RE: BMW Z4 M: PH Buying Guide
Discussion
Someone made the comparison between this and the Jaguar E-type. I view it as more of a 21st-century Triumph GT6, albeit it goes more like an E-type. There's something about it, between the shape, style and hairy-chested ragged-round-the-edges character that reminds me of Canley's finest.
Loved mine (coupe), I never found the ride a problem but the handling was a let down. Only car I ever kept the TC on going round the ring! Brakes were fine too.
Basic semi trailing arm suspension means coilovers can't (or shouldn't) be used unless you're strengthening the rear end with a roll cage or something.
All faults can be excused for the looks of the thing however, in my humble opinion.
Basic semi trailing arm suspension means coilovers can't (or shouldn't) be used unless you're strengthening the rear end with a roll cage or something.
All faults can be excused for the looks of the thing however, in my humble opinion.
I ended up buying a 3.0 Si over the 'M' and ran one for 2 years as a daily.
When I was doing my research I read a number of forum discussions where people suggested if I bought anything less than the M I would be disappointed.
However that wasn't my experience at all. I found the Si to be quick, great fun to drive and pretty frugal. The steering had a lovely weight to it and it had tonnes of grip. For me the auto box with paddles made it the perfect daily driver, that still had appeal on a good back road.
I am sure the M on a good road is more fun as it requires greater concentration and dare I say it, skill, to hustle along quickly. However, the Si is not to be overlooked either.
Whichever you choose, in Coupe form they still turn heads and get people talking. With a private plate on they still look very contemporary in my opinion and much nicer to look at than the newer E89 in my opinion.
When I was doing my research I read a number of forum discussions where people suggested if I bought anything less than the M I would be disappointed.
However that wasn't my experience at all. I found the Si to be quick, great fun to drive and pretty frugal. The steering had a lovely weight to it and it had tonnes of grip. For me the auto box with paddles made it the perfect daily driver, that still had appeal on a good back road.
I am sure the M on a good road is more fun as it requires greater concentration and dare I say it, skill, to hustle along quickly. However, the Si is not to be overlooked either.
Whichever you choose, in Coupe form they still turn heads and get people talking. With a private plate on they still look very contemporary in my opinion and much nicer to look at than the newer E89 in my opinion.
My experience: (e46 M3 with lots of good mods, E92 M3 DCT standard, Z4M some mods)
Z4M Looked better on CSL 19"s with PS2 rubber. Rode better on the 18s.
Rear bush limiting kit by Turners helps any e46 M3 or Z4M back end feel much more planted and is a must do mod.
Interior felt small however once used to it, I drove it home from the N'ring 792miles in one go and was fine due to the excellent seats. Loved the little pad on the transmission tunnel to stop your knee bashing and the elbow rest on both door and in the middle. So well thought out (for my size anyway.)
Never felt as stable as my e46 m3, however it didn't stop me making very fast progress it just meant you were slightly more wired and switched on when doing so. On the factory original tyres at starting pressures of 32psi ish, it became totally dangerous on the N'ring. Lots of tyre pressure lowering so it ran at 30 psi when hot made it safer.
Never felt confident floating the back end around on it, unlike the e46 M3 which I was quite a bit more confident with.
Standard brakes seemed fine for standard use but I upgraded to Ap 6 pots as that is what I was used to in the E46.
Had a chat with Chris Harris at the N'ring about them one time. He said he didn't think it was a patch on the E46. The chasis being nothing like as balanced. Having owned both and driven both (50k in my M3 and had the Z4 at the point of the chat), I felt that the mods I had carried out really helped me enjoy the car and that I definitely didn't sit there hankering for my E46 M3 back at the time.
Lots of fun and the only 2 seater sports car I have and probably will, own.
Agreed re challenging gearbox. You need two throttle stabs each gear change (unless you are going flat out), one to help move it through the gear gate and one to match the revs when u let the clutch out as by that point the revs will have died and the engine slower than roadspeed.
