RE: BMW M2: Review

[HighwayStar]

kambites said:

As I understand it this architecturally is far more similar to the normal 2-series than the 1M was to the normal mk1 1-series so I doubt they have any particular limits on the number they could produce if they wanted to?

It fairly much follows the same format as the 1M, M3/M4 suspension etc... The Leipzig Plant where it is built is running at near full capacity churning out up to 740 vehicles of BMW 1 series, BMW 2 series, BMW 2 Series fun bus and electric vehicles. There isn't much scoop to ramp up production of the M2. And note, the M3/M4 isn't built at Leipzig so there's more to working the M2 into the production line than simply ramping things up.

[kambites]

HighwayStar said:

kambites said:

As I understand it this architecturally is far more similar to the normal 2-series than the 1M was to the normal mk1 1-series so I doubt they have any particular limits on the number they could produce if they wanted to?

It fairly much follows the same format as the 1M, M3/M4 suspension etc... The Leipzig Plant where it is built is running at near full capacity churning out up to 740 vehicles of BMW 1 series, BMW 2 series, BMW 2 Series fun bus and electric vehicles. There isn't much scoop to ramp up production of the M2. And note, the M3/M4 isn't built at Leipzig so there's more to working the M2 into the production line than simply ramping things up.

Yeah, my point was that BMW would probably rather be producing M2s than 220ds because the margins will be much higher.

[aeropilot]

kambites said:

Yeah, my point was that BMW would probably rather be producing M2s than 220ds because the margins will be much higher.

No, they wouldn't.....they are a mass volume car manufacturer these days.

[kambites]

aeropilot said:

kambites said:

Yeah, my point was that BMW would probably rather be producing M2s than 220ds because the margins will be much higher.

No, they wouldn't.....they are a mass volume car manufacturer these days.

Are you saying that a mass volume manufacturer wouldn't, given the choice, prefer to sell their higher margin products than their lower margin products?

[Jordan210]

giger said:

I think the residuals will be strong for a long time. My local dealer is now quoting a 2 year lead time for anyone who hasn't ordered yet. Whilst this isn't a ltd ed model, the annual production is limited. I ordered mine yesterday and I have a 13 month wait.

I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.

PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).

You mean a finance figure like this ?

[AOK]

Jordan210 said:

You mean a finance figure like this ?

£17k in 4 years? Whilst nothing can be guaranteed, people will probably have equity in these if supply doesn't open up.

[kambites]

AOK said:

£17k in 4 years? Whilst nothing can be guaranteed, people will probably have equity in these if supply doesn't open up.

Certainly implies whoever sets the finance figures is expecting supply to be reasonable in the medium-term.

[HighwayStar]

aeropilot said:

kambites said:

Yeah, my point was that BMW would probably rather be producing M2s than 220ds because the margins will be much higher.

No, they wouldn't.....they are a mass volume car manufacturer these days.

If there was the demand like there is for the bread and butter stuff then yes, the margins are bound to be higher with the economies of scale etc but as we know the real demand isn't there.

BMW have to be as mass manufacturer now, with VW and their economies of scales they can't afford to stay small. Hence the appearance of fwd, fun busses and more SUVs. Shame BMW haven't gone for it and built a proper supercar although there are rumours of something special for their 100yr anniversary this year.

[kambites]

Even going back to building a decent sports car would be a start. The current Z4 really doesn't count. Hopefully the rumoured Z2 or whatever it ends up being called will be a return to form.

[aeropilot]

kambites said:

aeropilot said:

kambites said:

Yeah, my point was that BMW would probably rather be producing M2s than 220ds because the margins will be much higher.

No, they wouldn't.....they are a mass volume car manufacturer these days.

Are you saying that a mass volume manufacturer wouldn't, given the choice, prefer to sell their higher margin products than their lower margin products?

They'll prefer to sell what earns the most in total....and that means 20 x times the amount of 120d's at a lower margin than they can sell M2's at a higher margin.

