RE: Lotus Elise 20th Anniversary vs. S1 Elise
Discussion
Scuffers said:
If McLaren can go from zero to some 1,800 cars a year (2015) with a £170+k car, what's Lotus's excuse?
They removed the funding and sacked the only chap in recent times capable of pushing through such a flamboyant plan. He may have had some questionable marketing techniques to go with his magnificent hair, but Bahar was thinking along the right lines as far as following the money to look for profits. We'd be on the cusp of a mid-life refresh of the Paris Esprit by now.Why does every single Lotus thread end up talking about the state of the company rather than celebrating what are quite simply stunning driver's cars?
For £50-60k there is not much out there other than an Exige which can be used as a sole car for the guy who wants to do trackdays, use it every day and want as pure a driver's car as possible. I don't see the "£50k is too much" thing. If anything it is a bargain IMO.
For £50-60k there is not much out there other than an Exige which can be used as a sole car for the guy who wants to do trackdays, use it every day and want as pure a driver's car as possible. I don't see the "£50k is too much" thing. If anything it is a bargain IMO.
Agreed, however as a sole car that can do it all, the Exige is pretty hard to beat. A trackcar like a Caterham is all well and good but they are a pain in the **** for most of the year.
As far as new cars go, I can't think of many combinations that £50k would get me which would drive as well as an Exige.
As far as new cars go, I can't think of many combinations that £50k would get me which would drive as well as an Exige.
CABC said:
i think we can all agree that in 30 years time when many new PHers haven't enjoyed a flat 6. (esp an air cooled one), those of who have will reminisce about true greatness.
They have their place but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the Elise would be a better car with a flat-six than an inline four. Yes it would sound better and have a lower centre of gravity but it'd also be at least a foot longer and 200kg heavier not to mention £10k more expensive; and even then they'd probably need to compromise the rear suspension design to fit everything in. You'd just end up with a Lotus Boxster except it wouldn't be as good as the Porsche because it'd have a tenth of the development budget. I'm very lucky that I've spent a decent amount of time driving both air-cooled and water-cooled 911s but for me the Elise is simply a better car and in large part that's because of its engine, not despite it.
Edited by kambites on Friday 4th December 19:43
kambites said:
They have their place but I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that the Elise would be a better car with a flat-six than an inline four. Yes it would sound better and have a lower centre of gravity but it'd also be at least a foot longer and a hundred kg heavier; and even then they'd probably need to compromise the rear suspension design to fit everything in. You'd just end up with a Lotus Boxster.
to be clear, i'm happy with a 4 for a light, compact sports car. More characterful engines fit with other cars in my fantasy garage.one car cannot do everything. The Elise is superlative at what is does.
Amongst other engine formats, i'd love a flat 6 in the garage. Problem is that given they're no longer to be produced i probably wouldn't be as happy thrashing around in it as i would an Elise.
SidewaysSi said:
Maybe but that's secondhand which is not a fair playing field. If we only think of new cars, I can't think of much.
One of Lotus' problems is that the sort of people who tend to buy Elises are often the sort of people who don't care about whether a car is new or not. That's a good part of the reason the Elise's residuals are so strong. Scuffers said:
SidewaysSi said:
Maybe but that's secondhand which is not a fair playing field. If we only think of new cars, I can't think of much.
Fair comment, but for a trackday slag, would you want something brand new?For one car that can do it all for £50k, there is little on the market. Even looking secondhand, you are left with old 911s etc. which are arguably not as good or exciting as the Lotus.
And for £30-35k for an Elise, there is even less choice.
Does anyone buy an Elise as primarily a track car? Especially a modern one? For me they're simply too heavy, too slow, too soft and too... mid-engined. It's the perfect daily driver for me but there's no way I'd take one over a Caterham or similar as a track car.
All of the Elise owners I know do at least 90% of their driving on the road.
All of the Elise owners I know do at least 90% of their driving on the road.
kambites said:
Does anyone buy an Elise as primarily a track car? Especially a modern one? For me they're simply too heavy, too slow, too soft and too... mid-engined. It's the perfect daily driver for me but there's no way I'd take one over a Caterham or similar as a track car.
All of the Elise owners I know do at least 90% of their driving on the road.
Agree - I don't use it as solely a track car but something that can take in a few trackdays a year as well as thrill on a Sunday drive all year round, they are great. A Caterham is usually hailed as being brilliant track cars (which they are) but to use day in, day out, in all weathers, they are pretty crap.All of the Elise owners I know do at least 90% of their driving on the road.
I don't think an Elise is particularly slow on track TBH and I quite like that is has its engine in the middle as it is a bit more of a challenge. A few tweaks and the Elise is 95% as exciting as a Seven but 150% more practical.
SidewaysSi said:
Depends on the user, for a complete track slag then probably not (but many people will happily spend £30k on a new Caterham). But if I wanted something special to drive and look at and did a few trackdays a year, it would be ideal.
For one car that can do it all for £50k, there is little on the market. Even looking secondhand, you are left with old 911s etc. which are arguably not as good or exciting as the Lotus.
And for £30-35k for an Elise, there is even less choice.
Isnt an elise 1.6 a smidge under £30k?For one car that can do it all for £50k, there is little on the market. Even looking secondhand, you are left with old 911s etc. which are arguably not as good or exciting as the Lotus.
And for £30-35k for an Elise, there is even less choice.
Horrid hateful car, wish I never bought my S2, had it six years now.
I just need to keep it a few more years yet to make sure I'm doing the right thing scrapping it.
Too heavy (Compared to the S1)
Too slow (Compared to the Exige V6)
Too ugly
Too unreliable
Too heavy on fuel (Compared to driving it like Mrs Jones from no.32)
Just a bag of s
t!
I just need to keep it a few more years yet to make sure I'm doing the right thing scrapping it.
Too heavy (Compared to the S1)
Too slow (Compared to the Exige V6)
Too ugly
Too unreliable
Too heavy on fuel (Compared to driving it like Mrs Jones from no.32)
Just a bag of s
t!
Bebee said:
Horrid hateful car, wish I never bought my S2, had it six years now.
I just need to keep it a few more years yet to make sure I'm doing the right thing scrapping it.
Too heavy (Compared to the S1)
Too slow (Compared to the Exige V6)
Too ugly
Too unreliable
Too heavy on fuel (Compared to driving it like Mrs Jones from no.32)
Just a bag of st!
I blame the salesman.I just need to keep it a few more years yet to make sure I'm doing the right thing scrapping it.
Too heavy (Compared to the S1)
Too slow (Compared to the Exige V6)
Too ugly
Too unreliable
Too heavy on fuel (Compared to driving it like Mrs Jones from no.32)
Just a bag of s
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