RE: Has turbocharging ruined the 911
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree with both of you. I think PH'ers forget that Porsche is in the car business to make money, therefore they will appeal to what the customer wants regardless of who that customer is. Humans will always default to the path of least resistance so yes, the cars will inevitably become easier to drive. If enthusiasts don't like the new 911 then they can buy the older ones...
I think there are multiple factors at work here. Firstly, Porsche have widened their scope so their everyday models are not designed as pure sports cars, moreso a step up from the usual BMW or Mercedes businessman's express. Note that the FT and the like now classify them as a 'luxury car manufacturer', not a 'sports car manufacturer'. The second thing is exactly what you've stated above: most PHers seem to forget that even focused marques like Lotus need to stay profitable by appealing to what people want, rather than necessarily what a core set of enthusiasts want. Lotus resist this more than others, but certainly for a large company like Porsche, to stay afloat they have to appeal to the masses, especially if they want to fund niche models like the GT3.MR Dan, I feel with this matter that speed is not everything and yes this car will now be faster but it will never purr as previous models also Turbo very expensive will these prices must adjust for dreamers who want one, for me there is no difference in the old V new cars but the power output. The buyers of 991 Turbo will feel angrified , their auto will drop lots in value.
MrTickle said:
This will appeal to the bulk of 'new 911 buyers'
Luckily Porsche still have an eye on their old die-hard customer base who have a bit of cash to splash too....
http://www.total911.com/porsche-911-r-to-be-unveil...
Rumour I heard from a dealer was that they are expecting 6 (SIX) of these for the UK. Not sure how accurate that is but I am sure that even if it is ten times that number there is still little to no chance of getting one unless you are a serial GT car buyer.Luckily Porsche still have an eye on their old die-hard customer base who have a bit of cash to splash too....
http://www.total911.com/porsche-911-r-to-be-unveil...
cars can be analogous with phones.
Most people aspire to Apple. It's slick, sexy and does the job - easily.
A minority prefer something not only cheaper, but more configurable. A fully programmable Linux box, that would be a geeky nightmare for most of us.
For phones, i'm Apple.
For cars, i'm in a geeky minority.
Most people aspire to Apple. It's slick, sexy and does the job - easily.
A minority prefer something not only cheaper, but more configurable. A fully programmable Linux box, that would be a geeky nightmare for most of us.
For phones, i'm Apple.
For cars, i'm in a geeky minority.
Yes, yes, yes. This Turbo discussion is all very well, with valid points made on both sides.
What we really need to know Dan, is where are you up to with the Porsche model making, and has your mini mechanicing ruined the image of Porsche?
(Life long worshipper of the 911 shape, there have been a few wobbles on the way but generally the most awesome vehicle ever. In my view, it is like a fine wine, whilst other upstart brasher marquee are much more alco-pop. Absolute class)
What we really need to know Dan, is where are you up to with the Porsche model making, and has your mini mechanicing ruined the image of Porsche?
(Life long worshipper of the 911 shape, there have been a few wobbles on the way but generally the most awesome vehicle ever. In my view, it is like a fine wine, whilst other upstart brasher marquee are much more alco-pop. Absolute class)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
On the other hand, there is profit in selling stripped out, manual versions of cars to those who are happy to pay a stiff premium to either drive for the sake of it or, crucially, have the appearance of someone who does. They have form here. I humbly propose the margin on such cars will be too hard for them to resist. I'm not talking about the GT stuff. I know they are readying a 'basic' 911. I expect they will knock up a 'drivers' version of the 4 cylinder Boxster and Cayman also. Porsche are skilled marketeers. Once people come round to the carefully marketed kudos of a 'drivers' version of a car, once they are able to gain social prestige from it, they'll all pile in. And we will benefit. I can't help but think that a Boxster/Cayman in this vein would be much better than any other car Porsche make. They really are cynical - and there is a marketing open goal here.aeropilot said:
I'd bet within the next 5 years we'll see no manufacturer selling a n/a car of any description.
Mazda? They seem to be coping with emissions just fine with n/a engines. But then the next set of regulations will probably change all that.Going back to Porsche, isn't the Cayenne their best seller, followed by the Macan? Stands to reason that Porsche are positioning the 911 as a second car for this kind of client, in which case I'm sure they've done a fabulous job. I've never got the knack of heal and toeing because of my legs so the tech here is good news for me. I see turbo charging and huge mid-range thrust as great for the road, it's practical power, so that's good too. Character? Meddling with what was good in the past? That's history isn't it?
I'm not worried about this at all. The one attribute that Porsche has in spades is longevity. Aren't they widely acclaimed as having the highest percentage of cars produced still registered or even on the road? So research the 911 family and go for the one you're looking for. I've seen loads of reports and even TV documentaries on support for older cars not seen in other marques. Doesn't a car gain character over time anyway?
I'll probably never own a 911. I'm much more the aspirational Cayman driver, currently well catered for by BMW. But I applaud Porsche for adapting to their market, and their success shines through. This new 991 V2 might be for some milk in a fruity tea, just plain wrong, but I think they've broadened their reach, whilst previous models are still very well supported for those that love the heritage.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
These complaints are getting silly. We've got the new Spyder, and yes in Sport Plus mode it rev matches for you. But there's a simple fix, should you wish - actually heel and toe yourself and it overrides the system completely! No button pushing required, problem solved.PunterCam said:
In photos it's a good looking car. In the the flesh the 991 seems massive though, and looks a bit silly on the road. In reality it's "only" 8" longer than a 964, and maybe a couple wider, but there's no real delicacy to it anymore.. It dwarfs a Focus, and I don't find that attractive.
The turbo engine wouldn't bother me as the n/a engines have been dull for years now. The 3.8 991 I drove sounded offensive, in a bad way. A crap sound made loud. From what I've heard the new turbo sounds more like the 3.2s, which is a lovely sound. I dare say the sports exhaust ruins it (Porsche never get this right) but hey, as long as it's louder right... The stuff written about the manual box rev matching would entirely put me off though - at that point you know an idiot has been involved in the design of your car, and I hate idiots and refuse to tolerate them. A line of code and a touch-screen menu? Nah, f
k em. Genius.
There's no polite way to put it. That car has a fat arse.The turbo engine wouldn't bother me as the n/a engines have been dull for years now. The 3.8 991 I drove sounded offensive, in a bad way. A crap sound made loud. From what I've heard the new turbo sounds more like the 3.2s, which is a lovely sound. I dare say the sports exhaust ruins it (Porsche never get this right) but hey, as long as it's louder right... The stuff written about the manual box rev matching would entirely put me off though - at that point you know an idiot has been involved in the design of your car, and I hate idiots and refuse to tolerate them. A line of code and a touch-screen menu? Nah, f
k em. Genius. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff