Running in a new engine
Discussion
SHutchinson said:
On a different topic should I stop practicing launch control starts on my girlfriends brand spanking new S3?
Absolutely not. I've read many times on the internet that abusing a new car is good for the engine, leading to long-term improvements in power, emissions and reliability. Keep up the good work.SHutchinson said:
Running engines in? Do people still do that?
Why would they ? All engine are pre-run in the factory by a dedicated team, all part of the service.In the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Absolutely not. I've read many times on the internet that abusing a new car is good for the engine, leading to long-term improvements in power, emissions and reliability. Keep up the good work.
It's a controversial subject. But through all my research I found it's only racing engines that tend to get this treatment as it's the quickest way of getting the rings to seal. Fine for that application, but if you intend to keep the car very long term it's not advisable. Too much load causes localised heat build up at the peaks on the surface of a honed cylinder and can lead to the oil overheating which leads to glazing. Too little load is even worse as the rings won't bed in and over time the thicker oil film oxidises and also leads to glazing.The latter is a bigger problem on high power engines as it takes a lot more conscious effort to ensure it's being regularly loaded at 50-75% (depending on break in stage). So high power engines do need to be flexed but certainly not thrashed seems to be the general consensus.
nickfrog said:
Why would they ? All engine are pre-run in the factory by a dedicated team, all part of the service.
In the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
Not true. I work with a manufacturing engineer whom used to work at engine plants. He's not sure on how long is too long for steady state driving, but he did tell me engines are only cold tested. I.e. They get spun up with an electric motor with only oil in to test all sorts of different things. Every 50th engine is taken for "torture testing" and is subject to lots of horrible things running hot. But the engine is then scrapped.In the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
After they leave the factory they're assembled into the car at the final assembly plant and put on a dyno to check the car meets performance criteria etc but this is only for a few minutes. The cars are then driven around a test circuit to check for rattles etc and to make sure there are no suspension/steering/drivetrain issues.
With much better manufacturing and materials it doesn't take anything like as long to bed in a new engine compared to yesteryear. But they still need treating with care to ensure everything beds in properly, particularly the piston rings over and above anything else.
I knew most of this before I took delivery of the car but somehow missed the part about steady state driving, dohhh
Edited by VeeFource on Friday 9th October 10:15
I have given this subject some thought in the past because if I were to find myself running in a new engine it'd probably be a new or rebuilt engine in a Caterham race car, where all competitors have the 'same engine' and that last fraction of a percent of performance supposedly provided by the mototune break-in method would actually be useful and noticable. That's exactly the situation where it is worth trying the hard break in method.
As I said earlier though, if it were a road car I think I'd probably just drive it normally ensuring that I vary the load and revvs.
As I said earlier though, if it were a road car I think I'd probably just drive it normally ensuring that I vary the load and revvs.
nickfrog said:
Why would they ? All engine are pre-run in the factory by a dedicated team, all part of the service.
In the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
That gave me a Friday chuckleIn the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
Its not this.
For anyone interested in this subject, I found a great engineering article which states just how important breaking a new engine in is in the very early stages (skip to section 9.1.1 on page 72):
http://www.vtt.fi/inf/pdf/tiedotteet/2002/T2178.pd...
Interesting (to me anyway lol) how the cylinder liner wears 12 times more in the first hour than the following two and even more so that 84% of piston ring wear takes place in the first 22 minutes. This latter point is the most important as it's a much harder material than the liner.
It's good news for me anyways as the car didn't hit the motorway for the first 40 mins and even the hour after it was slowly taken up from 50-70mph.
http://www.vtt.fi/inf/pdf/tiedotteet/2002/T2178.pd...
Interesting (to me anyway lol) how the cylinder liner wears 12 times more in the first hour than the following two and even more so that 84% of piston ring wear takes place in the first 22 minutes. This latter point is the most important as it's a much harder material than the liner.
It's good news for me anyways as the car didn't hit the motorway for the first 40 mins and even the hour after it was slowly taken up from 50-70mph.
rigga said:
nickfrog said:
Why would they ? All engine are pre-run in the factory by a dedicated team, all part of the service.
In the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
That gave me a Friday chuckleIn the process, they also run in the box, clutch, tyres, discs etc etc. They have a dedicated track, they do a good 1000 miles and then rewind the mileage back.
Just buy it and cane it.
Its not this.
from his post. (No way can he can think this is actually done!)SHutchinson said:
Are you one of lifes worriers by any chance?
Haha, guess I am when it comes to things like this. Was more annoyed than anything though that this isn't pointed out to customers buying a new car, especially as this is a good reason to spend the extra over an ex demo which will have been thrashed to death from cold.conkerman said:
If it breaks it'll be quite soon and will be under warranty. If it doesn't she'll be reet.
Wow, that’s some black and white thinking right there! The grey bit is that if the rings don’t seat and you glaze your cylinders you get less power, worse economy, high oil consumption & less longevity. I plan to keep the car a long time so these things matter, even though I can understand why most people wouldn’t care less. But given they’re easily avoided too with just a little bit of knowledge, why be ignorant when you’ve just paid top whack? Think about how much people pay upgrading their intakes and exhausts too just to get a few more bhp when you can get them for free at the beginning..All brand new cars if had have been treated to normal driving - eg. At least 1 redline a day.
Never blown an engine, never had oil consumption problems, never had coking problems (on either fsi not tfsi engines)
Actually same goes for my motorbikes as well.
The key is regular oil changes and warming the oil by gentle driving (not idling) prior to caning the engine
Never blown an engine, never had oil consumption problems, never had coking problems (on either fsi not tfsi engines)
Actually same goes for my motorbikes as well.