I've just been having a phone conversation with my dealer and he offered me a M2 build slot....for mid 2017 delivery at the earliest.

[kambites]

aeropilot said:

They'll prefer to sell what earns the most in total....and that means 20 x times the amount of 120d's at a lower margin than they can sell M2's at a higher margin.

Of course, but we're talking about the limits of supply here, not demand. Unless you think each M2 will take take 20 times as much factory space/time to build as a 220d? Given the choice of building 20 M2s or 20 220ds on the same production line, the M2s are going to earn them more profit.

If they're limiting M2 production it's for marketing reasons, not engineering/production ones. Of course there's nothing wrong with that if it's what they think will make them most money in the long run. Unless of course there are limits to the automation they can achieve for the M2 compared to the 220d.

Edited by kambites on Friday 19th February 10:57

[mikearwas]

Jordan210 said:

You mean a finance figure like this ?

With the current deals on the M5 it works out at only 40 quid cheaper. Think I'd rather the M2 though.

[giger]

msport123 said:

You ordered your yesterday (congrats!) and the lead time has now gone from 13 months to 24? Sounds like salesmans pitter patter to me.

Anyway - congrats on ordering what looks like a fabulous car!

Sorry, I meant my local dealer quoted 2018 delivery as they have taken so many orders, so I ordered from a dealer in the next town who were quoting early 2017

[-Z-]

mikearwas said:

With the current deals on the M5 it works out at only 40 quid cheaper. Think I'd rather the M2 though.

Thats assuming its worth only £17k after 4 years. Given demand, might be worth a chunk more?

Will be interesting to see how it's depreciation figures track the M4. Restricted production sure, but I can't see a situation where it's more valuable than the equivalent M4. Unless people really value a slightly rarer car.

[kambites]

-Z- said:

I can't see a situation where it's more valuable than the equivalent M4. Unless people really value a slightly rarer car.

Given that all the reviews seem to be saying it's a significantly better car than the M4, why shouldn't it be worth more?

[aeropilot]

kambites said:

Unless of course there are limits to the automation they can achieve for the M2 compared to the 220d.

Correct.

Only way would be to move M2 production to one of the dedicated ///M plants at another site (if they had spare capacity, which I assume they don't have, hence also why there is no Individual paint/interior options available for the M2 as Leipzig can't accommodate this)

[giger]

Jordan210 said:

You mean a finance figure like this ?

Yes but you cannot get PCP on the M2 yet. What you have found is system generated figures on the generic BMW finance calculator. If you buy a car they will inform you that they are not valid yet for the M2. I bought one, I was told no finance figures yet at this stage. What you have found is for illustration only and can't be relied upon.

[-Z-]

kambites said:

Given that all the reviews seem to be saying it's a significantly better car than the M4, why shouldn't it be worth more?

BMW has a track record of improving current models. Given that the M2 seems to be effectively the same car as the M4 minus a shortened wheelbase and less power, it may be that the M4 is merely a calibration/facelift away from reasserting it's place.

I.e. that same process that happened to the e92 M3, intial underwhelming performances giving way to the the new opinion that it was an all time great.

[cerb4.5lee]

-Z- said:

I.e. that same process that happened to the e92 M3, intial underwhelming performances giving way to the the new opinion that it was an all time great.

I am not sure many would class the E92 M3 as an all time great to be fair, the E46 M3 was recognised as being a nice sweet spot but the E92 M3 took the M3 in the direction of a fairly big and heavy cruiser for me and in a similar mould to the M4.

[Jordan210]

giger said:

Yes but you cannot get PCP on the M2 yet. What you have found is system generated figures on the generic BMW finance calculator. If you buy a car they will inform you that they are not valid yet for the M2. I bought one, I was told no finance figures yet at this stage. What you have found is for illustration only and can't be relied upon.

It gives you a rough APR and idea thoughts is for the M2,

Congrats on your purchase