RE: Has turbocharging ruined the 911
Discussion
anonymous said:
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Well to me, it did not feel like a traditional turbo motor and nothing like the turbo cars I have owned or driven previously. But I am not a race car driver or a journalist so I have no qualification to back up my experience. Have you driven one yet and what were your thoughts on it?anonymous said:
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So are you saying the turbo hasn't moved on one jot since it's inception? I'm not sure what a 'traditional' turbo motor is, but as pointed out it was first applied to a 911 road car back in circa 1975. Has the driving experience not moved on since then? I'd be surprised if that was the case.
People have said that about every new generation of turbocharged engines. Lag is banished, you can hardly tell, blah blah. I found one contemporary review saying the same thing about our very obviously turbocharged Saab - in which, while you may no longer have needed to drive around the turbocharged characteristics of the engine, you were bloody well aware of it! I think perhaps some people aren't bothered by it and some people honestly don't feel it. So I'll believe it when I drive it.
anonymous said:
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You don't have to agree, it's called an opinion. A very clear idea, really, please expand on what exactly Porsche will deliver as you're clearly more informed than most? You make assumptions, lots it seems about many things. I wouldn't have spent time with the cars I have if didn't value interesting dynamics. The case of the original Boxster for me was some dissapointment, having spent lots of time in cars which rev far beyond the M96 I found the original car a bit bland. The luddites moaned when the last air cooled flat six was made, fast forward two decades and it seems Porsche are not doing so badly. Sometumes people just like to moan, which without any actual experience is as I said very odd.Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 13th January 18:31
otolith said:
You would disagree with the review, then, that "there is a little mush in the response to the throttle that wasn't there before"?
Who, me? Yes, I did not notice any more mush than previously. Have you driven a 997 GTS and come off a roundabout in 5th, 6th or 7th and pressed the accelerator.........nothing. I realise that is more an issue of the PDK gearbox selecting the highest gear possible to help with fuel economy, manually down change a few gears on approach and all is fine. In that scenario I would say you would experience less mush and more go with the 991.2.tuffer said:
The thing is, a lot of people are complaining about the change to Turbo units from NA but how many of those people have actually driven the car? I have and I can tell you it is a very different experience from your traditional turbo motor. I could not detect any lag and the engine revved very freely with no lack of noise or power, yes it may have more mid range torque but I find that to be no bad thing when combined with a 7 speed PDK box. When driving in normal mode you often find yourself exiting a roundabout or slow corner in 7th gear and you find yourself lacking in grunt until you change down several gears. With the turbo motor it is not such an issue. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't tend to drive around in my 911 in max attack mode 100% of the time. That is the beauty of the car, it a usable every day performance car, I even occasionally use mine for runs to the tip......just because 
that's perfectly fine, and the car works for you.What many here are saying is not that technology is bad, it's just the direction of development is.... a little sad.
The old 911 was a sports car that was mostly about being driven and could also do long trips. But it was an involving sports car, not one that you would "exit a roundabout in 7th" in. So i guess the older ones on here are lamenting the passing of driver's cars.
The old 911 if made with today's tech would be phenomenal - stiffer chassis, even lighter with new materials and methods, more power (just from progress, not turbo or large capacity), sublime suspension, reliable....etc. Instead it has gone on another path. That shouldn't be too contentious?
The new 911s are supremely capable but have left the 'sports car' segment. So, some of us need to look elsewhere.
Elsewhere can include very high tech offerings too. It's a little pathetic when others posting have said "just go and drive the old one's then".
The MX5 has gone back to it's roots for example. Latest tech has enabled them to add safety, comfort and gizmos yet still be same weight as 25 years ago.
GT4 sounds very interesting to me.... but of course that's a halo car that's sold out.
tuffer said:
otolith said:
You would disagree with the review, then, that "there is a little mush in the response to the throttle that wasn't there before"?
Who, me? Yes, I did not notice any more mush than previously. Have you driven a 997 GTS and come off a roundabout in 5th, 6th or 7th and pressed the accelerator.........nothing. I realise that is more an issue of the PDK gearbox selecting the highest gear possible to help with fuel economy, manually down change a few gears on approach and all is fine. In that scenario I would say you would experience less mush and more go with the 991.2.otolith said:
I have driven a 997 GTS, but never tried driving it in the wrong gear. That's not really a throttle response issue, though, that's either a picked an automatic gearbox issue or a can't drive a manual properly issue. I don't really care about that, it's the throttle response in an appropriate gear I would be interested in and which I think the author has picked up on.
