Do you ever envy those rocket ships with 1WD?
Discussion
Purity14 said:
Cyder said:
No I don't envy them as I sit there in my leather heated seat, listening to the radio and drinking coffee.
In winter I wear a heated suit with heated grips.I listen to music through my helmet via bluetooth.
I dont have time for the coffee though, because I am already at my destination.
This nearly cost my son his left leg, despite me warning him.
You need to be able to hear 100% what's going on around you.
Tribal Chestnut said:
MarshPhantom said:
Tribal Chestnut said:
I've recently been commuting on the M25 from 19-10, don't know how the f
k anyone could do such a stty journey on anything other than a bike. God awful road that is.
I'd rather spend an extra few minutes in a car than freeze my nuts off on a bike.k anyone could do such a stty journey on anything other than a bike. God awful road that is.Edited by Tribal Chestnut on Saturday 3rd October 08:19
Bikers always discount the time it takes to get all your kit on and off at both ends too.
MarshPhantom said:
I'm familiar with it, it's probably one the busiest sections of motorway in the world. A bike would make little difference on the rest of M25 as the queues are not nearly as bad as they used to since the widening.
Bikers always discount the time it takes to get all your kit on and off at both ends too.
You drive your car naked? Bikers always discount the time it takes to get all your kit on and off at both ends too.
We've all got ta get dressed in the morning!
Hungrymc said:
RoverP6B said:
It was forty years ago, I very much doubt the report still exists at all.
Maybe the story has been embellished over time?Quite possible two people died, but not remotely likley to be quite in the manner described.
MarshPhantom said:
I'm not a biker but I know enough people that have been killed on bikes, two brothers killed in separate incidents for example. I also know people that have suffered terrible injuries. I don't know anyone that's been killed in a plane crash. I also don't know anyone that's been killed driving cars, riding pushbikes etc. The only people I know who have died in accidents have been bikers. And they were generally the bikers fault.
Sorry, but that's a fact.
I am a biker (but started late, only taking it up at 23). I'm glad on reflection that I wasn't riding from 16 or 18 as my first few years driving were awful. Way too fast, a few minor incidents and a few near misses. All may have been worse on a bike.Sorry, but that's a fact.
But in 20 years of riding, I've not had more than bruises (including evading an oncoming vehicle which drifted onto my side of the road and forced me to take an FZR 1000 off roading into the trees and bushes at 50 ish).
I've been off a coule of times where it was my fault, but I pick the times where I push harder and it is generally when there aren't other vehicles to get tangled up with. I accept it has its risks. But we all make our life choices don't we.
You need to be very careful of projecting your personal experiences and believing it's the norm and therefore 'fact' for everyone.
I do have friends who have lost friends on bikes (considering I know many many bike riders, surprisingly few), no one I know directly has been killed or very badly injured. I do however know a young lady who lost her legs in a car accident last year. And I knew a few people who lost their lives in cars. If I extrapolate my personal experience, I'd be saying cars are more dangerous. Of course I don't believe that. My point is bad examples and even trends and statistics only tell half the story and each incident needs individual assessment. I totally agree that a great deal of bike accidents will be caused (or heavily contributed to) by the bIke. This is good news though as it shows that a lot more of your safety is in your own hands than people like to suggest.
If you're looking for the safest way to go about your life, buy a large safe car and drive it very carefully. If your looking for demanding, challenging and involving experience (if Elise's and Caterhams appeal to you), you will be absolutely thrilled by a bike. Just ride it with a mind set that your safety is your responsibility.
So, sorry but your facts don't have a fraction of the value that you are assigning to them.
Main problem with bikers is their happily accepting drivers' co-operation in letting them by - easy enough to move a little left and single flash on LH indicator - but then being in complete and utter denial when the boot is on the other foot . On a number of occasions I have caught bikers on bendy roads in my Caterham - but any chance of letting me by ? None whatsoever- obviously they out accelerate me but then it's back on the brakes and so slow through the bends . Worst experiences - 50 plus Harleys blundering along at 45mph through Glencoe 2 and 3 abreast; 8 idiots crawling up Bealach Na ba at no more than 25 mph . In both cases I had to be quite ..err..assertive in making my intentions clear.
Rawwr said:
This thread really has shown the ugly nature of an almost depressing number of posters and I'd like to address a few recurring points.
'Organ Donors'
This has the losing combination of being tired, insulting and offensive. Having a wry, smug smile across your face as you pass on this overused quasi-anecdotal gaff to a friend who has just purchased a bike is nothing but awful. It makes a mockery out of those of us who are organ donors and genuinely want to make a contribution to someone else's life after our death. If I was a more malicious person, I'd drop the notion of a being an organ donor just to make a point. So please, just stop it.