In conclusion: Having gone from involving manual e46 M3 to a DCT V8 M3, the Z4 was everything I missed in the V8. No more playstation generation, remote from the road hyperspace everywhere... instead it was involving and fun and challenging even in traffic due to throttle and gearshift. You KNEW you were driving it. V8 M3 felt like you were floating and flying all at warpseed.
:-)
RW
Z4M Looked better on CSL 19"s with PS2 rubber. Rode better on the 18s.
Rear bush limiting kit by Turners helps any e46 M3 or Z4M back end feel much more planted and is a must do mod.
Interior felt small however once used to it, I drove it home from the N'ring 792miles in one go and was fine due to the excellent seats. Loved the little pad on the transmission tunnel to stop your knee bashing and the elbow rest on both door and in the middle. So well thought out (for my size anyway.)
Never felt as stable as my e46 m3, however it didn't stop me making very fast progress it just meant you were slightly more wired and switched on when doing so. On the factory original tyres at starting pressures of 32psi ish, it became totally dangerous on the N'ring. Lots of tyre pressure lowering so it ran at 30 psi when hot made it safer.
Never felt confident floating the back end around on it, unlike the e46 M3 which I was quite a bit more confident with.
Standard brakes seemed fine for standard use but I upgraded to Ap 6 pots as that is what I was used to in the E46.
Had a chat with Chris Harris at the N'ring about them one time. He said he didn't think it was a patch on the E46. The chasis being nothing like as balanced. Having owned both and driven both (50k in my M3 and had the Z4 at the point of the chat), I felt that the mods I had carried out really helped me enjoy the car and that I definitely didn't sit there hankering for my E46 M3 back at the time.
Lots of fun and the only 2 seater sports car I have and probably will, own.
Agreed re challenging gearbox. You need two throttle stabs each gear change (unless you are going flat out), one to help move it through the gear gate and one to match the revs when u let the clutch out as by that point the revs will have died and the engine slower than roadspeed.
In conclusion: Having gone from involving manual e46 M3 to a DCT V8 M3, the Z4 was everything I missed in the V8. No more playstation generation, remote from the road hyperspace everywhere... instead it was involving and fun and challenging even in traffic due to throttle and gearshift. You KNEW you were driving it. V8 M3 felt like you were floating and flying all at warpseed.
:-)
RW
A car that bridges past and present like no other. Agree with those who cherish the gorgeous shape of the coupe. Unique in our time.
I always wondered about weight (could it be a bit heavy for its size?) and about reliability (eg: a £4500 rebuild at 30K miles and other worrisome comments posted here by owners).
Pereldh said:
Z3 had trailing arms, Z4 had e46 multilink. Either way, coilovers works fine.
Agreed. I ran Intrax coil overs (front n rear) on my e46 for 50,000 miles and didn't have any issues with cracking where the dampers attach to the body or arms. Included track days at the N'ring, Croft and Knockhill.I appreciate the sentiment behind the original statement, however, to date, I didn't see an issue.
SRW
You were right though to say you can't run a true coilover on the rear of a Z4M like many people say you shouldn't with an e46m3. The intrax 1k2 kit for the Z4M is a separate spring damper arrangement like all 'coil over' kits for Z4M and most for e46m3 (kW v3/clubsport, Bilstein etc). The strut towers are not designed for that force. I ran a true coilover rear intrax on the m3 but did have additional strengthening,. much more difficult to achieve in the z4m.
I'd agree with the sentiments that the chassis sometimes is a bit of a pig and it is certainly more difficult to drive fast than the 46 m3, however in a way to me that is half the appeal. It is also ultimately faster than the m3. I had mine on the scales recently and it with the weight of driver and 1/2 tank of fuel came to 1490kg, so similar to a csl.
Also agree that the car looks fantastic on 19" CSLs but you're better off finding some nice looking 18s. I'm not a big fan of the original wheels and they are heavy. These are apex arc 8.