The key is regular oil changes and warming the oil by gentle driving (not idling) prior to caning the engine
hman said:
All brand new cars if had have been treated to normal driving - eg. At least 1 redline a day.
Never blown an engine, never had oil consumption problems, never had coking problems (on either fsi not tfsi engines)
Actually same goes for my motorbikes as well.
The key is regular oil changes and warming the oil by gentle driving (not idling) prior to caning the engine
Pretty much this Never blown an engine, never had oil consumption problems, never had coking problems (on either fsi not tfsi engines)
Actually same goes for my motorbikes as well.
The key is regular oil changes and warming the oil by gentle driving (not idling) prior to caning the engine
I always treat my engines with kid gloves until they are warm and then I drive them normally and occasionally quite hard, back when I was drag racing I used to run a new engine up to temperature and then give it death it was the best way to get a good seal on the rings
with a new car you arent just running in the engine you need to be steady on the clutch, brakes, tyres etc for a few hundred miles , the engine rpm is close to the least of my concerns
I would be fuming.
Personally I would sell the car.
And sue the dealer for not telling you.
Having covered it's first 200 miles at a steady speed on the motorway, it's bound to be knackered.
Or in reality I would accept that it's a bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot run of the mill mass produced engine and actually it makes absolutely naff all difference how it's run in.
As a previous poster said, by the time a new car is delivered, it's already been thrashed by a dozen people, none of whom give a monkeys about treating your new pride and joy with any sympathy whatsoever. Oh, and you can ignore what the odometer says - until the dealer commissions / PDIs the car, modern cars are in 'transit mode' and the odometer stays at zero. The 4 miles that were on the clock when you bought it were all done after the car had arrived at the dealers.
Personally I would sell the car.
And sue the dealer for not telling you.
Having covered it's first 200 miles at a steady speed on the motorway, it's bound to be knackered.
Or in reality I would accept that it's a bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot run of the mill mass produced engine and actually it makes absolutely naff all difference how it's run in.
As a previous poster said, by the time a new car is delivered, it's already been thrashed by a dozen people, none of whom give a monkeys about treating your new pride and joy with any sympathy whatsoever. Oh, and you can ignore what the odometer says - until the dealer commissions / PDIs the car, modern cars are in 'transit mode' and the odometer stays at zero. The 4 miles that were on the clock when you bought it were all done after the car had arrived at the dealers.
38911 said:
I would be fuming.
Personally I would sell the car.
And sue the dealer for not telling you.
Having covered it's first 200 miles at a steady speed on the motorway, it's bound to be knackered.
Or in reality I would accept that it's a bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot run of the mill mass produced engine and actually it makes absolutely naff all difference how it's run in.
As a previous poster said, by the time a new car is delivered, it's already been thrashed by a dozen people, none of whom give a monkeys about treating your new pride and joy with any sympathy whatsoever. Oh, and you can ignore what the odometer says - until the dealer commissions / PDIs the car, modern cars are in 'transit mode' and the odometer stays at zero. The 4 miles that were on the clock when you bought it were all done after the car had arrived at the dealers.
So you've clicked on a thread on a subject you obviously don't really care about and read through all of it only so you can belittle someone else’s concerns?Personally I would sell the car.
And sue the dealer for not telling you.
Having covered it's first 200 miles at a steady speed on the motorway, it's bound to be knackered.
Or in reality I would accept that it's a bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot run of the mill mass produced engine and actually it makes absolutely naff all difference how it's run in.
As a previous poster said, by the time a new car is delivered, it's already been thrashed by a dozen people, none of whom give a monkeys about treating your new pride and joy with any sympathy whatsoever. Oh, and you can ignore what the odometer says - until the dealer commissions / PDIs the car, modern cars are in 'transit mode' and the odometer stays at zero. The 4 miles that were on the clock when you bought it were all done after the car had arrived at the dealers.
How do you know it’s a ”bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot”? It could be a Lotus Elise for all you know.
I might seem overly concerned about the technicalities of running in an engine that you clearly struggle to grasp, but at least I don’t have to worry about feeling the need to go on the internet and condescend other people to make me feel better about myself.
If I were you I’d think about going in for some professional help. Then after that, maybe brush up on your technical knowledge before you start throwing your opinions around
Edited by VeeFource on Wednesday 14th October 12:39
VeeFource said:
So you've clicked on a thread on a subject you obviously don't really care about and read through all of it only so you can belittle someone else’s concerns?
How do you know it’s a ”bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot”? It could be a Lotus Elise for all you know.
I might seem overly concerned about the technicalities of running in an engine that you clearly struggle to grasp, but at least I don’t have to worry about feeling the need to go on the internet and condescend other people to make me feel better about myself.
If I were you I’d think about going in for some professional help. Then after that, maybe brush up on your technical knowledge before you start throwing your opinions around
How do you know it’s a ”bog standard wheezy 1.6 four-pot”? It could be a Lotus Elise for all you know.
I might seem overly concerned about the technicalities of running in an engine that you clearly struggle to grasp, but at least I don’t have to worry about feeling the need to go on the internet and condescend other people to make me feel better about myself.
If I were you I’d think about going in for some professional help. Then after that, maybe brush up on your technical knowledge before you start throwing your opinions around
Edited by VeeFource on Wednesday 14th October 12:39
a 1.6 n/a is still a 1.6 n/a, no matter what it's fitted in! Enjoy your paranoid world of delusion, bye 
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