'Gimp Suits'
They do a job. Some people hate wearing them but I like all of mine and all three sets get very well looked after, cleaned and nourished to keep them in tip-top condition. I feel that it even adds something to the event of riding a bike, as well as making things feel more comfortable and natural. At this time of the year I tend to use my textiles more for commuting and they really don't look gimpy at all.
'One Trick Pony'
This is the one that made me raise most of my eyebrows. I love both cars and bikes and have been fortunate to own a couple of Elises and a 340R. I've also enjoyed driving things with badges that say 'GT2', 'F50' and stuff like that. For me, no matter how astonishing the cars were and how big of an erection they gave me, none of them can compare to a bike terms of tactility and sensation. The biking experience is just so much more... 3D.
I think a lot of this feeling comes from the position of your head. When you're driving a car your head, for the most part, stays in the same place, rotating on one axis as you take your obs. On a bike, your body position combined with the pitch, roll and lean of the bike means you're just getting more of an experience. It's really hard to put that into words so I'm going to quit whilst I'm behind.
The speed of bikes - particularly modern sports bikes - is fairly outrageous and is becoming evermore accessible due to some impressive electronics packages straight out of the factory but speed is still merely a byproduct of power and weight and for road riding it pales into insignificance next to everything else you're giving and receiving from the bike. Going through Coppice in a 340R is exciting and entertaining but going through Coppice on a bike for the first few times is just intense and incredible.
'Bikes are all dangerous'
I've paraphrased a bit but that seems to have been touted a few times. We're not all dangerous. I'll freely admit that on more than a couple of occasions I've witnessed some fairly shocking riding but they're definitely in the minority. Generally, I believe most bikers do have a reasonable sense of self-preservation and do actively try to mitigate any major personal disasters. I don't think I could ever say the same about cars. I wholly believe the vast majority of drivers on the road today don't meet what I would describe as a reasonable, safe standard.
'Harleys are too loud, annoying and ruin nice days'
Yes, that's true.
Nice post - I've been driving cars and motorcycles since 1981 and 1982 respectively - your safety on/in both is in your own hands/feet/eyes/brain. 'Organ Donors'
This has the losing combination of being tired, insulting and offensive. Having a wry, smug smile across your face as you pass on this overused quasi-anecdotal gaff to a friend who has just purchased a bike is nothing but awful. It makes a mockery out of those of us who are organ donors and genuinely want to make a contribution to someone else's life after our death. If I was a more malicious person, I'd drop the notion of a being an organ donor just to make a point. So please, just stop it.
'Gimp Suits'
They do a job. Some people hate wearing them but I like all of mine and all three sets get very well looked after, cleaned and nourished to keep them in tip-top condition. I feel that it even adds something to the event of riding a bike, as well as making things feel more comfortable and natural. At this time of the year I tend to use my textiles more for commuting and they really don't look gimpy at all.
'One Trick Pony'
This is the one that made me raise most of my eyebrows. I love both cars and bikes and have been fortunate to own a couple of Elises and a 340R. I've also enjoyed driving things with badges that say 'GT2', 'F50' and stuff like that. For me, no matter how astonishing the cars were and how big of an erection they gave me, none of them can compare to a bike terms of tactility and sensation. The biking experience is just so much more... 3D.
I think a lot of this feeling comes from the position of your head. When you're driving a car your head, for the most part, stays in the same place, rotating on one axis as you take your obs. On a bike, your body position combined with the pitch, roll and lean of the bike means you're just getting more of an experience. It's really hard to put that into words so I'm going to quit whilst I'm behind.
The speed of bikes - particularly modern sports bikes - is fairly outrageous and is becoming evermore accessible due to some impressive electronics packages straight out of the factory but speed is still merely a byproduct of power and weight and for road riding it pales into insignificance next to everything else you're giving and receiving from the bike. Going through Coppice in a 340R is exciting and entertaining but going through Coppice on a bike for the first few times is just intense and incredible.
'Bikes are all dangerous'
I've paraphrased a bit but that seems to have been touted a few times. We're not all dangerous. I'll freely admit that on more than a couple of occasions I've witnessed some fairly shocking riding but they're definitely in the minority. Generally, I believe most bikers do have a reasonable sense of self-preservation and do actively try to mitigate any major personal disasters. I don't think I could ever say the same about cars. I wholly believe the vast majority of drivers on the road today don't meet what I would describe as a reasonable, safe standard.
'Harleys are too loud, annoying and ruin nice days'
Yes, that's true.
ride/drive like a pratt and well eventually you will get caught out - that doesn't mean I don't ride/drive quickly or never make progress it just means that I don't do it everywhere all the time.