Try one, make your own mind up. I am not saying you will like it, just don't take other people's word for it. anonymous said:
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It's just not. You may not like, or become attached to a car following a drive but, you'll be informed. Any opinion is reasonable, from experience. My point is this. The original 2.5 Boxster was a great chassis with a lukewarm engine. The 200 hp was fairly blunt and many cars of the era could reel them in. The new engine will have to appeal to existing owners therefore it is a fairly safe bet that it will have class matching power and throttle response. Do you honestly believe that they'll put the original 930 unit in there? No, it will no doubt be variable vane or similar with as much innovation as possible to create the feel of a NA engine whilst meeting the emissions etc that have to be adhered to. It's impossible to compare two different decades of car technology and to write it off when you speak so highly of an existing product is odd. Do you not want it to be any good, could you like it if if was I wonder?
nickfrog said:
T-bagger said:
Another dull thread about how new cars are too ugly/heavy/turbocharged/safe/expensive/advanced etc.
Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
I have to agree - it's getting a bit boring. You really wonder why some people actually hate anything new...Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
Dan Trent said:
Dafuq said:
Yes, yes, yes. This Turbo discussion is all very well, with valid points made on both sides.
What we really need to know Dan, is where are you up to with the Porsche model making, and has your mini mechanicing ruined the image of Porsche?
(Life long worshipper of the 911 shape, there have been a few wobbles on the way but generally the most awesome vehicle ever. In my view, it is like a fine wine, whilst other upstart brasher marquee are much more alco-pop. Absolute class)
Guess what is on the desk right now! My efforts on the wheelarches possibly has too. What we really need to know Dan, is where are you up to with the Porsche model making, and has your mini mechanicing ruined the image of Porsche?
(Life long worshipper of the 911 shape, there have been a few wobbles on the way but generally the most awesome vehicle ever. In my view, it is like a fine wine, whilst other upstart brasher marquee are much more alco-pop. Absolute class)
Dan
anonymous said:
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Obvious, really? Well as informative as it has been, talking to a man who hasn't experienced an engine, driving a car that hasn't yet been produced, i'll look forward to making my own mind up when its released. Enjoy wallowing in your superiority and try and be realistic with your 'facts'.
tali1 said:
nickfrog said:
T-bagger said:
Another dull thread about how new cars are too ugly/heavy/turbocharged/safe/expensive/advanced etc.
Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
I have to agree - it's getting a bit boring. You really wonder why some people actually hate anything new...Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
It's bloody obvious that it's not being made to feel NA. Look at the torque figures!
Cmoose sometimes irritates me by getting annoyed too easily, but I have a lot of sympathy with him here. Blithering idiocy to say that the 3.0 is anything like an NA engine. It's torque delivery has more in common with a turbo diesel.
Best post so far, though, goes to the chap saying that the 997 has bad throttle response in 7th gear on exiting a roundabout. It's always helpful when someone makes very clear that they have no idea what everyone else is talking about.
Cmoose sometimes irritates me by getting annoyed too easily, but I have a lot of sympathy with him here. Blithering idiocy to say that the 3.0 is anything like an NA engine. It's torque delivery has more in common with a turbo diesel.
Best post so far, though, goes to the chap saying that the 997 has bad throttle response in 7th gear on exiting a roundabout. It's always helpful when someone makes very clear that they have no idea what everyone else is talking about.
ORD said:
It's bloody obvious that it's not being made to feel NA. Look at the torque figures!
Cmoose sometimes irritates me by getting annoyed too easily, but I have a lot of sympathy with him here. Blithering idiocy to say that the 3.0 is anything like an NA engine. It's torque delivery has more in common with a turbo diesel.
Best post so far, though, goes to the chap saying that the 997 has bad throttle response in 7th gear on exiting a roundabout. It's always helpful when someone makes very clear that they have no idea what everyone else is talking about.
Fair enough. I was side tracked and talking about the new 4 cylinder engines which are going in the Boxster etc. Four cylinder and turbocharged, the horror.Cmoose sometimes irritates me by getting annoyed too easily, but I have a lot of sympathy with him here. Blithering idiocy to say that the 3.0 is anything like an NA engine. It's torque delivery has more in common with a turbo diesel.
Best post so far, though, goes to the chap saying that the 997 has bad throttle response in 7th gear on exiting a roundabout. It's always helpful when someone makes very clear that they have no idea what everyone else is talking about.
Anyway, no, turbocharging hasn't ruined the 911.
tuffer said:
Try one, make your own mind up. I am not saying you will like it, just don't take other people's word for it.
I'm curious, but to be honest the 997 had already become too much of a GT for my tastes and I understand that the 991 is more so. They're impressive, but not my cup of tea - and in any case it will be some time before they depreciate to a level I'd countenance spending on a car.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff