RE: BMW M2: Review
Discussion
Ares said:
Guvernator said:
Seeing as everyone seems to be at it, I'm wondering if there is some noise legislation due to come in that we are unaware of which might necessitate a need for the noise generators. It certainly seems to be an area of focus for a lot of manufacturers now.
See my comment about the US above!chrispmartha said:
Guvernator said:
Dan Trent on this very site did the mod on the M4 long termer and stated in no uncertain terms that it was much improved when turned off. I've heard an M4 with and without the mod, I'm not an audiophile or claim I have super sensitive hearing either but I certainly heard a difference. With the noise system on it sounds fake to me, plain and simple.
Maybe you and the people on the track day need hearing tests? That's as much my prerogative to claim as you stating that people who can hear a difference are basically lying or talking rubbish.
Unless you or Dan did the sound test double blind then it's a pointless test, if you knew when you were in a carvwith it on or off your judgment is totally skewed.Maybe you and the people on the track day need hearing tests? That's as much my prerogative to claim as you stating that people who can hear a difference are basically lying or talking rubbish.
Fwiw the M135i ive got sounds pretty good from the cabin, I didn't know it had noise pumped in until a month or so after i got it.
HighwayStar said:
Ares said:
Guvernator said:
Seeing as everyone seems to be at it, I'm wondering if there is some noise legislation due to come in that we are unaware of which might necessitate a need for the noise generators. It certainly seems to be an area of focus for a lot of manufacturers now.
See my comment about the US above!
kambites said:
Ares said:
Perhaps Bimmerpost contributors are more in the know than BMW themselves?
They might be more honest. 
IMO the M4's engine sounds pretty rubbish from outside so I think I'd be slightly disappointed if I couldn't tell the difference made by the artificial sound system.
chrispmartha said:
Unless you or Dan did the sound test double blind then it's a pointless test, if you knew when you were in a carvwith it on or off your judgment is totally skewed.
Fwiw the M135i ive got sounds pretty good from the cabin, I didn't know it had noise pumped in until a month or so after i got it.
While this is absolutely true (its amazing how many people don't understand the wider nature of the placebo effect), I have driven an M135i and didn't really like the sound of it. It sounded quite contrived to me, almost as if it had been tuned to sound like a nice car noise, rather than that just being the noise it made (does that make any sense at all?). At the time I assumed it was the pumped in engine noise, but as you've mentioned, I would need a double-blind test to be 100% sure.Fwiw the M135i ive got sounds pretty good from the cabin, I didn't know it had noise pumped in until a month or so after i got it.
I have an M4 and I have unplugged the active sound module (in fact it was me that suggested Dan try this). You absolutely can tell the difference (you can hear the exhaust!). IMHO it is better without it. Last time the car went to the dealers the buggers plugged it back in again and it was very obvious.
NDNDNDND said:
Pommygranite said:
What do you drive?
Nothing you'd approve of. None of them are remotely valuable, two of them have no power-steering and none have bluetooth.Why not just say, seriously?
This is a car forum, you've made a point of something so what's the big deal? Unless what you have doesn't match your point.
Edited by Pommygranite on Monday 22 February 23:57
kambites said:
They might be more honest.
IMO the M4's engine sounds pretty rubbish from outside so I think I'd be slightly disappointed if I couldn't tell the difference made by the artificial sound system.
I love it from the outside, especially on track. Its got a real motorsport bark to it.IMO the M4's engine sounds pretty rubbish from outside so I think I'd be slightly disappointed if I couldn't tell the difference made by the artificial sound system.
Ares said:
I love it from the outside, especially on track. Its got a real motorsport bark to it.
On this I have to agree with you, it does sound pretty good from the outside, not as good as the previous V8 when on song but certainly decent enough. In fact my 335i which the new engine is loosely based on sounded very good for a modern turbo engine both in an out the car so really not sure why they bothered with the fake noise maker at all.Guvernator said:
Ares said:
I love it from the outside, especially on track. Its got a real motorsport bark to it.
On this I have to agree with you, it does sound pretty good from the outside, not as good as the previous V8 when on song but certainly decent enough. In fact my 335i which the new engine is loosely based on sounded very good for a modern turbo engine both in an out the car so really not sure why they bothered with the fake noise maker at all.Ares said:
I was always disappointed by the V8 M3. Maybe too much expectation after a generation of AMGs and RSs, but it was too muted and not deep enough.
It really needs an exhaust upgrade to make it properly sing but I found the V8 with an Akrapovic back box at 8krpm to be a life affirming experience.981C said:
Pommygranite said:
On the weight issue and the fact it's 'heavy':
BMW M2 kerb weight: 1495 kg
Ford Focus RS 2016: 1575kg
Mercedes A45: 1555kg
Audi S1: 1415kg
Audi RS3: 1525kg
VW Golf R: 1435kg
Porsche Cayman S: 1350kg
and you're mixing DIN and EU weights...BMW M2 kerb weight: 1495 kg
Ford Focus RS 2016: 1575kg
Mercedes A45: 1555kg
Audi S1: 1415kg
Audi RS3: 1525kg
VW Golf R: 1435kg
Porsche Cayman S: 1350kg
Pommygranite said:
Well these are the manufacturer published kerb weights...
Yeah, there's no consistency. The M2's biggest issue for me is not its absolute weight, but the fact it's almost exactly the same as the much larger and better appointed M4. If it dynamically better though, then that's a plus.Active Sound is an abomination...
981C said:
Pommygranite said:
Well these are the manufacturer published kerb weights...
Yeah, there's no consistency. The M2's biggest issue for me is not its absolute weight, but the fact it's almost exactly the same as the much larger and better appointed M4. If it dynamically better though, then that's a plus.Active Sound is an abomination...
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
Pommygranite said:
I think that's extremely valid regards the M4 comparison.
I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
You can pull the fuse, unplug the module (M3/4/5/6, at least) or code it out.I really like the M2 and for me weight ultimately doesn't matter for this type of car given what it is and comparison to its peers it's absolutely fine. We need to keep perspective to what it actually is in its market. It's not an Elise/4C so why fret.
Also the E30 M3 was also always regarded as really not that quick, even in its heyday. EVO go and rate it and everyone's jerking off over it. No one mentions the near 7 seconds 0-60 time.
We now have a sub 4 seconds, near affordable and capable everyday car with 4 seconds that will in the vast majority of cases just plug he motorways and everyone's losing their mind.
If you are criticising the weight I actually think you don't understand it.
Active Sound isn't actually very loveable is it but I am thinking it can be turned off (can't it?)
It's how it feels that's more important. The M4 feels more heavy than it actually is and despite the fact it's extremely fast, it's dynamics on anything other than perfect tarmac destroys some of the enjoyment. If this car delivers 8/10ths of the performance, but has a better chassis, then it's a clear win.
Can't wait for the M3/4 CP (sans wheels) and the M Performance Coilovers.
Ares said:
I love it from the outside, especially on track. Its got a real motorsport bark to it.
Fair enough, it sounds utterly awful to me - there's no definition to the exhaust pulses, it sounds someone has taken a recording of a car engine and played through a set of £5 internally amplified computer speakers; I actually prefer some diesels and indeed BMW's own lesser (four cylinder) engines. There's something about turbocharged inline sixes which just don't work for me. They're nearly as bad as unequal length header flat-fours.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 23 February 13:55
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