RE: BMW M4: PH Fleet
Discussion
t...RossP said:
Nice write up Dan. I *mostly* agree, except the bit about the manual gearbox. I'll let you off though as I'm guessing you haven't driven a manual M4. I could be persuaded to let you have a go in mine if you ask really nicely...
Oh, and I meant to reply sooner but I *have* driven a manual back on the launch. My heart wanted it to be 'the one' as I instinctively always prefer manuals but I think in this case the engine, power delivery and everything else just feels so much more suited to the DCT it's hard to ignore. I felt the same about the E92 V8 M3 and, yes, drove both manual and DCT in that too. Saying that I'd heartily applaud anyone who does go for a manual. And would happily take you up if that's an offer. I'll see if I've got another set of spare rears in the depths of the cellar......
DMC2 and D200 make good points also. But of the current crop of direct rivals - and most of the much loved normally aspirated cars that have had to go turbo - the M3/M4 is I think the most exciting/challenging/rewarding. Interesting to see this apparently bears out with others who've spent extended time with them but interested to hear from anyone else with comparable experience.
Dan
PunterCam said:
You criticise the car in all the same ways the reviews did, but shrug it off as if it doesn't matter.. Crap steering, crap engine noise (stand outside to listen?! Why on earth would I stand outside?), crap damping... These aren't little things.
We all warm to cars we drive for a while, but that doesn't make them great. I'm sure it'd be a nice car to own, but it's never in a million years a great M car.
Yep agree with this, it's a strange article.We all warm to cars we drive for a while, but that doesn't make them great. I'm sure it'd be a nice car to own, but it's never in a million years a great M car.
daz05 said:
PunterCam said:
You criticise the car in all the same ways the reviews did, but shrug it off as if it doesn't matter.. Crap steering, crap engine noise (stand outside to listen?! Why on earth would I stand outside?), crap damping... These aren't little things.
We all warm to cars we drive for a while, but that doesn't make them great. I'm sure it'd be a nice car to own, but it's never in a million years a great M car.
Yep agree with this, it's a strange article.We all warm to cars we drive for a while, but that doesn't make them great. I'm sure it'd be a nice car to own, but it's never in a million years a great M car.
With the M4 it's kind of the other way around. On first drive the points I mentioned as criticisms - the steering, the damping, the boosty power delivery - are the first things you notice and therefore dominate your impression of the car, which I think explains why it has had such a mixed reception among both buyers and reviewers. As time goes by though you learn to put these things into context, work with or around them or simply appreciate the other talents the car has you hadn't necessarily noticed initially and accept them as a compromise in the overall package. Because, let's face it, no car is perfect out of the box.
In the case of the M4 it's a complicated car with a multitude of driving modes and a drastically different character according to how you drive it, what settings you've chosen, etc... It takes time to dial in and find the configuration that best works for you and once you do it becomes ever more rewarding. In drug terms I guess you're talking instant hit versus slow release.
The criticisms remain valid and the drive in the Schnitzer car with the passive dampers revealed what a difference there can be with some changes. But, overall, the M4 is simply an *exciting* car to drive and live with. And there aren't enough of those these days.
Hope that helps!
Dan
I felt differently, in comparison to its predecessors the sheer grunt of the car gives that dazzling first impression and the more you drove it the more you came to realise the flaws, your smile from the grunt subsides and you are left with a car that doesn't excite, steer, sound or ride as well as you would like it to.
On M cars of old the build up was more subtle but the cars rewarded more and more as you pushed on.
On M cars of old the build up was more subtle but the cars rewarded more and more as you pushed on.
Entirely fair enough, each to their own and you make some fair points, especially about older M cars making you build up to it. The same excitement is there at the very top end of the M4's performance envelope. But you will be travelling very, very fast when you get there and - frankly - opportunities to enjoy that are extremely limited on the road.
Cheers!
Dan
Cheers!
Dan
Did you plug the active sound back in before returning it? It flagged a fault on mine when I took mine to the dealers recently.
Dan - have you driven a September 2015 onwards car. There is much talk on here (M Power forum) and on m3cutters of revised suspension on the later cars which addresses the criticisms of the earlier cars.
Dan - have you driven a September 2015 onwards car. There is much talk on here (M Power forum) and on m3cutters of revised suspension on the later cars which addresses the criticisms of the earlier cars.
Edited by RossP on Saturday 6th February 16:08
I did plug the Active Sound Design module back into the amp before it went back, yes. No electronic yelps as a result but I'll ask BMW if anything came up when they were going through it. Interesting though.
And not driven a later car as described. I'll find out the official line on any suspension mods and book one in. I think Competition Pack cars are coming on fleet soon but I think they have different suspension settings again.
Cheers,
Dan
And not driven a later car as described. I'll find out the official line on any suspension mods and book one in. I think Competition Pack cars are coming on fleet soon but I think they have different suspension settings again.
