RE: Mini John Cooper Works Manual: Driven
Discussion
"Crucially, you can still blip your own throttle too"
Wonder when someone at Mini thought that might be a good idea.
Case in point with our R56 Cooper, while you can, I think rev it to the red line in neutral when stationery it caps the rev rise in neutral (and maybe the rate of rise) when traveling at speed so blipping on downshifts or double declutching is a gruesome driver experience / impossible. That's a car fitted with no stability control and I for one would reasonably expect the throttle actuator to 100% emulate what the right foot is doing.
Wonder when someone at Mini thought that might be a good idea.
Case in point with our R56 Cooper, while you can, I think rev it to the red line in neutral when stationery it caps the rev rise in neutral (and maybe the rate of rise) when traveling at speed so blipping on downshifts or double declutching is a gruesome driver experience / impossible. That's a car fitted with no stability control and I for one would reasonably expect the throttle actuator to 100% emulate what the right foot is doing.
Lack of progress? My relatively cheap c£5K a few months ago, 2005 R53 JCW Cooper S is a right little terrier. It exhibits all the handling characteristics that are highlighted as being questionable by their absence in the latest JCW. Great turn in, and grippy but not at the expense of decent feel and adjustability. The LSD stays much more hooked up with the stability control off. I'm amazed at its cross country pace and involvement. The ride is on the firmer side even on non run flat Pilot Sport 3, but it's perfectly liveable with.
It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.
It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.
I was going to order a JCW in August after having tried one of the launch cars with an auto 'box.
Luckily I decided to try a Cooper S manual (there were no manual JCWs available). It was a real disappointment; heavily over-servoed brakes made h&t almost impossible at road speeds, the huge programmed-in flywheel effect made standing starts a squirt-pause-squirt-pause experience and the gear change wasn't that special either. Added to the usual lumpen ride, especially lateral ridges, on oversized wheels, and the inevitable numb steering, and it seemed to me a long way from being a car designed by and for enthusiasts.
It was a shame, but then I discovered I could order a new BMW 135 for less money so it was an easy choice.
SS7
Luckily I decided to try a Cooper S manual (there were no manual JCWs available). It was a real disappointment; heavily over-servoed brakes made h&t almost impossible at road speeds, the huge programmed-in flywheel effect made standing starts a squirt-pause-squirt-pause experience and the gear change wasn't that special either. Added to the usual lumpen ride, especially lateral ridges, on oversized wheels, and the inevitable numb steering, and it seemed to me a long way from being a car designed by and for enthusiasts.
It was a shame, but then I discovered I could order a new BMW 135 for less money so it was an easy choice.
SS7
mnx42 said:
Leins said:
I find I'm missing in my GP1,
One came past me tonight in the outside lane of the A120 ( very cool cars ). I was thinking that I used to think "that is big for a MINI" .... look at the damn things now! I've got mine now and I've got to say I love it.
Came from a Fiesta ST and I've got to admit as a drivers car I honestly think the JCW is better.
I found the ST very crashy like the suspension was right on the edge of giving up. plus there were a few other things I didn't like.
But yeah, love the mini. Wouldn't go back.
Came from a Fiesta ST and I've got to admit as a drivers car I honestly think the JCW is better.
I found the ST very crashy like the suspension was right on the edge of giving up. plus there were a few other things I didn't like.
But yeah, love the mini. Wouldn't go back.
Rumblestripe said:
A beautifully designed, gorgeously detailed interior... but man that frontal aspect!
It reminds me of some wart encrusted fish with mouth agape and cold dead eyes staring up to heaven.
That is an insult to the fish!It reminds me of some wart encrusted fish with mouth agape and cold dead eyes staring up to heaven.
One of the ugliest cars I have ever clapped eyes on ( front on any way), BMW really fooked up with the new one, the previous version was much better looking
samoht said:
I have another theory. With a torque converter, when you lift off, you don't generally get engine braking; rather the converter allows the engine to go back to idle without much connection to the wheels. With a manual, the engine and wheels are still solidly connected, so you get the immediate effect of engine braking. I reckon it's this engine braking that's making the car tuck in nicely, rather than 15kg here or there (if you put your weekly supermarket shop in the passenger footwell that would have the same effect, right?)
I was also thinking that 15kg is highly unlikely to completely change the handling characteristics of the car... It would have to be taken from a very important place like the weight of the wheels.23k reads a bit like 20k sort of you might push to reach there 28k etc reads like 30k so in essence down the pub you can say I have a mini its a JCW with Chili powder etc and you mate will say nice I have a Focus RS......
when I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.
the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.
when I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.
the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.
Ozzie Osmond said:
stephen300o said:
"25 thousand about right.." What sort of dumbells are marching into a showroom and spending all that on these? The worlds gone crazy.
They are close relations of those who will chuck £40,000 and more at a 4-pot Evoque. Who knows, they might own one of each!And I would've thought that IS about right these days, accounting for inflation is that much more than a hot hatch was 20+ years ago? That's an actual question, I don't actually know, but I would guess that the prices aren't too disimmilar.
Gecko1978 said:
23k reads a bit like 20k sort of you might push to reach there 28k etc reads like 30k so in essence down the pub you can say I have a mini its a JCW with Chili powder etc and you mate will say nice I have a Focus RS......
when I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.
the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.
Nonsense - this "style over substance" thing is a complete myth about Minis. A Focus ST wouldn't see which way an equivalent JCW went down a back road, and the same for a lot of other even more powerful carswhen I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.
the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.
Just drove one, I have to say I was HUGELY impressed. My mate has one as his every day car (he also has a Vanquish S and F12) and recons its the dogs bits!
I drove his for 30 minutes and have just spent the last half hour on the mini site lol and will be going into see them at the weekend... Great little cars.
I drove his for 30 minutes and have just spent the last half hour on the mini site lol and will be going into see them at the weekend... Great little cars.
DC2 Mark said:
Lack of progress? My relatively cheap c£5K a few months ago, 2005 R53 JCW Cooper S is a right little terrier. It exhibits all the handling characteristics that are highlighted as being questionable by their absence in the latest JCW. Great turn in, and grippy but not at the expense of decent feel and adjustability. The LSD stays much more hooked up with the stability control off. I'm amazed at its cross country pace and involvement. The ride is on the firmer side even on non run flat Pilot Sport 3, but it's perfectly liveable with.
It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.
The R53 was brilliant when I test drove it. However it wasn't practical enough for me so I went for the Type-R. I have also driven a R56 but found them to be not very good. This JCW sounds interesting but I imagine it would be another letdown for me.It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.
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