What riding a motorcycle does teach you is a real awareness of what is going on underneath you and around you because you are that much closer to it all. This awareness does cross over when driving a car. The number of times Mrs BC has said I was gonna ask why you did that but XYZ situation happening ahead has explained it but how did you know?
Wacky Racer said:
With respect, idiotic thing to do, (I've been biking since 1969).
This nearly cost my son his left leg, despite me warning him.
You need to be able to hear 100% what's going on around you.
Pointless on my bike. Between wind and engine noise I can't hear a thing. So it's ear plugs in, to protect my hearing and if them, why not music?This nearly cost my son his left leg, despite me warning him.
You need to be able to hear 100% what's going on around you.
Hungrymc said:
I do have friends who have lost friends on bikes (considering I know many many bike riders, surprisingly few), no one I know directly has been killed or very badly injured. And I knew a few people who lost their lives in cars. If I extrapolate my personal experience, I'd be saying cars are more dangerous. Of course I don't believe that. My point is bad examples and even trends and statistics only tell half the story and each incident needs individual assessment. I totally agree that a great deal of bike accidents will be caused (or heavily contributed to) by the bIke. This is good news though as it shows that a lot more of your safety is in your own hands than people like to suggest.
So, sorry but your facts don't have a fraction of the value that you are assigning to them.
That was exactly the point I was making earlier in the thread. In my own personal experience I should be petrified getting in a car, and be only travelling by bike. Fortunately I have a bit more intelligence than that!So, sorry but your facts don't have a fraction of the value that you are assigning to them.
BTW - S3Fella, stop making me laugh with your responses!
B'stard Child said:
Rawwr said:
This thread really has shown the ugly nature of an almost depressing number of posters and I'd like to address a few recurring points.
'Organ Donors'
This has the losing combination of being tired, insulting and offensive. Having a wry, smug smile across your face as you pass on this overused quasi-anecdotal gaff to a friend who has just purchased a bike is nothing but awful. It makes a mockery out of those of us who are organ donors and genuinely want to make a contribution to someone else's life after our death. If I was a more malicious person, I'd drop the notion of a being an organ donor just to make a point. So please, just stop it.
'Gimp Suits'
They do a job. Some people hate wearing them but I like all of mine and all three sets get very well looked after, cleaned and nourished to keep them in tip-top condition. I feel that it even adds something to the event of riding a bike, as well as making things feel more comfortable and natural. At this time of the year I tend to use my textiles more for commuting and they really don't look gimpy at all.
'One Trick Pony'
This is the one that made me raise most of my eyebrows. I love both cars and bikes and have been fortunate to own a couple of Elises and a 340R. I've also enjoyed driving things with badges that say 'GT2', 'F50' and stuff like that. For me, no matter how astonishing the cars were and how big of an erection they gave me, none of them can compare to a bike terms of tactility and sensation. The biking experience is just so much more... 3D.
I think a lot of this feeling comes from the position of your head. When you're driving a car your head, for the most part, stays in the same place, rotating on one axis as you take your obs. On a bike, your body position combined with the pitch, roll and lean of the bike means you're just getting more of an experience. It's really hard to put that into words so I'm going to quit whilst I'm behind.
The speed of bikes - particularly modern sports bikes - is fairly outrageous and is becoming evermore accessible due to some impressive electronics packages straight out of the factory but speed is still merely a byproduct of power and weight and for road riding it pales into insignificance next to everything else you're giving and receiving from the bike. Going through Coppice in a 340R is exciting and entertaining but going through Coppice on a bike for the first few times is just intense and incredible.
'Bikes are all dangerous'
I've paraphrased a bit but that seems to have been touted a few times. We're not all dangerous. I'll freely admit that on more than a couple of occasions I've witnessed some fairly shocking riding but they're definitely in the minority. Generally, I believe most bikers do have a reasonable sense of self-preservation and do actively try to mitigate any major personal disasters. I don't think I could ever say the same about cars. I wholly believe the vast majority of drivers on the road today don't meet what I would describe as a reasonable, safe standard.
'Harleys are too loud, annoying and ruin nice days'
Yes, that's true.
Nice post - I've been driving cars and motorcycles since 1981 and 1982 respectively - your safety on/in both is in your own hands/feet/eyes/brain. 'Organ Donors'
This has the losing combination of being tired, insulting and offensive. Having a wry, smug smile across your face as you pass on this overused quasi-anecdotal gaff to a friend who has just purchased a bike is nothing but awful. It makes a mockery out of those of us who are organ donors and genuinely want to make a contribution to someone else's life after our death. If I was a more malicious person, I'd drop the notion of a being an organ donor just to make a point. So please, just stop it.
'Gimp Suits'
They do a job. Some people hate wearing them but I like all of mine and all three sets get very well looked after, cleaned and nourished to keep them in tip-top condition. I feel that it even adds something to the event of riding a bike, as well as making things feel more comfortable and natural. At this time of the year I tend to use my textiles more for commuting and they really don't look gimpy at all.