Cheers,
Dan
2 questions (well, sort of three actually)
1) Overall MPG over the test period? These powerful modern cars can inhabit both ends of the economy spectrum, miserly sipping fuel if you baby around in them, then binge drinking, imbibing vast vats of the stuff when you actually use the power on offer! But, on, average, what does this return (for ref, my 335d is sat on 38mpg average over 40K odd miles)
2) On the road, it sounds like they can be a bit lairy, but in reality, can you have fun with it ? I mean, i love the way my 335d is so quiet and boring looking that you can actually power slide around a wet motorway roundabout at 2am in the morning, right past a traffic officer in a marked car (that you'd somehow not noticed parked up in a layby) and they don't even look up (don't ask me how i know this........ ;-)
and
3) WHY DON'T THEY MAKE AN M3 TOURER!!!! That would be my perfect car ;-)
finally, 10/10 for the poker face when sliding round Blyton, not even a cheeky smile! Remind me not to ever actually play you at poker........
1) Overall MPG over the test period? These powerful modern cars can inhabit both ends of the economy spectrum, miserly sipping fuel if you baby around in them, then binge drinking, imbibing vast vats of the stuff when you actually use the power on offer! But, on, average, what does this return (for ref, my 335d is sat on 38mpg average over 40K odd miles)
2) On the road, it sounds like they can be a bit lairy, but in reality, can you have fun with it ? I mean, i love the way my 335d is so quiet and boring looking that you can actually power slide around a wet motorway roundabout at 2am in the morning, right past a traffic officer in a marked car (that you'd somehow not noticed parked up in a layby) and they don't even look up (don't ask me how i know this........ ;-)
and
3) WHY DON'T THEY MAKE AN M3 TOURER!!!! That would be my perfect car ;-)
finally, 10/10 for the poker face when sliding round Blyton, not even a cheeky smile! Remind me not to ever actually play you at poker........
BMW can't win. They can't knock out a stripped out lightweight car like the original M because the people buying the cars just don't want that.
Every new M3/4 has a load of people saying the last car was better, and boy did they slag the E9x off in droves. Everyone hated the 'bloated' car with the V8 that supposedly didn't belong in an M car and now everyone is getting teary eyed over that.
I've test driven and been a passenger in an M4 a number of times and it is quite the animal. Very different to what came before it but the same could be said of every other M3/4 before it. You get a lively car with bags of torque that doesnt need to be ragged to get the 'fun' but now that is what people criticise it over, in that it's just too much of a handful on anything more than dry roads in summer.
When everything is 4WD or electric (or both) we will all probably lament the loss of the last M car that made you treat it with respect, or else.
Every new M3/4 has a load of people saying the last car was better, and boy did they slag the E9x off in droves. Everyone hated the 'bloated' car with the V8 that supposedly didn't belong in an M car and now everyone is getting teary eyed over that.
I've test driven and been a passenger in an M4 a number of times and it is quite the animal. Very different to what came before it but the same could be said of every other M3/4 before it. You get a lively car with bags of torque that doesnt need to be ragged to get the 'fun' but now that is what people criticise it over, in that it's just too much of a handful on anything more than dry roads in summer.
When everything is 4WD or electric (or both) we will all probably lament the loss of the last M car that made you treat it with respect, or else.
adma23 said:
I have an M4 as my daily and had an E92 M3 before it and I compare them in this article: http://carmoods.com/index.php/2015/11/29/f82-bmw-m...
I think your analysis of the M4 is literally spot-on especially after having lived with the car as my daily for a few months as you have done.
I'm not really a fan of car reviews where the journalist has driven the car once. You need to live with a car for a few days or weeks to be able to properly review it.
The M4 is by no means an easy car to drive. It struggles for traction in most gears and on most surface conditions and the immense torque which comes on so early is a handful. But when you do get it right it is so rewarding. and on the right surfaces, in the dry it is so exhilaratingly quick.
I have a Lotus Exige S2 too and admittedly the M4 feels digital compared to the S2 analogue experience. But there are so many more circumstances where the M4 is useable compared to the limited circumstances where you can use the Exige. This is why the M4 is a 'great car'. It is an amazing blend of class, power, usability, sheer speed and versatility which very few other cars can offer irrespective of price.
Just read your comparison in the article you linked mate, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Nice one ! I think your analysis of the M4 is literally spot-on especially after having lived with the car as my daily for a few months as you have done.
I'm not really a fan of car reviews where the journalist has driven the car once. You need to live with a car for a few days or weeks to be able to properly review it.
The M4 is by no means an easy car to drive. It struggles for traction in most gears and on most surface conditions and the immense torque which comes on so early is a handful. But when you do get it right it is so rewarding. and on the right surfaces, in the dry it is so exhilaratingly quick.
