Am I the only one that doesn't get interest in hot hatches?
Discussion
Joratk said:
It's not about new vs used, it's about driving enjoyment and excitement at a certain price point!
Even if we ignore the obvious issue of practicallity etc, you're talking about price point to buy.Yes for £30k you can get a Golf GTI or a used Porsche. Do you think the two cars have comparable running costs?
For day to day driving in all conditions performing everyday chores, I prefer my Golf R to the 911 C2 S I owned.
Similarly, for fun driving on public roads, I prefer my Golf R to the 911 C2 S.
If I was inclined to go to a Track day, I think then I would prefer the 911 as it is a more focussed sports car, no question.
Overall then, I like my 'hot hatch'. I would rather have it than the 335i I owned in every respect.
Similarly, for fun driving on public roads, I prefer my Golf R to the 911 C2 S.
If I was inclined to go to a Track day, I think then I would prefer the 911 as it is a more focussed sports car, no question.
Overall then, I like my 'hot hatch'. I would rather have it than the 335i I owned in every respect.
OP, have you driven many hot hatches?
For me, the difference between cars I enjoy, and cars I don't enjoy isn't as simple as how quick they cover ground. It's how they go about doing it. I've had a couple of hot hatches (Renaultsports) and have absolutely loved them. Right now I have a BMW 135i which is in many respects a vastly "better" car, but to drive is as dull as ditchwater compared to my R26 (and especially the R26.R of course!)
For me, the difference between cars I enjoy, and cars I don't enjoy isn't as simple as how quick they cover ground. It's how they go about doing it. I've had a couple of hot hatches (Renaultsports) and have absolutely loved them. Right now I have a BMW 135i which is in many respects a vastly "better" car, but to drive is as dull as ditchwater compared to my R26 (and especially the R26.R of course!)
RobM77 said:
xjay1337 said:
framerateuk said:
Joratk said:
It applies to all hot hatches really - they are basically just the same as their less sporty counterpart, a Fiesta ST is still just a Ford Fiesta, a Leon Cupra is still just a Seat Leon. Go get a TT or something...
Also, this just makes you sound like a total badge snob. Enjoy your TT 
I wonder if he knows a Seat Leon is an Audi TT under neath.
TT hardly being the pinnacle of driving pleasure either.
Fiesta ST, is a wonderful car, based on a normal fiesta...
Aside from a purpose built sports car, being what... like a Caterham?
Especially when the OP in this case suggested an Audi TT be a sports car. When the original Mk1 TT was half Golf Mk4, arguably the worst handling Golf, and the Mk2 is based on the Golf..Leon...Octavia... etc. :-)
I fully understand the TT would be better to drive than the Seat Leon but only because of chassis stiffness. They all come with the same engines aside from the TTRS which again let's face it, is lovely but hardly a thoroughbred.
Devil2575 said:
Even if we ignore the obvious issue of practicallity etc, you're talking about price point to buy.
Yes for £30k you can get a Golf GTI or a used Porsche. Do you think the two cars have comparable running costs?
no - taken over the course of many years a 911 may well end up being cheaper than a GTiYes for £30k you can get a Golf GTI or a used Porsche. Do you think the two cars have comparable running costs?
RobM77 said:
In theory you're correct, but all that means is that the pure bred sports car has more of an opportunity to drive better, not that it actually will. Whether it does drive better is down to the engineering of the car.
What I think is ironic is that the manufacturers have worked hard to produce some quote impressive performance in both speed and handling out of 'standard' platforms in an attempt to offer the best of both worlds. Everyone moans about refinement and economy yet apparently they really want suspension that is rock hard until warp, steering without assistance and brakes/gearboxes etc which only function when they're hot. I can see the novelty of a sports car wearing a little thin 
The general public wants a sports car which does everything on their personal terms, it doesn't exist. Why do we have to compare something like a hatchback to a Boxster, it is totally irrelevant.
Joratk said:
I just can't get turned on by any form of hot hatch at all. I find myself thinking "that's nice, but at £30k there's so much else I could buy". Like why would I waste £30k on a Golf GTI when I could buy a used Boxster/911 (or thousands of other more exciting cars) for less and keep some money in the bank for running costs? Or even buy a 2.0TSI Golf and get 99% of the experience.
I've never seen the appeal of them, even when I was an age when I should have. Like you say, the price of a new Golf GTi (for example) is so eye watering these days you just think of all the far more exciting things you could buy used, for the same or less, and not be hit with a ton of new car depreciation while also feel more special than someone who's just driving a 'tickled' shopping car.
