Fans on your intercooler !
Discussion
While i'm hunting the classifieds for a 3R, I came accross a 2.5 car on ebay that has added 2 radiator fans to his intercooler, my first thought is that it was a silly idea, but I guess if your stuck in traffic alot, it would help intake temps, but then in traffic you wouldnt get any benefit as you cant use the dense air and put your foot down
So is it as daft an idea as it appears, or does it have merrit ?
He's also removed the rear spoiler which looks good, although I wouldnt do it.
Image can be seen on the fleabay advert - I am unassociated with this car and do not wish to promote the ad, but I couldnt find another way of adding the image of the engine bay
So is it as daft an idea as it appears, or does it have merrit ?
He's also removed the rear spoiler which looks good, although I wouldnt do it.
Image can be seen on the fleabay advert - I am unassociated with this car and do not wish to promote the ad, but I couldnt find another way of adding the image of the engine bay
Edited by Midlifecrisis71 on Saturday 19th September 09:07
If yor stuck in traffic do you really need the fans? After all the engine won't be making boost. As soon as you get moving the airflow over the core, and the air passing through the core, will pull the temp of the intercooler down very quickly. The fans can also add restriction.
It would be nice to see some testing done though. Air speed over the core at say 60mph with and without fans. This would prove if the fans are adding anything at all.
It would be nice to see some testing done though. Air speed over the core at say 60mph with and without fans. This would prove if the fans are adding anything at all.
My previous car had water sprays on the intercooler, a lot of work was done to test the system and the end result was that from one extreme to the other, you could gain 2hp.
The consensus was that removing the pump and distilled water container made a better improvement in weight saving !! then if you used the space created to duct cold air to the intake filter, it was far more useful than the water spray.
However, I left mine in place, preferring originality over the extra debatable hp
The consensus was that removing the pump and distilled water container made a better improvement in weight saving !! then if you used the space created to duct cold air to the intake filter, it was far more useful than the water spray.
However, I left mine in place, preferring originality over the extra debatable hp
Jim O. said:
Even easier than trying to measure the air speed through the intercooler is just watching the intake air temps. You can either install a temp sender in the intake piping hooked up to a gauge inside the car, or (even easier) hook up a laptop and use the diagnostic software...
Only problem with that him is you have to be in boost to get any real figures. The airspeed test is more repeatable as you only need to set the speed. It's also worth noting that people have used the like of the ProAlly intercooler upto about 600bhp I think. So it's probably worth just getting one if them and leaving the fans out.
chuntington101 said:
If yor stuck in traffic do you really need the fans? After all the engine won't be making boost. As soon as you get moving the airflow over the core, and the air passing through the core, will pull the temp of the intercooler down very quickly. The fans can also add restriction.
It would be nice to see some testing done though. Air speed over the core at say 60mph with and without fans. This would prove if the fans are adding anything at all.
Its been done, the aero design of the rear of the car and clam means the IC gets little airflow as it is, and not enough to re-cool a hot IC. The Fan solution is probably effective enough for a street car and 2.5, but it is telling that the big HP and race cars go for Pro Alloy Intercooler.It would be nice to see some testing done though. Air speed over the core at say 60mph with and without fans. This would prove if the fans are adding anything at all.
You don't 'need' your intercooler to be cool when in traffic and when moving the fans will provide a restriction.... given the fans would never be able to flow enough air to cool the intercooler when actually on boost you are simply trying to solve a problem that does not really matter and in doing so make it less efficient when it actually does matter.
Of cause if your car can't cool the intercooler once it is heat soaked then you have another tissue altogether.... but then you will have a worse issue when actually on boost as that will heat soak it a lot more than sitting idling.
If you think about what the intercooler is doing... its having air flow through it, when you are 'on boost' that air will be megga hot as its being compressed and going through the hot turbo and thus the intercooler will try to shed heat in the air flowing through it by absorbing it and then shedding it into the outside air (hopefully) flowing through it.
If however you are NOT 'On boost' then the air going through the intercooler should be relatively cool as its not compressed and your turbo should be relatively cool... thus the air flowing through it will actually cool the intercooler in reverse, so if you are moving you 'hopefully' have a double cooling effect shedding the heat soak you got when stationary.
On track you will be 'on it' and thus the air going into the intercooler will be red hot, way hotter than any heat soak on my car... therefore if your intercooler can't shed heat into the atmosphere efficiently then you will overheat and have major issues within a lap of 2, fans would make this worse.
This is all IMO and I have seen some serious Noble with fans fitted to their intercoolers so not everyone shares my view.
Of cause if your car can't cool the intercooler once it is heat soaked then you have another tissue altogether.... but then you will have a worse issue when actually on boost as that will heat soak it a lot more than sitting idling.
If you think about what the intercooler is doing... its having air flow through it, when you are 'on boost' that air will be megga hot as its being compressed and going through the hot turbo and thus the intercooler will try to shed heat in the air flowing through it by absorbing it and then shedding it into the outside air (hopefully) flowing through it.
If however you are NOT 'On boost' then the air going through the intercooler should be relatively cool as its not compressed and your turbo should be relatively cool... thus the air flowing through it will actually cool the intercooler in reverse, so if you are moving you 'hopefully' have a double cooling effect shedding the heat soak you got when stationary.
On track you will be 'on it' and thus the air going into the intercooler will be red hot, way hotter than any heat soak on my car... therefore if your intercooler can't shed heat into the atmosphere efficiently then you will overheat and have major issues within a lap of 2, fans would make this worse.
This is all IMO and I have seen some serious Noble with fans fitted to their intercoolers so not everyone shares my view.
Fit fans, people think the main purpose of an intercooler it to up the power. It's not, it too stop your pistons melting. Yes the cooler air will be more dense etc. Sat in traffic they will heat soak as the induction air is still flowing through roasting hot turbos.
I have just bought my 1st m12 and it will have fans fitted to the ic
I have just bought my 1st m12 and it will have fans fitted to the ic
Congrats on the M12. Which one did you buy? One of the PH ones?
As above, the Pro Alloy intercooler will go a long way to fixing the high intake temps caused by the poorly functioning original intercooler, but know that above low speeds, all those fans serve to do is block the airflow through the IC.
As above, the Pro Alloy intercooler will go a long way to fixing the high intake temps caused by the poorly functioning original intercooler, but know that above low speeds, all those fans serve to do is block the airflow through the IC.
Hi folks
I have owned my 3R for 3 years now and cringe at my original post above !
However, I have not added fans as yet on the IC, I haven't come across a need. I'm running the original IC which gets hot, but that's its job.
Still thinking a "suck" fan on the back of the IC might help and would hinder airflow less. But as I say, I may be trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.......... jury is still out
I have owned my 3R for 3 years now and cringe at my original post above !
However, I have not added fans as yet on the IC, I haven't come across a need. I'm running the original IC which gets hot, but that's its job.
Still thinking a "suck" fan on the back of the IC might help and would hinder airflow less. But as I say, I may be trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.......... jury is still out
It's also worth noting that people have used the like of the ProAlly intercooler upto about 600bhp I think. So it's probably worth just getting one if them and leaving the fans out.
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I run 720bhp through a pro alloy IC with no heat soak problems.
There are far better ways to get cool air into the engine bay than fitting restrictive fans onto the IC.
All fans will do is spread the heat around the engine bay.
You will always have rising temps (ACT) when in traffic.
Why on earth would you want to spread the heat around the engine bay? When engine temps are far more important the ACT. In traffic especially when you are not on boost.
One thing I do in traffic is leave a good space from the car in front allowing cooler air to be sucked in by the radiator, and crawl forward allowing no boost.
Never had a problem .
The ultimate solution has to be like what Andy did and stand up the Intercooler, use a larger core and open up the rear to allow the air pit. Would love to see one like that using a Garrett new 4inch core (rated to about 1000bhp by Garrett).
Only thing then is getting more ambient airflow to the core. Could scoop some from above the rear wheels in addition to the scoop?....
Only thing then is getting more ambient airflow to the core. Could scoop some from above the rear wheels in addition to the scoop?....
Just to be clear about the 'pistons melting' idea... all the ECU's pull boost when the inlet air temp is high so if you boot it after heat soak has occurred sitting in traffic the ECU stops this.
Also an intercooler isn't really there to cool your air due to roasting hot turbos (they won't usually be roasting in traffic anyhow as they are water cooled and hot being used), its there to cool the air when the air is compressed and thus heats up.
A poor intercooler will get more heat soak during use than while its stood in traffic, last thing you want to do is make it even less efficient when its doing its job (as fans will add a restriction at speed) just because your worried about it getting hot when its not being used.
If you are concerned your engine is getting hot in traffic, look towards upgrading the water cooling and then the oil cooling as these are the things that are genuinely controlling your engine and piston temps in traffic.
Also an intercooler isn't really there to cool your air due to roasting hot turbos (they won't usually be roasting in traffic anyhow as they are water cooled and hot being used), its there to cool the air when the air is compressed and thus heats up.
A poor intercooler will get more heat soak during use than while its stood in traffic, last thing you want to do is make it even less efficient when its doing its job (as fans will add a restriction at speed) just because your worried about it getting hot when its not being used.
If you are concerned your engine is getting hot in traffic, look towards upgrading the water cooling and then the oil cooling as these are the things that are genuinely controlling your engine and piston temps in traffic.
There is only one way to answer the question. Fix fans to an IC then follow a same spec car on a route with a mix of roads and compare data. I'm going to fit a pro alloy IC so might try on mine and compare. Or I might just stay in bed.
I've put a deposit on a 02 GTO in nice condition from Giles Cooper. Just got to pay for it now but can't wait to take delivery. I want to take it up to about 400ish bhp. So plan on new IC, oil cooler, what else what you guys advise before a remap?
Thanks,
Rob.
I've put a deposit on a 02 GTO in nice condition from Giles Cooper. Just got to pay for it now but can't wait to take delivery. I want to take it up to about 400ish bhp. So plan on new IC, oil cooler, what else what you guys advise before a remap?
Thanks,
Rob.
Hi Rob
Congrats on the car.
I recommend you do some searches here but also join the Fbook group. This subject is covered in detail in the past and you'll find loads of useful info
I havnt had a 2.5, but I think 370hp is about the best compromise between work costs and returns. Check out people who have had problems at 400hp with a 2.5 in the past.. I may be wrong.
Have fun researching
Congrats on the car.
I recommend you do some searches here but also join the Fbook group. This subject is covered in detail in the past and you'll find loads of useful info
I havnt had a 2.5, but I think 370hp is about the best compromise between work costs and returns. Check out people who have had problems at 400hp with a 2.5 in the past.. I may be wrong.
Have fun researching
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