'One Trick Pony'
This is the one that made me raise most of my eyebrows. I love both cars and bikes and have been fortunate to own a couple of Elises and a 340R. I've also enjoyed driving things with badges that say 'GT2', 'F50' and stuff like that. For me, no matter how astonishing the cars were and how big of an erection they gave me, none of them can compare to a bike terms of tactility and sensation. The biking experience is just so much more... 3D.
I think a lot of this feeling comes from the position of your head. When you're driving a car your head, for the most part, stays in the same place, rotating on one axis as you take your obs. On a bike, your body position combined with the pitch, roll and lean of the bike means you're just getting more of an experience. It's really hard to put that into words so I'm going to quit whilst I'm behind.
The speed of bikes - particularly modern sports bikes - is fairly outrageous and is becoming evermore accessible due to some impressive electronics packages straight out of the factory but speed is still merely a byproduct of power and weight and for road riding it pales into insignificance next to everything else you're giving and receiving from the bike. Going through Coppice in a 340R is exciting and entertaining but going through Coppice on a bike for the first few times is just intense and incredible.
'Bikes are all dangerous'
I've paraphrased a bit but that seems to have been touted a few times. We're not all dangerous. I'll freely admit that on more than a couple of occasions I've witnessed some fairly shocking riding but they're definitely in the minority. Generally, I believe most bikers do have a reasonable sense of self-preservation and do actively try to mitigate any major personal disasters. I don't think I could ever say the same about cars. I wholly believe the vast majority of drivers on the road today don't meet what I would describe as a reasonable, safe standard.
'Harleys are too loud, annoying and ruin nice days'
Yes, that's true.
ride/drive like a pratt and well eventually you will get caught out - that doesn't mean I don't ride/drive quickly or never make progress it just means that I don't do it everywhere all the time.
What riding a motorcycle does teach you is a real awareness of what is going on underneath you and around you because you are that much closer to it all. This awareness does cross over when driving a car. The number of times Mrs BC has said I was gonna ask why you did that but XYZ situation happening ahead has explained it but how did you know?
Users of motorized vehicles of all kinds, should stick together, rather than criticizing the motoring choice of others (I know this because I have criticized the motoring choice of others in the past, and then realized that doing so was not very bright, in a world where some elements of society want private transport banned.
I envy those who have either grown up with, or developed the skill to ride a big bike safely and well on todays roads, unfortunately I did not, but even now like the idea of having just a smallish motor bike in the garage. (wonder if anyone does a diesel bike? The Russians perhaps?)
drivin_me_nuts said:
ride a cycle on relatively busy roads and particularly of late, having become attuned to expecting the unexpected around me, I wonder how much more of a risk bike riding is.
Having gone out on fast road cycle rides or commuted on them I feel much safer on the motorbike. People don't seem to see you or treat you as a second-class citizen on the pedal bike who can be ignored or cut up. You can't compare the two. I got all of the scare stories about falling off and people pulling out on you when I took my test. I can think of one occasion in my riding that it's come close and it was my fault for overtaking slow-moving traffic near a junction.
I think a lot of the people who experience that are the sort that speed up to close a gap when they can see someone about to pull in to their lane or out of a side road. They cause the situation to give themselves a reason to get aggrieved and then tell everyone about the idiots on their drive. Either there are fewer idiots where I drive or they're not driving/riding in a defensive way.
liner33 said:
Its often forgotten that people die driving cars and even trucks ....all the time, if people knew how vulnerable they are they would no doubt drive differently , at least bikers understand this
Exactly, the way some people drive their cars shows they feel pretty much invincible. liner33 said:
Its often forgotten that people die driving cars and even trucks ....all the time, if people knew how vulnerable they are they would no doubt drive differently , at least bikers understand this
Bikers tend to die (or break a pelvis, leg etc) a lot more easily than someone cocooned in a car, bus, truck, tank etc etc.Mechanism of injury is a b
h isn't it.I'd love a bike, however as carefully as I'd ride, there are always other road users who wouldn't be as careful.
In my opinion (get that?) It's not worth the risk.
MarshPhantom said:
Tribal Chestnut said:
MarshPhantom said:
Tribal Chestnut said:
I've recently been commuting on the M25 from 19-10, don't know how the fk anyone could do such a stty journey on anything other than a bike. God awful road that is.
I'd rather spend an extra few minutes in a car than freeze my nuts off on a bike.k anyone could do such a stty journey on anything other than a bike. God awful road that is.Edited by Tribal Chestnut on Saturday 3rd October 08:19
Bikers always discount the time it takes to get all your kit on and off at both ends too.
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