I definitely see the appeal in them. People may require practicality and want something reasonably fast, but are limited to a single parking space. I find the current prices a bit ridiculous, but then they're also ridiculous for things like M3s, C63s and the other fast saloons, which really are just the next stage of hot hatch, i.e. a fast practical car.
My housemate perfectly described the hot hatch appeal while in my Mini Cooper S last week. He said he loves the idea of a small car trying really hard to impress. The noise and eagerness of a hot hatch being driven hard can feel more rewarding than something much bigger/faster/more expensive going just as quickly but barely trying.
Sports/supercars are supposed to have big wheels and brakes, loud exhausts, low suspension etc etc. They are meant to look dramatic. But when you see a humble hatchback (Mini, Clio, Fiesta, Focus...) with a more aggressive stance, sportier seats, Alcantara trim, red calipers, popping exhaust - all from the factory I mean, not a Halfords special - then you know this is a car which can't wait to impress you without being intimidating.
Sports/supercars are supposed to have big wheels and brakes, loud exhausts, low suspension etc etc. They are meant to look dramatic. But when you see a humble hatchback (Mini, Clio, Fiesta, Focus...) with a more aggressive stance, sportier seats, Alcantara trim, red calipers, popping exhaust - all from the factory I mean, not a Halfords special - then you know this is a car which can't wait to impress you without being intimidating.
I think hot hatches are great. They serve a purpose for someone who wants something practical that can also mix it with more sports orientated machine. I enjoyed my FN2 a lot in the year or so that I had it, and have enjoyed other hot hatches that I've owned.
Now though, they don't really do it for me. I personally feel that most of them feel far too ordinary in most of the driving that I do. For what these things cost to run, I ended up wanting something that feels special every time I drive it, and not have to drive like a lunatic to feel it. That means something low slung, rear wheel drive and with 6 or more cylinders, and most hot hatches cannot offer that. If I'm going to put up with < 25 MPG fuel economy, expensive road tax, insurance and running costs, it better damn well justify it to me every day! This for me is where the modern hot hatch has lost its original point for me. Most of the good ones now are just as expensive to run as much more exotic/esoteric cars, yet unfortunately, don't feel like they are giving you anything extra in normal A-B driving.
Now though, they don't really do it for me. I personally feel that most of them feel far too ordinary in most of the driving that I do. For what these things cost to run, I ended up wanting something that feels special every time I drive it, and not have to drive like a lunatic to feel it. That means something low slung, rear wheel drive and with 6 or more cylinders, and most hot hatches cannot offer that. If I'm going to put up with < 25 MPG fuel economy, expensive road tax, insurance and running costs, it better damn well justify it to me every day! This for me is where the modern hot hatch has lost its original point for me. Most of the good ones now are just as expensive to run as much more exotic/esoteric cars, yet unfortunately, don't feel like they are giving you anything extra in normal A-B driving.
irocfan said:
Speed addicted said:
I have no real interest in hot hatches even though I know I would probably enjoy driving them.
I get that they're fast and practical while also costing sane amounts to run, they just don't do anything for me.
I suspect that a well driven luke-warm hatch could possibly hand me my arse whilst driving my Mustang and as for a properly sorted HH the possibility becomes a likelihood would be even greater - all whilst being more economical, practical and (quite possibly) comfortable. And yet I still can't get excited by themI get that they're fast and practical while also costing sane amounts to run, they just don't do anything for me.
I would probably enjoy hot hatches if I drove them but I like big powerful cars that feel effortless. I have bikes for the manic stuff so thrashy cars just seem like hard work for less reward.
If it came down to buying something new for around £30k I'd be in the line for the new Mustang without considering the Focus RS or any Renault. I know they're very good but they hold no interest for me.
I like my hot hatch. I've no clue why. I just do. I couldn't justify a decision anymore plainly.
I'm not limited by family, fuel costs, tax, whatever to a certain extent. I could by an Elise or something. Why don't I? I don't want too. I enjoy my hot hatch. It delivers an engaging driving experience, irrelevant of super minis or supercars performance that shadow it or not.
When did people start buyings cars by compairing them against irrelevant competitors?
Though I have to agree this decades hatches are fat and ugly truck looking things
I'm not limited by family, fuel costs, tax, whatever to a certain extent. I could by an Elise or something. Why don't I? I don't want too. I enjoy my hot hatch. It delivers an engaging driving experience, irrelevant of super minis or supercars performance that shadow it or not.
When did people start buyings cars by compairing them against irrelevant competitors?
Though I have to agree this decades hatches are fat and ugly truck looking things
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