I'd agree with the sentiments that the chassis sometimes is a bit of a pig and it is certainly more difficult to drive fast than the 46 m3, however in a way to me that is half the appeal. It is also ultimately faster than the m3. I had mine on the scales recently and it with the weight of driver and 1/2 tank of fuel came to 1490kg, so similar to a csl.
Also agree that the car looks fantastic on 19" CSLs but you're better off finding some nice looking 18s. I'm not a big fan of the original wheels and they are heavy. These are apex arc 8.
MOTK said:
You were right though to say you can't run a true coilover on the rear of a Z4M like many people say you shouldn't with an e46m3. The intrax 1k2 kit for the Z4M is a separate spring damper arrangement like all 'coil over' kits for Z4M and most for e46m3 (kW v3/clubsport, Bilstein etc). The strut towers are not designed for that force. I ran a true coilover rear intrax on the m3 but did have additional strengthening,. much more difficult to achieve in the z4m.
I'd agree with the sentiments that the chassis sometimes is a bit of a pig and it is certainly more difficult to drive fast than the 46 m3, however in a way to me that is half the appeal. It is also ultimately faster than the m3. I had mine on the scales recently and it with the weight of driver and 1/2 tank of fuel came to 1490kg, so similar to a csl.
Also agree that the car looks fantastic on 19" CSLs but you're better off finding some nice looking 18s. I'm not a big fan of the original wheels and they are heavy. These are apex arc 8.
beautiful; and how appropriate, the settingI'd agree with the sentiments that the chassis sometimes is a bit of a pig and it is certainly more difficult to drive fast than the 46 m3, however in a way to me that is half the appeal. It is also ultimately faster than the m3. I had mine on the scales recently and it with the weight of driver and 1/2 tank of fuel came to 1490kg, so similar to a csl.
Also agree that the car looks fantastic on 19" CSLs but you're better off finding some nice looking 18s. I'm not a big fan of the original wheels and they are heavy. These are apex arc 8.
Pro's:
Looks lovely
Sounds incredible
Bloody quick in a straight line
Cons:
Taking into account all the handling issues and not so great brakes plus the price tag.....a Cayman or Boxster S of the same period are still better to drive and track (albeit slower on the acceleration) straight out of the box....imho.
Still, I understand the appeal.
Looks lovely
Sounds incredible
Bloody quick in a straight line
Cons:
Taking into account all the handling issues and not so great brakes plus the price tag.....a Cayman or Boxster S of the same period are still better to drive and track (albeit slower on the acceleration) straight out of the box....imho.
Still, I understand the appeal.
crispyshark said:
Pro's:
Looks lovely
Sounds incredible
Bloody quick in a straight line
Cons:
Taking into account all the handling issues and not so great brakes plus the price tag.....a Cayman or Boxster S of the same period are still better to drive and track (albeit slower on the acceleration) straight out of the box....imho.
Still, I understand the appeal.
It's just a pity that most Boxster/Cayman lack an LSD. Not really a problem from an outright pace point of view, just more fun with an M diff. We never had a problem with our Boxsters engine but my Z4M engine does give me slightly less paranoia when driven hard. I also don't feel the car has handling issues, it's just a hard ride on the road. On track it makes more sense with decent enough body control as standard. Looks lovely
Sounds incredible
Bloody quick in a straight line
Cons:
Taking into account all the handling issues and not so great brakes plus the price tag.....a Cayman or Boxster S of the same period are still better to drive and track (albeit slower on the acceleration) straight out of the box....imho.
Still, I understand the appeal.
The standard brakes are actually pretty good on track providing you don't expect them to last very long sessions at a time. Go out, warm up, do a few hot laps then a slower lap or two, then on it again, repeat. Some track regulars have added ducting which they report makes a difference. I'll be uprating my pads shortly, but am happy with the standard CSL set up. A novice may be harder on the brakes of course, especially if the safety systems are left on, with the brakes will also be used to control under or oversteer.
I'd added a few comments into the buyers guide, on of which was the 'M Track' coding that can be easily added to the car by those in the know (not me!). This gives you higher limits before the traction or stability systems cut in, ideal for spirited driving in the wet, on road or track. More on this here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am...
