 
ks. Your mistake would be giving a fI think the GT4 have been tested against the Exige S Club Racer, they seem much closer. The Club Racer is slightly less hardcore and has Bilstein dampers, but still intended for regular track use. It is 6k cheaper than the CUP, making it look great value.
http://www.lotuscars.com/exige-s-club-racer
http://www.lotuscars.com/exige-s-club-racer
Edited by robinandcamera on Monday 7th September 13:25
so... a GT4 is actually 105k (after market adjustment of 25k) and a exige cup is near 70k (after race seats/ A-frame/ TTX dampers)...
that sounds about right when you think that to make the lotus equivalent in terms of usability, you actually need to spend around 30k to get a golf R. The combo would be ace.
However , you would have double the running costs in terms of garage/maintenance/cleaning/insurance/tax etc... not that I mind.
still think the elise cup is the pick of lotus cars currently..
that sounds about right when you think that to make the lotus equivalent in terms of usability, you actually need to spend around 30k to get a golf R. The combo would be ace.
However , you would have double the running costs in terms of garage/maintenance/cleaning/insurance/tax etc... not that I mind.
still think the elise cup is the pick of lotus cars currently..
Having owned an S2 Exige then a Cayman S it seems that these 2 new cars are the same as their predecessors in terms of differences.
The Porsche is a better all rounder so if you like doing euro trips and trackdays at the 'Ring, Spa and other far away places it's the car to go for.
For pure trackday use and Sunday morning blats the Exige is probably more engaging.
Either way you wouldn't be disappointed to open your garage door on a sunny day and find either of them sitting there.
The Porsche is a better all rounder so if you like doing euro trips and trackdays at the 'Ring, Spa and other far away places it's the car to go for.
For pure trackday use and Sunday morning blats the Exige is probably more engaging.
Either way you wouldn't be disappointed to open your garage door on a sunny day and find either of them sitting there.
franki68 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The real benefit of the Porsche is that no one will really know what it is. It'll just blend in with all the youngster's and wife's anniversary gift ones. Will quietly blend into the background with all the other mass produced cars. Whereas that Lotus is always going to stand out. There will be no escaping it. Every time you open the garage door you are going to be faced with something that was built purely for you personally to enjoy the thrill of. On top of that, the Lotus will be a bit embarrassing to park up at the shops as no one is going to realise it's a £70k car. People are just going to think that you really like driving and special cars but are poor. Unlike the Porsche where everyone is going to know that your husband is successful and rich. Albeit, not enough to have got you a 911.
alternatively the real benefit of the porsche is that bits wont fall off randomly,after 12 months it wont look like a car that has done 300,000 miles over a hard 20 years,most of the stuff will work ,and finally petrolheads will know that if you're in the lotus...you didn't make the cut for the gt4.Interesting choice of test venue - for the last 23 years these have been my own hunting ground/test track - there are some really great, challenging roads on't borders. The majority of the roads are n Yorkshire not my side of the border in Lancashire.
The car I've driven that probably best handled the bumps was my friend's standardly suspended Classic Impreza with a PPP - my AX GT didn't do bad either.
I can fully confirm the unforgiving bumpiness of the roads - on the day I passed my test I took my dad's 1.6 Austin Montego, fully loaded with college mates, for a over-confident hormone fueled "maximum attack" run out of Greenfield along the Isle of Sky road towards Holmfirth and promptly almost killed us all when the car went airborne attempting an overtake more ambitious than trying to pull Kelly Brook while wearing a Team Subaru Anorak and a pair of Speedos.
Since that day I have provided these roads with the respect they have deserved. Most of the time.......
The car I've driven that probably best handled the bumps was my friend's standardly suspended Classic Impreza with a PPP - my AX GT didn't do bad either.
I can fully confirm the unforgiving bumpiness of the roads - on the day I passed my test I took my dad's 1.6 Austin Montego, fully loaded with college mates, for a over-confident hormone fueled "maximum attack" run out of Greenfield along the Isle of Sky road towards Holmfirth and promptly almost killed us all when the car went airborne attempting an overtake more ambitious than trying to pull Kelly Brook while wearing a Team Subaru Anorak and a pair of Speedos.
Since that day I have provided these roads with the respect they have deserved. Most of the time.......
Just sold my V6 exige and look forward to the delivery of my GT4 in a few weeks time. For me the downside of Exige ownership was the impractical side of the car for instance two blokes side by side is quite uncomfortable, getting in and out with any semblance of dignity was a struggle and tank size was a pita, on track I found myself filling up at least 3 times a day. The gear change I always felt was a bit poor and transmission a little rattly when warm. For all those quirks if I don't get on with the Porsche I will happily go back to Lotus and buy a cup car utilising my 20k profit in the process.
The Porsche will cost more without doubt but ownership will no doubt cost less in the long run for those of us lucky enough to have confirmed orders, I'm thinking Exige 400 is the obvious way forward(-:
The Porsche will cost more without doubt but ownership will no doubt cost less in the long run for those of us lucky enough to have confirmed orders, I'm thinking Exige 400 is the obvious way forward(-:
Darsettian said:
EricE said:
Darsettian said:
pesto pasta and pumpkin salad
Mind sharing the recipe? I'm in the mood for some pumpkin salad today.a small pumpkin or squash
bag of spinach leaf
handful of mixed seeds (e.g. sunflower & pumpkin, or similar)
a red or yellow pepper
half a small red onion
lump of feta cheese (or a preferred cheese)
mushrooms
Pre-heat oven to 180deg fan-assisted, 200deg conventional
Cut the pumpkin (or squash) into 2-3cm cubes. Be consistent
Spread cubed pumpkin onto a baking tray, drizzle with olive oil, lightly season and bake til golden (30-40mins)
Chop mushrooms and panfry in olive oil til golden. Add to salad bowl.
Panfry mixed seeds without oil. They're ready when you can smell them (they smell delicious). Add to salad bowl.
Put Spinach leaf + chopped pepper + roughly cubed Feta + chopped red onion into salad bowl.
Add ground black pepper to taste and plenty of olive oil.
Add baked pumpkin. Toss salad. Done...
If you're having as a main, you may wish to add croutons – use a 'proper' bakers' loaf (soughdough and tiger bread good). Cut into rough cubes, douse in olive oil, sprinkle with grated hard cheese and oven bake til golden. Mix with the salad or serve separately!
Edited by Darsettian on Monday 7th September 06:45
Your friends will think your dinner was much more expensive to make and you might even turn a profit on it in a few years !
twinturban said:
So what have we learnt?
This isn't a comparison between the GT4 and the V6 Cup. This is a comparison between the GT4 and the only available Exige V6 you could get your hands on.
Pistonheads was offered a 'regular' Exige V6, but they declined. Read into that what you will.This isn't a comparison between the GT4 and the V6 Cup. This is a comparison between the GT4 and the only available Exige V6 you could get your hands on.
jamespink said:
Funny but honestly, how could you knowingly sink £65k in the Lotus? The proof of the pud is the "sold out" sign in the Porsche window. Proper car, hard, fast, reliable, appreciating investment at any point from today to 25 years time like all the special 911s - £300k 2.7 RS any one?
yeah? as an ex porc man, you watch knowingly me sink more than £65k into the exige 400 when its available..... i have already seen more gt4s in london than my exige v6s and i have owned that for a couple of years..i wont go into just how special the thing feels - picked up on in that article - .. don't know where you are getting your gt4 to a special 911 comparison from? the only comparison is limited volume and that's if it really does stay limited.
the gt4 has a mass produced carrera engine on a trick chassis. nice package but let down by the long carerra gearing....that said the gt4 would make a good shopping trip jalopy or cruising (in all senses) car retaliative to the exige ....
real men and boys (ahem - hairdressers)
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