RE: Lotus looks ahead
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
...So banging out a load of cheap tat to Asian buyers and hoping their Western market doesn't pay too much attention to it is probably the best way to shore up revenues well enough to be able to invest in new products.
That's also how I see It. The Lotus SUV is a necessary evil to keep the company afloat. Hopefully no one in Europe or America will notice, because it could damage the brand image. SpudLink said:
The Lotus SUV is a necessary evil to keep the company afloat. Hopefully no one in Europe or America will notice, because it could damage the brand image.
Who is sitting at home this Christmas thinking, "What I really want is a Lotus SUV"? "Ah, but Porsche started making SUVs and have been very successful at it". No, they started re-engineering Volkswagen SUVs and achieved massive economies of scale by doing it in bed with one of the world's biggest car makers. Even the new Porsche Macan is a heavily re-engineered Audi (Q5 IIRC).
IMO it would be insane for Lotus to do an SUV - but their track record of lunacy suggests they probably might!
Front wheel drive sportscar? Mid-engined 2+2? Expensive Elise coupe? (Europa)
kambites said:
I don't think the roof is a structural element of the Evora. The convertible will be as rigid as the coupe.
In that case id still prefer the removable roof piece like that of an Esprit over an all out 'drop top' design. But it will be interesting for sure to see what a convertible Evora will look like, especially next to a Carrera drop topOzzie Osmond said:
SpudLink said:
The Lotus SUV is a necessary evil to keep the company afloat. Hopefully no one in Europe or America will notice, because it could damage the brand image.
Who is sitting at home this Christmas thinking, "What I really want is a Lotus SUV"? "Ah, but Porsche started making SUVs and have been very successful at it". No, they started re-engineering Volkswagen SUVs and achieved massive economies of scale by doing it in bed with one of the world's biggest car makers. Even the new Porsche Macan is a heavily re-engineered Audi (Q5 IIRC).
IMO it would be insane for Lotus to do an SUV - but their track record of lunacy suggests they probably might!
Front wheel drive sportscar? Mid-engined 2+2? Expensive Elise coupe? (Europa)
If Lotus' plan is to raise some money up to release a niche model on the low end of the price scale and under the radar of the greater U.S. & U.K. market, then i say ditch the SUV idea and again I say, take a page from Bahar's book and produce the Lotus City Car. Its certainly a WAY more rational decision with room for acceptable transition to other markets because of the over crowding of the streets in the target market. I mean come on!!! You want to release an SUV (i don't care if its the lightest SUV built under the add lightness mantra), no body in the Asian Market is going to invest in an SUV other than their boat load of already existing 20 year old toyota 4 runners and influx of land rovers lol I'm only half kidding you know?
But joking aside from here, pushing hard into a market that could truly benefit from such a vehicle would in fact be a Lotus made city car. The success of it will be heard far and away, reverberating right through to Europe. Such a vehicle will benefit from Lotus' ethos, "Add lightness. .." FAR moreso than a g'damn SUV.
The Lotus city car will be such a success that it will win awards throughout and because of its affordable price tag, well built fit and finish with a recognized reliability after owners begin to report how pleased they are with the little Lotus' ability to tackle heavily congested streets of the city, sit in hour long traffic jams on the daily and never a hiccup. Comfortable, reliable, inexpensive, economical, and British origin will propel Lotus to another stage altogether!!!
kambites said:
It's not a crazy idea, but neither is it a particularly good one.
The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
I've notice Kambites that you and i very often have very similar opinions when it comes to Lotus as i agree with you regarding Lotus being a leader in EV technology for their cars. I always held the belief that if there is indeed a car company out there best suited for such a leap it is Lotus without a doubt. All the elements along with their long standing philosophy are clearly there for their advantage. If started now i believe Lotus can be a leader on this tech and get the spotlight, experience and profits before anyone else. They have a great chance at being recognized again worldwide for their engineering expertise. The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 15th December 13:43
I truly hope they do go down that route.
Going back to my comment about our similar views regarding Lotus, i can tell by your posts that you, like myself as well, truly care for the Lotus name and their overall wellbeing.
ESOG said:
kambites said:
It's not a crazy idea, but neither is it a particularly good one.
The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
I've notice Kambites that you and i very often have very similar opinions when it comes to Lotus as i agree with you regarding Lotus being a leader in EV technology for their cars. I always held the belief that if there is indeed a car company out there best suited for such a leap it is Lotus without a doubt. All the elements along with their long standing philosophy are clearly there for their advantage. If started now i believe Lotus can be a leader on this tech and get the spotlight, experience and profits before anyone else. They have a great chance at being recognized again worldwide for their engineering expertise. The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 15th December 13:43
I truly hope they do go down that route.
Going back to my comment about our similar views regarding Lotus, i can tell by your posts that you, like myself as well, truly care for the Lotus name and their overall wellbeing.
High tech hybrid with turbo heat recovery would be very Lotus
PW said:
If Lotus started now, they'd be 10 years behind Tesla.
Pretty amazing if you look at what each company has achieved in the intervening years. One has gone from nothing and had a massive impact on the development of road car technology, engineering and infrastructure, and revolutionised the marketing and perception of electric vehicles on a global scale. The other has got some new headlights.
Lotus Engineering have been at the forefront of EV consultancy for some years now. Pretty amazing if you look at what each company has achieved in the intervening years. One has gone from nothing and had a massive impact on the development of road car technology, engineering and infrastructure, and revolutionised the marketing and perception of electric vehicles on a global scale. The other has got some new headlights.
ESOG said:
kambites said:
I don't think the roof is a structural element of the Evora. The convertible will be as rigid as the coupe.
In that case id still prefer the removable roof piece like that of an Esprit over an all out 'drop top' design. But it will be interesting for sure to see what a convertible Evora will look like, especially next to a Carrera drop topEuropa1 said:
ESOG said:
kambites said:
I don't think the roof is a structural element of the Evora. The convertible will be as rigid as the coupe.
In that case id still prefer the removable roof piece like that of an Esprit over an all out 'drop top' design. But it will be interesting for sure to see what a convertible Evora will look like, especially next to a Carrera drop topArticle said:
As previously discussed, it'll be a 'Targa' style roof with two removable carbon fibre panels weighing just 3kg each. They'll be quick to remove and easily stored behind the front seats
I would love an EV Elise with updated styling. I imagine getting the weight balance of the batteries would be a challenge to keep the driving dynamics but not insurmountable. There was a thread on SELOC where someone had built one.
I have an S2 daily driver (you really don't need to be in Cirque du soleil to get into it!) but the thought of the EV torque in such a light car...
I have an S2 daily driver (you really don't need to be in Cirque du soleil to get into it!) but the thought of the EV torque in such a light car...
Gary C said:
ESOG said:
kambites said:
It's not a crazy idea, but neither is it a particularly good one.
The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
I've notice Kambites that you and i very often have very similar opinions when it comes to Lotus as i agree with you regarding Lotus being a leader in EV technology for their cars. I always held the belief that if there is indeed a car company out there best suited for such a leap it is Lotus without a doubt. All the elements along with their long standing philosophy are clearly there for their advantage. If started now i believe Lotus can be a leader on this tech and get the spotlight, experience and profits before anyone else. They have a great chance at being recognized again worldwide for their engineering expertise. The 911 works but it took Porsche a very long time to get it to where it is now and it's still vastly inferior to the Cayman/Boxster in terms of chassis balance and even the Evora at least matches it despite having the engine weight 6 inches higher up. Then there's the question of where they get an engine and gearbox from.
ETA: If anything I think Lotus now need to be gambling on the future; keep milking the current cars and use the time to skip the turbocharged everything era and go straight to a VVA based electric drive range of vehicles. Probably an Exige/Elise replacement which is pure EV and an Evora replacement with an optional range extender.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 15th December 13:43
I truly hope they do go down that route.
Going back to my comment about our similar views regarding Lotus, i can tell by your posts that you, like myself as well, truly care for the Lotus name and their overall wellbeing.
High tech hybrid with turbo heat recovery would be very Lotus
Make cars lighter and fit smaller engines. It's the whole Eco movement and Lotus have been the brand specialists for arguably 60+ years. And that is long before you get to the EV movement which ver clearly should be Lotus' bag.
Yet what signs are there that Lotus are embracing this advantage? All signs point to them doing the exact opposite and adding weight and bigger engines to be able to attract the vital top trump buyers.
There is a clear argument for Lotus to have built a high performance but Eco focused town car, something that trumps the Arbarth 500 or cooper at all levels. A modern sunbeam etc.
But I think this just highlights how trapped Lotus are by their financial circumstances and that they are actually doing a very good job currently with what they've got.
suffolk009 said:
^^^^ Surely high-performance...town-car is oxymoronic?
It's relative, isn't it. As in the high performance element being relative to the concept of a town car. Rather than a town car with the performance of a P1. Almost all manufacturers of town cars offer a high performance version.
MikeGalos said:
Sorry. It's a horrible idea. The 911 now sort of handles after 50 years of reengineering work and 50 years of annual "This year's 911 finally doesn't oversteer as horribly as they all have in the past (including the one we said didn't last year)" articles.
Throwing the biggest mass in the design out at the end of the assembly beyond the wheels is a detriment it's taken Porsche 50 years to engineer around and you'll notice that NONE of their cars designed since the early 1960s use that design pattern - not production cars nor race cars. Even Porsche's engineers knows it's an idiotic design choice. They just know how to sell it. The ONLY model that has it is the nostalgia based 911 and even it got it to save engineering costs as an updated 356. And even back then in the early 1960s Porsche's serious cars were starting to be mid-engined.
If you want Lotus handling you need to actually care about engineering and that means you do NOT go with a bad design just because somebody in marketing has convinced people that it's a good idea.
This is news to me. The 911 handles as well as just about anything that I have driven this side of an Elise.Throwing the biggest mass in the design out at the end of the assembly beyond the wheels is a detriment it's taken Porsche 50 years to engineer around and you'll notice that NONE of their cars designed since the early 1960s use that design pattern - not production cars nor race cars. Even Porsche's engineers knows it's an idiotic design choice. They just know how to sell it. The ONLY model that has it is the nostalgia based 911 and even it got it to save engineering costs as an updated 356. And even back then in the early 1960s Porsche's serious cars were starting to be mid-engined.
If you want Lotus handling you need to actually care about engineering and that means you do NOT go with a bad design just because somebody in marketing has convinced people that it's a good idea.
suffolk009 said:
^^^ Sorry, I wasn't trying to be smart.
Are you suggesting something like a roadster the size maybe a Ka, with fabulous performance upto a top speed of about, say, 90mph. Blistering 0-30 times, a tight turning circle, and low emissions? Sounds good to me.
Just a super light weight little hatchback (practicality), with a lively little engine that will potter at huge mpg round town and fly like a go kart. Are you suggesting something like a roadster the size maybe a Ka, with fabulous performance upto a top speed of about, say, 90mph. Blistering 0-30 times, a tight turning circle, and low emissions? Sounds good to me.
I just would have thought that the ultimate bloke's Eco town car would be the exact thing Lotus could deliver more than anyone else.
ORD said:
I agree. I have thought for a while that an electric city car would be really good fun if done properly!
Or just a .5 litre petrol with stonking turbos. Either way, Lotus could blow the main manufacturers away in this field with not just their brand and ethos but expertise. No one has been making light cars with tiny engines that out perform their peers better than they have. Who wouldn't like the idea of something like an Arbarth 500 but with added lightness.
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