Pleasantly supprised to see so much love for the shape. I've been running a 3.0si Coupe as a daily driver for 3 1/2 years, and I still look at it and think 'wow, that's beautiful'. This will become a design classic.
I considered the M, but figured it would have been the wrong choice for cummuting. In the real world the 3 litre is a lovely thing to drive.
I considered the M, but figured it would have been the wrong choice for cummuting. In the real world the 3 litre is a lovely thing to drive.
In not many years time these cars will cost double and be considered a modern classic from a bye-gone era. More so in coupe form.
Just like a TVR Griffith - no one will be bothered about the "harsh ride" or handling foibles by then!
I agree, they're a tricky beast to hustle down a B-road, so man up and learn how to do it! ;-)
I replaced the dampers for Bilstein B6 and run contisport 5s and it's made a huge difference to the ride and handling. It now has immense front end traction and a wonderfully semi-light back end. It also bobs along with a 'reassuring' firmness, having lost all of its skittish nature. Certainly no plans to sell. Possibly ever.
Agreed it's no Cayman, but what is? Apart form a Cayman.
Just like a TVR Griffith - no one will be bothered about the "harsh ride" or handling foibles by then!
I agree, they're a tricky beast to hustle down a B-road, so man up and learn how to do it! ;-)
I replaced the dampers for Bilstein B6 and run contisport 5s and it's made a huge difference to the ride and handling. It now has immense front end traction and a wonderfully semi-light back end. It also bobs along with a 'reassuring' firmness, having lost all of its skittish nature. Certainly no plans to sell. Possibly ever.
Agreed it's no Cayman, but what is? Apart form a Cayman.
My wife bought one a few months ago - she loves it. The ride quality is better than the 350Z it replaced, so I'm not sure what it's being compared to.
Great engine, slightly annoying gearbox when driven gently, but nothing you can't drive around. Seems pretty benign with the electronics left on. Steering wheel like strangling an anaconda. Everything works, nothing has fallen off or feels likely to. I like driving it, when I can prise the bloody keys out of her mitts.
Great engine, slightly annoying gearbox when driven gently, but nothing you can't drive around. Seems pretty benign with the electronics left on. Steering wheel like strangling an anaconda. Everything works, nothing has fallen off or feels likely to. I like driving it, when I can prise the bloody keys out of her mitts.
FlavaDave said:
I replaced the dampers for Bilstein B6 and run contisport 5s and it's made a huge difference to the ride and handling. It now has immense front end traction and a wonderfully semi-light back end. It also bobs along with a 'reassuring' firmness, having lost all of its skittish nature. Certainly no plans to sell. Possibly ever.
Good to know, looking to purchase a B6 kit myself, can get them for £480 online, but reviews are thin on the ground. Are you using OEM springs or Eibachs.
G
Removing CDV, fitting ZHP gear knob and a clutch stop resolves any gear change issues, but I've never had the difficult 1 to 2nd issue. I'm more than happy with mine and that's coming from a S2000 which is the ultimate benchmark.
CSL spec alignment really sharpens the car up, standard geometry isn't great for "fast driving", far too much toe.
You need to be prepared to tinker to get the most from this car. So many small and cheap things you can that help transform the car, those I mentioned in the last post, plus pedal covers to aid heel and toe, new RTA bushes etc.
CSL spec alignment really sharpens the car up, standard geometry isn't great for "fast driving", far too much toe.
You need to be prepared to tinker to get the most from this car. So many small and cheap things you can that help transform the car, those I mentioned in the last post, plus pedal covers to aid heel and toe, new RTA bushes etc.
Edited by scz4 on Monday 2nd November 19:31
Fishy Dave said:
I'd added a few comments into the buyers guide, on of which was the 'M Track' coding that can be easily added to the car by those in the know (not me!). This gives you higher limits before the traction or stability systems cut in, ideal for spirited driving in the wet, on road or track. More on this here: http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&am...
Interesting, I must have missed that thread Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff