RE: Lotus Exige Sport 350: Driven
Discussion
Rob9000 said:
Why doesn't Mr Gales try Honda ? right away the new Civic R engine in an S2 length car would be great!
I read somewhere (which might or might not have been accurate) that Lotus talked to Honda (about the K20) before going with the Toyota 4-pot and were basically told "you can buy our crate engines but we're not doing a deal with you" which would have pushed the average price per car up by ~£5k with no guarantee of continued supply. If Lotus go turbocharged, I'll certainly never buy another... but it's probably inevitable.
suffolk009 said:
I wonder what it would cost Lotus to have Ricardo develop an I4-turbo engine. 2litres and 330bhp should be quite possible.
Lotus have one of the most experienced, most successful engine design units in the world - Lotus engineering has had a significant input into some of the most successful mainstream engines ever produced as well as a number of high-powered performance car engines; they don't need to go to an external company, the question is whether they should have a bespoke engine at all.To my mind, the answer to that question is emphatically "no". If they want a high powered turbocharged four-pot there's a million options out there that they couldn't hope to even match with the budget Lotus cars have let alone beat.
Seriously, has anyone ever taken a Lotus out for a drive, then come back to the dealership and said,
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Ozzie Osmond said:
Seriously, has anyone ever taken a Lotus out for a drive, then come back to the dealership and said,
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
absolutely not, in fact as some have mentioned it's quite reassuring really."I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Getting people to put Lotus on the shortlist and go for a test drive in the first place is the issue.
There are people spending money on German cars who could be tempted but they're not even looking.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Seriously, has anyone ever taken a Lotus out for a drive, then come back to the dealership and said,
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
My thoughts exactly. When I went to test drive the LFA it's what put me off. (Tongue very much in cheek)"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Ozzie Osmond said:
Seriously, has anyone ever taken a Lotus out for a drive, then come back to the dealership and said,
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Is that actually relevant though?"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Surely the actual issue is that not enough people are even getting to the free test drive stage if it is believed that once you try, you will buy?
So why are majority of people not even bothering to test drive a car that in driving terms is about the best in its class?
Could it possibly be partly due to image by any chance?
DonkeyApple said:
Could it possibly be partly due to image by any chance?
of course.Most German choices aren't "enthusiast informed".
But then to appeal to a wider audience interior quality has to improve at Lotus.
That's happening. And with then next refresh maybe some people will want something different from the neighbours.
CABC said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Seriously, has anyone ever taken a Lotus out for a drive, then come back to the dealership and said,
"I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
absolutely not, in fact as some have mentioned it's quite reassuring really."I love everything about the car - the looks, the ride, the packaging, the performance, the interior - and was about to sign on the line, but then I opened the back and saw a Toyota engine so I've changed my mind?".
Getting people to put Lotus on the shortlist and go for a test drive in the first place is the issue.
There are people spending money on German cars who could be tempted but they're not even looking.
To alter the things that create the compromises will diminish the DNA that Lotus drivers love. Compromised, less hard core but allegedly still driver orientated cars already exist: MX5, Z4, SLK, TT etc. and many of these are similarly priced, if not more expensive. The Boxster and Caymans are also great purchases but they too are a different market place regardless of the comparisons.
the market is one big venn diagram, and Lotus/Porsche/Audi/Mazda all overlap. How much they overlap depends on perception, marketing and a little reality. Lotus have put themselves out towards niche without a more mainstream offering. Porsche and Ferrari were there once but they broadened their offerings. Quite successfully. Chapman himself certainly did this, ALL road cars were there to make cash for racing.
CABC said:
the market is one big venn diagram, and Lotus/Porsche/Audi/Mazda all overlap. How much they overlap depends on perception, marketing and a little reality. Lotus have put themselves out towards niche without a more mainstream offering. Porsche and Ferrari were there once but they broadened their offerings. Quite successfully. Chapman himself certainly did this, ALL road cars were there to make cash for racing.
Quite possibly on the market. The biggest difference will be the SUV; that has to be mainstream.Looks like all the consultancy work pays for cars now they are not racing.
kambites said:
Lotus have one of the most experienced, most successful engine design units in the world - Lotus engineering has had a significant input into some of the most successful mainstream engines ever produced as well as a number of high-powered performance car engines; they don't need to go to an external company, the question is whether they should have a bespoke engine at all.
To my mind, the answer to that question is emphatically "no". If they want a high powered turbocharged four-pot there's a million options out there that they couldn't hope to even match with the budget Lotus cars have let alone beat.
My suggestion was slightly tongue-in-cheek. I'm trying to make the point that if Lotus wanted a bespoke engine they could get one; designed by them or others. I don't think it would make terribly much difference to the end car, sales figures, or performance. McLaren could not have got away with a crate V8.To my mind, the answer to that question is emphatically "no". If they want a high powered turbocharged four-pot there's a million options out there that they couldn't hope to even match with the budget Lotus cars have let alone beat.
Broadly speaking, I think, we agree.
bencollins said:
DonkeyApple said:
The core trouble with V6s is that they are usually built to emulate a big, lazyish V8 but cheaper.
New Chinese stock market crash imminent on news that V6's are shyte.Serious Q : Are these PH loonies paid by Haymarket to increase traffic?
zebra said:
Most people do not want the compromises that Lotus ownership brings so they are a niche product, more often than not a toy.
To alter the things that create the compromises will diminish the DNA that Lotus drivers love. Compromised, less hard core but allegedly still driver orientated cars already exist: MX5, Z4, SLK, TT etc. and many of these are similarly priced, if not more expensive. The Boxster and Caymans are also great purchases but they too are a different market place regardless of the comparisons.
Plenty of people who look at Lotus purchase look at Boxster and Cayman, so personally I think they are in the same market place just Lotus has less marketing exposureTo alter the things that create the compromises will diminish the DNA that Lotus drivers love. Compromised, less hard core but allegedly still driver orientated cars already exist: MX5, Z4, SLK, TT etc. and many of these are similarly priced, if not more expensive. The Boxster and Caymans are also great purchases but they too are a different market place regardless of the comparisons.
blueg33 said:
zebra said:
Most people do not want the compromises that Lotus ownership brings so they are a niche product, more often than not a toy.
To alter the things that create the compromises will diminish the DNA that Lotus drivers love. Compromised, less hard core but allegedly still driver orientated cars already exist: MX5, Z4, SLK, TT etc. and many of these are similarly priced, if not more expensive. The Boxster and Caymans are also great purchases but they too are a different market place regardless of the comparisons.
Plenty of people who look at Lotus purchase look at Boxster and Cayman, so personally I think they are in the same market place just Lotus has less marketing exposureTo alter the things that create the compromises will diminish the DNA that Lotus drivers love. Compromised, less hard core but allegedly still driver orientated cars already exist: MX5, Z4, SLK, TT etc. and many of these are similarly priced, if not more expensive. The Boxster and Caymans are also great purchases but they too are a different market place regardless of the comparisons.
That aside, I am not convinced the Elise market overlaps with Caymans/Boxters. The Exige does really overlap with them either but people compare them as they are similarly priced.
The Evora is probably closer to a Cayman but gets compared to the 911.
People who really want a Porsche will 99% of the time buy a Porsche. Very little Lotus can do will ever change that.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
you can never win this game. best not to play it.911 - small sausage. w***er
Cayman - couldn't afford real one
Lotus - what? little plastic car
MX5 - nuf said.
RR - drug dealer, selfish
Suburu
Most things interesting - mid-life crisis
etc
you can never win.
As a business you need to attract an audience who will buy.
As a driver you need to ignore others
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Similar as you can see....http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
bencollins said:
DonkeyApple said:
The core trouble with V6s is that they are usually built to emulate a big, lazyish V8 but cheaper.
New Chinese stock market crash imminent on news that V6's are shyte.It's really always been the case that they are the accountants choice not the engineers.
DonkeyApple said:
bencollins said:
DonkeyApple said:
The core trouble with V6s is that they are usually built to emulate a big, lazyish V8 but cheaper.
New Chinese stock market crash imminent on news that V6's are shyte.It's really always been the case that they are the accountants choice not the engineers.
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