RE: Mini John Cooper Works Manual: Driven

RE: Mini John Cooper Works Manual: Driven

Author
Discussion

Flatlander

9 posts

123 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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I haven't tried the mini, but the 8 speed torque converter box in my M235i is a better box than the 7 speed m-DCT in the M4 in my opinion.

M100

84 posts

262 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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"Crucially, you can still blip your own throttle too"

Wonder when someone at Mini thought that might be a good idea.

Case in point with our R56 Cooper, while you can, I think rev it to the red line in neutral when stationery it caps the rev rise in neutral (and maybe the rate of rise) when traveling at speed so blipping on downshifts or double declutching is a gruesome driver experience / impossible. That's a car fitted with no stability control and I for one would reasonably expect the throttle actuator to 100% emulate what the right foot is doing.


Hooch747

64 posts

190 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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How weird, the two things I picked up too - £ 30K for a Mini and 15KG will make sod all difference.

mnx42

215 posts

164 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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Leins said:
I find I'm missing in my GP1,
One came past me tonight in the outside lane of the A120 ( very cool cars ). I was thinking that I used to think "that is big for a MINI" .... look at the damn things now!

Edited by mnx42 on Monday 19th October 20:26

DC2 Mark

33 posts

143 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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Lack of progress? My relatively cheap c£5K a few months ago, 2005 R53 JCW Cooper S is a right little terrier. It exhibits all the handling characteristics that are highlighted as being questionable by their absence in the latest JCW. Great turn in, and grippy but not at the expense of decent feel and adjustability. The LSD stays much more hooked up with the stability control off. I'm amazed at its cross country pace and involvement. The ride is on the firmer side even on non run flat Pilot Sport 3, but it's perfectly liveable with.

It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.

shoestring7

6,138 posts

247 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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I was going to order a JCW in August after having tried one of the launch cars with an auto 'box.

Luckily I decided to try a Cooper S manual (there were no manual JCWs available). It was a real disappointment; heavily over-servoed brakes made h&t almost impossible at road speeds, the huge programmed-in flywheel effect made standing starts a squirt-pause-squirt-pause experience and the gear change wasn't that special either. Added to the usual lumpen ride, especially lateral ridges, on oversized wheels, and the inevitable numb steering, and it seemed to me a long way from being a car designed by and for enthusiasts.

It was a shame, but then I discovered I could order a new BMW 135 for less money so it was an easy choice.

SS7

blearyeyedboy

6,314 posts

180 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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I saw one in the metal yesterday and I have to say that the photos are kind to it.

That girder through the usual Mini face is like running an open sewer through a National Park. It just shouldn't be there.

Leins

9,480 posts

149 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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mnx42 said:
Leins said:
I find I'm missing in my GP1,
One came past me tonight in the outside lane of the A120 ( very cool cars ). I was thinking that I used to think "that is big for a MINI" .... look at the damn things now!
Agreed, they've almost moved them into a larger class now since the R53. They've lost some of the visual appeal for me, and I have no need for the extra space

UnluckyTimmeh

3,464 posts

214 months

Monday 19th October 2015
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I've got mine now and I've got to say I love it.

Came from a Fiesta ST and I've got to admit as a drivers car I honestly think the JCW is better.

I found the ST very crashy like the suspension was right on the edge of giving up. plus there were a few other things I didn't like.

But yeah, love the mini. Wouldn't go back.

stephen300o

15,464 posts

229 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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"25 thousand about right.."

For a hatchback? On what planet? What sort of dumbells are marching into a showroom and spending all that on these? The worlds gone crazy.

JonoG81

384 posts

106 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Rumblestripe said:
A beautifully designed, gorgeously detailed interior... but man that frontal aspect!

It reminds me of some wart encrusted fish with mouth agape and cold dead eyes staring up to heaven. hurl

That is an insult to the fish!

One of the ugliest cars I have ever clapped eyes on ( front on any way), BMW really fooked up with the new one, the previous version was much better looking

Steven_RW

1,730 posts

203 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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samoht said:
I have another theory. With a torque converter, when you lift off, you don't generally get engine braking; rather the converter allows the engine to go back to idle without much connection to the wheels. With a manual, the engine and wheels are still solidly connected, so you get the immediate effect of engine braking. I reckon it's this engine braking that's making the car tuck in nicely, rather than 15kg here or there (if you put your weekly supermarket shop in the passenger footwell that would have the same effect, right?)
I was also thinking that 15kg is highly unlikely to completely change the handling characteristics of the car... It would have to be taken from a very important place like the weight of the wheels.


Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

247 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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stephen300o said:
"25 thousand about right.." What sort of dumbells are marching into a showroom and spending all that on these? The worlds gone crazy.
They are close relations of those who will chuck £40,000 and more at a 4-pot Evoque. Who knows, they might own one of each!

Baryonyx

18,002 posts

160 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Frimley111R said:
They were probably thinking that most buyers aren't PHers and go for the auto.
Indeed, but surely a DSG would be a better choice then, in keeping with the hot hatch theme?

Gecko1978

9,750 posts

158 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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23k reads a bit like 20k sort of you might push to reach there 28k etc reads like 30k so in essence down the pub you can say I have a mini its a JCW with Chili powder etc and you mate will say nice I have a Focus RS......

when I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.

the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.

sad61t

1,100 posts

211 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Baryonyx said:
Indeed, but surely a DSG would be a better choice then, in keeping with the hot hatch theme?
The MINI slushbox works just fine, better at changing gear than I ever was with the manual and better crawling through town than a DSG.

leglessAlex

5,476 posts

142 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Ozzie Osmond said:
stephen300o said:
"25 thousand about right.." What sort of dumbells are marching into a showroom and spending all that on these? The worlds gone crazy.
They are close relations of those who will chuck £40,000 and more at a 4-pot Evoque. Who knows, they might own one of each!
Didn't the guy actually say that £23,000 is about right? Not £25k.

And I would've thought that IS about right these days, accounting for inflation is that much more than a hot hatch was 20+ years ago? That's an actual question, I don't actually know, but I would guess that the prices aren't too disimmilar.

Leins

9,480 posts

149 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Gecko1978 said:
23k reads a bit like 20k sort of you might push to reach there 28k etc reads like 30k so in essence down the pub you can say I have a mini its a JCW with Chili powder etc and you mate will say nice I have a Focus RS......

when I look at hot hatches I always think how much is a Focus ST. 4 seats (or 5 not sure) sub 7 second 0-60, 150mph top end (neither which really matter), comes with leather air con an toys (if you buy the right model). An can hold family stuff.

the Mini still is a bit of a style over substance car, if you want fast A to B I suspect there are other options out there, if you want practicality (I assume most who buy a hatch have to factor that in) then see the Focus or a golf. if you want to think your cool then mini it is.
Nonsense - this "style over substance" thing is a complete myth about Minis. A Focus ST wouldn't see which way an equivalent JCW went down a back road, and the same for a lot of other even more powerful cars

nikaiyo2

4,756 posts

196 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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Just drove one, I have to say I was HUGELY impressed. My mate has one as his every day car (he also has a Vanquish S and F12) and recons its the dogs bits!

I drove his for 30 minutes and have just spent the last half hour on the mini site lol and will be going into see them at the weekend... Great little cars.

Bhuvsta

234 posts

163 months

Tuesday 20th October 2015
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DC2 Mark said:
Lack of progress? My relatively cheap c£5K a few months ago, 2005 R53 JCW Cooper S is a right little terrier. It exhibits all the handling characteristics that are highlighted as being questionable by their absence in the latest JCW. Great turn in, and grippy but not at the expense of decent feel and adjustability. The LSD stays much more hooked up with the stability control off. I'm amazed at its cross country pace and involvement. The ride is on the firmer side even on non run flat Pilot Sport 3, but it's perfectly liveable with.

It seems they've made a car that looks a lot worse and is less fun to drive than the R53 and R56. No doubt the newer car is a nicer place to sit in, but the older models still have their own (nice) character on the inside.
The R53 was brilliant when I test drove it. However it wasn't practical enough for me so I went for the Type-R. I have also driven a R56 but found them to be not very good. This JCW sounds interesting but I imagine it would be another letdown for me.