RE: BMW M2: Review
Discussion
Ordered mine in October 15 and am still awaiting a firm delivery date
Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
rtz62 said:
" It not only questions the needs to buy an M4, but also how much more you would realistically need from a performance car. "
Having not sat in either, could it be that you might consider an M4 over this as you have rear seat passengers that are teens-sized or bigger that do not want to contort themselves into weird origami-aping shapes to fit in the back?
I can only surmise about the amount of space as I remeber sitting in the rear of a previous-model M3 with a 'me' sized driver in front of me, and thinking how little leg and knee room there was, and how the cranium-roof interface when the driver was pressing on became a bit of a nuisance. And I'm 6'00" tall.
It might be nice to see how passenger-friendly some of the PH-featured cars are in future with regards to ability to swallow normal sized human beans, simply by adding a couple of images of said persons occupying the rear seats; of course I realise that many, if not most of the buyers of these will drive them either one or two up, and will no doubt have a second vehicle for family-hauling purposes.
And I really must stop using hyphens so much....
Point noted, I didn't actually consider that. I'd like to think we'll do something M2 v. M4 related so it can be discussed then!Having not sat in either, could it be that you might consider an M4 over this as you have rear seat passengers that are teens-sized or bigger that do not want to contort themselves into weird origami-aping shapes to fit in the back?
I can only surmise about the amount of space as I remeber sitting in the rear of a previous-model M3 with a 'me' sized driver in front of me, and thinking how little leg and knee room there was, and how the cranium-roof interface when the driver was pressing on became a bit of a nuisance. And I'm 6'00" tall.
It might be nice to see how passenger-friendly some of the PH-featured cars are in future with regards to ability to swallow normal sized human beans, simply by adding a couple of images of said persons occupying the rear seats; of course I realise that many, if not most of the buyers of these will drive them either one or two up, and will no doubt have a second vehicle for family-hauling purposes.
And I really must stop using hyphens so much....
Matt
RicM5 said:
Ordered mine in October 15 and am still awaiting a firm delivery date
Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
I'm deeply envious, you'll absolutely love it. Enjoy!Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
NDNDNDND said:
Interestingly, the M2 'manual' rev-matches on both downshifts and UPshifts...
Just read this on road & track:
"When you turn off automatic rev matching on the manual M2, you lose electronic stability control. If you order an M2 and have a brain, you want the standard manual transmission. If you cannot drive a stick smoothly and refuse to learn a new skill, the M2 will automatically rev-match shifts for you. It automatically blips the throttle or adjusts engine speed for smooth operation on both upshifts and downshifts.
"This isn't a system per se, more a software function made possible by the advent of electronic throttles. Nor is it new; a similar function was first sold in America on the Nissan 370Z. Most carmakers who sell this kind of thing let you disengage it independent of a car's other systems. BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
"Which means that, if you like manual transmissions because they're entertaining, and if you find them entertaining in part because they represent a developed skill, well, you don't get to exercise that skill unless you drive around all the time without an electronic safety net mandated on all new cars by the government and specifically designed to keep you from backing the car into a ditch. A system that is currently so well-developed and permissive that most road drivers are better off with it on—enthusiasts included.
"A few journalists were moaning that the feature was a quiet attempt to undermine the manual transmission in the American market. Americans have a history of ordering their BMW performance cars with manuals despite the availability of competent automatics and despite the chagrin of the engineers designing the cars. (In Germany, where performance metrics reign, manuals are seen as anachronism. Recall the E60-chassis M5, a model that initially wasn't going to be offered with a clutch pedal. Enthusiasts griped, and at the last minute, a six-speed manual was developed and certified for our market. A fact that still sets the Bavarians to grumbling.) The whole thing, they say, is a scam to fade the skill base and, in the long run, kill the technology.
"The hyperbolic Internet headline for this is BMW WANTS TO KILL THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION—OR YOU. (Wait a few weeks after this story runs and Google those words. Someone will hit on them. All it takes is time.) That's gibberish, of course. But this is stupid, and a software update away from being right. Someone should fix it."
Couldn't put it better myself.
Anyone know if this thing fakes its engine sound too? No mention in the article, but it was a touch sycophantic...
It does sound like an awesome car - albeit one undermined by some corporate/marketing stupidity.
Fair point, it is a daft idea and there should be a function to disable it without forgoing the ESC as well. One for the aftermarket perhaps? Rather like the VW group DSG that will always automatically upshift or kickdown. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.Just read this on road & track:
"When you turn off automatic rev matching on the manual M2, you lose electronic stability control. If you order an M2 and have a brain, you want the standard manual transmission. If you cannot drive a stick smoothly and refuse to learn a new skill, the M2 will automatically rev-match shifts for you. It automatically blips the throttle or adjusts engine speed for smooth operation on both upshifts and downshifts.
"This isn't a system per se, more a software function made possible by the advent of electronic throttles. Nor is it new; a similar function was first sold in America on the Nissan 370Z. Most carmakers who sell this kind of thing let you disengage it independent of a car's other systems. BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
"Which means that, if you like manual transmissions because they're entertaining, and if you find them entertaining in part because they represent a developed skill, well, you don't get to exercise that skill unless you drive around all the time without an electronic safety net mandated on all new cars by the government and specifically designed to keep you from backing the car into a ditch. A system that is currently so well-developed and permissive that most road drivers are better off with it on—enthusiasts included.
"A few journalists were moaning that the feature was a quiet attempt to undermine the manual transmission in the American market. Americans have a history of ordering their BMW performance cars with manuals despite the availability of competent automatics and despite the chagrin of the engineers designing the cars. (In Germany, where performance metrics reign, manuals are seen as anachronism. Recall the E60-chassis M5, a model that initially wasn't going to be offered with a clutch pedal. Enthusiasts griped, and at the last minute, a six-speed manual was developed and certified for our market. A fact that still sets the Bavarians to grumbling.) The whole thing, they say, is a scam to fade the skill base and, in the long run, kill the technology.
"The hyperbolic Internet headline for this is BMW WANTS TO KILL THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION—OR YOU. (Wait a few weeks after this story runs and Google those words. Someone will hit on them. All it takes is time.) That's gibberish, of course. But this is stupid, and a software update away from being right. Someone should fix it."
Couldn't put it better myself.
Anyone know if this thing fakes its engine sound too? No mention in the article, but it was a touch sycophantic...
It does sound like an awesome car - albeit one undermined by some corporate/marketing stupidity.
Sycophantic wasn't the aim with the story, it's simply a very good car. Let's see how it fares in the UK.
Cheers,
Matt
RicM5 said:
Ordered mine in October 15 and am still awaiting a firm delivery date
Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
Enjoy! I suspect, despite the comments, it will be a BMW we all look back fondly on. Can't wait to get my hands on one for a drive as the M235i was a really fun car to drive. Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
Dominic TVRetto said:
...1 review, 4 pages of comments, and still no mention of the "smokey burnout" function... 
I know, apologies 
We only had the DCT cars on track and then manuals on road so there wasn't really ample opportunity to try. Which is a terrible excuse. We WILL do it in the UK!
Good to hear that it's mightily impressive and I'm looking forward to seeing them on the road as they are especially delicious from the rear.
I can't see them ultimately appreciating in value however as they're not having a limited production run and therefore everyone who wants one can have one at list price.
I can't see them ultimately appreciating in value however as they're not having a limited production run and therefore everyone who wants one can have one at list price.
giger said:
I think the residuals will be strong for a long time. My local dealer is now quoting a 2 year lead time for anyone who hasn't ordered yet. Whilst this isn't a ltd ed model, the annual production is limited. I ordered mine yesterday and I have a 13 month wait.
I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
Production will be limited to whatever BMW want it to be. If the demand is there they will find a way to build more, let the order book fill up and ramp up production. I'd be surprised if your wait time doesn't decrease.I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
The M2 isn't limited in numbers so don't see why the residuals will be strong for a long time. Manufacturing delays (the last thing BMW want) are the only thing that will lead to a very long lead time on this car which could then effect residuals in the short term.
You ordered your yesterday (congrats!) and the lead time has now gone from 13 months to 24? Sounds like salesmans pitter patter to me.
Anyway - congrats on ordering what looks like a fabulous car!
kambites said:
I've not seen anyone say it's not functional?