I have a Lotus Exige S2 too and admittedly the M4 feels digital compared to the S2 analogue experience. But there are so many more circumstances where the M4 is useable compared to the limited circumstances where you can use the Exige. This is why the M4 is a 'great car'. It is an amazing blend of class, power, usability, sheer speed and versatility which very few other cars can offer irrespective of price.
Max_Torque said:
2 questions (well, sort of three actually)
1) Overall MPG over the test period?
2) On the road, it sounds like they can be a bit lairy, but in reality, can you have fun with it ?
3) WHY DON'T THEY MAKE AN M3 TOURER!!!! That would be my perfect car ;-)
finally, 10/10 for the poker face when sliding round Blyton, not even a cheeky smile! Remind me not to ever actually play you at poker........
1) I've been recording this 'properly' brim to brim for the reports in Autocar and as of Jan 5 (I've got some totting up to do) it was 27.44mpg so that was at about 10K into the loan. Mix of driving but a typical motorway schlep would be high 20s/low 30s, mid 20s with some spirited backroads and/or city driving thrown in and ... 8mpg on track!1) Overall MPG over the test period?
2) On the road, it sounds like they can be a bit lairy, but in reality, can you have fun with it ?
3) WHY DON'T THEY MAKE AN M3 TOURER!!!! That would be my perfect car ;-)
finally, 10/10 for the poker face when sliding round Blyton, not even a cheeky smile! Remind me not to ever actually play you at poker........
2) It is and can be but so long as you navigate that initial torque spike without a massive tank slapper
it's super easy to modulate the slide anywhere from a lovely neutral four-wheel drift to armfuls of lock according to space/denial/etc... MDM will let you have enough to be going on with too and lets you hold it for a while without scooping you up. Long enough to get into trouble if you're not on top of it. 3) We asked them on the launch, they rolled their eyes and said 'last time we did with the M5 we sold 11,000 saloons and 1,000 estates - never again'*
And thanks on the poker face, was just concentrating. I did have a little chuckle to myself at the 'meant to turn the wipers on, honest' collection mid-way through though.
Cheers,
Dan
- Have the exact numbers somewhere but it was in this ballpark
Déjà vu — BMW releases a new M3, people hate it, the "previous" model becomes the best car ever until 2 years later when suddenly the new M3 becomes the best car ever.
Repeat ad infinitum.
You can practically count the days until people realise that this is the last 6 cylinder, RWD, non-hybrid M3 and suddenly the tone will change.
Such a lovely six cylinder soundtrack! Emotional, involving driving experience! Great steering feel, uncorrupted from AWD torque steer! So light and nimble because it has no batteries onboard. One of BMW's all time greats and a future classic!
Repeat ad infinitum.
You can practically count the days until people realise that this is the last 6 cylinder, RWD, non-hybrid M3 and suddenly the tone will change.
Such a lovely six cylinder soundtrack! Emotional, involving driving experience! Great steering feel, uncorrupted from AWD torque steer! So light and nimble because it has no batteries onboard. One of BMW's all time greats and a future classic!
brid said:
BMW can't win. They can't knock out a stripped out lightweight car like the original M because the people buying the cars just don't want that.
Every new M3/4 has a load of people saying the last car was better, and boy did they slag the E9x off in droves. Everyone hated the 'bloated' car with the V8 that supposedly didn't belong in an M car and now everyone is getting teary eyed over that.
I've test driven and been a passenger in an M4 a number of times and it is quite the animal. Very different to what came before it but the same could be said of every other M3/4 before it. You get a lively car with bags of torque that doesnt need to be ragged to get the 'fun' but now that is what people criticise it over, in that it's just too much of a handful on anything more than dry roads in summer.
When everything is 4WD or electric (or both) we will all probably lament the loss of the last M car that made you treat it with respect, or else.
I've been reading car reviews ever since the M3 was first brought out by BMW. The only one I can't remember very much criticism about was the E46 M3 - maybe because it was fairly similar to the E36 M3 ( big high revving straight 6 ) - so not much of a sea change from the preceding versionEvery new M3/4 has a load of people saying the last car was better, and boy did they slag the E9x off in droves. Everyone hated the 'bloated' car with the V8 that supposedly didn't belong in an M car and now everyone is getting teary eyed over that.
I've test driven and been a passenger in an M4 a number of times and it is quite the animal. Very different to what came before it but the same could be said of every other M3/4 before it. You get a lively car with bags of torque that doesnt need to be ragged to get the 'fun' but now that is what people criticise it over, in that it's just too much of a handful on anything more than dry roads in summer.
When everything is 4WD or electric (or both) we will all probably lament the loss of the last M car that made you treat it with respect, or else.
People seemed shocked when they put a 4-pot in the original when the top of the range non-M got a bigger 6.
I think it's not so much that "they can't win"..... It's "they can't win with everyone" and their fan base changes with every iteration
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