ETA: I've studied fluid mechanics enough to suspect that it does the job fine but one thing about automotive aerodynamic detailing is that at the sort of speeds a car is likely to reach, especially on the road, there's almost always a myriad ways to achieve results which are aerodynamically good enough.
Yep, I'm pretty sure this is just way over-styled to make it look as aggressive as the market demands. Not my cup of tea at all, but probably fixeable with a bit of spannering. Think we had this before, but below is a M235i Racing -- I believe the track car will have a design that is by nature more "form follows function" than what we see on the M2.ETA: I've studied fluid mechanics enough to suspect that it does the job fine but one thing about automotive aerodynamic detailing is that at the sort of speeds a car is likely to reach, especially on the road, there's almost always a myriad ways to achieve results which are aerodynamically good enough.
Anyway, sounds like a good one. To those with one on order: lucky barstewards! May you enjoy it at least as much as I hate that bumper
.
.Sounds like a class act.
Does anybody think that the weight being 1,495kg is a bit of a giveaway that BMW is leaving some room for an M2 CSL? Now that would be something...
Carbon roof, bigger intake, semi-stripped insides, cup-2 tyres and lightweight wheels that sits around ~1,400kg? Perhaps (and this would be nice) electric power for torque-fill combined with a bigger turbo that comes on boost at a higher RPM - with a 8k redline? OK, I am going to stop now.
Does anybody think that the weight being 1,495kg is a bit of a giveaway that BMW is leaving some room for an M2 CSL? Now that would be something...
Carbon roof, bigger intake, semi-stripped insides, cup-2 tyres and lightweight wheels that sits around ~1,400kg? Perhaps (and this would be nice) electric power for torque-fill combined with a bigger turbo that comes on boost at a higher RPM - with a 8k redline? OK, I am going to stop now.
Edited by oliver1oo6 on Friday 19th February 02:16
I like it and think it looks and sounds pretty awesome. However, rev matching on the manual sounds a bit gash!
My only issue is 10k more than a M235i and only an extra 44bhp and it's also 50% more expensive than the other car of the minute, the Focus RS. Yes, RWD and a 6-pot appeals a bit more but 15k more?
I think that I actually prefer the look and greater simplicity of the 1M, although scratch that, I just looked at 1M prices and they are more expensive than a new M2, so the M2 is obviously a bargain!
My only issue is 10k more than a M235i and only an extra 44bhp and it's also 50% more expensive than the other car of the minute, the Focus RS. Yes, RWD and a 6-pot appeals a bit more but 15k more?
I think that I actually prefer the look and greater simplicity of the 1M, although scratch that, I just looked at 1M prices and they are more expensive than a new M2, so the M2 is obviously a bargain!
msport123 said:
giger said:
I think the residuals will be strong for a long time. My local dealer is now quoting a 2 year lead time for anyone who hasn't ordered yet. Whilst this isn't a ltd ed model, the annual production is limited. I ordered mine yesterday and I have a 13 month wait.
I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
Production will be limited to whatever BMW want it to be. If the demand is there they will find a way to build more, let the order book fill up and ramp up production. I'd be surprised if your wait time doesn't decrease.I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
The M2 isn't limited in numbers so don't see why the residuals will be strong for a long time. Manufacturing delays (the last thing BMW want) are the only thing that will lead to a very long lead time on this car which could then effect residuals in the short term.
You ordered your yesterday (congrats!) and the lead time has now gone from 13 months to 24? Sounds like salesmans pitter patter to me.
Anyway - congrats on ordering what looks like a fabulous car!
It looks great and I will be ordering one when I get near the end of my M135i deal.
Shame it only comes with black interior and 4 exterior colour choices, none of which are particularly exciting so might have to get it wrapped.
The skinny tyres concern me though, you can't option 18" wheels and I don't think it will take long to break one of those expensive looking alloys on UK potholes.
Shame it only comes with black interior and 4 exterior colour choices, none of which are particularly exciting so might have to get it wrapped.
The skinny tyres concern me though, you can't option 18" wheels and I don't think it will take long to break one of those expensive looking alloys on UK potholes.
Edited by P4GNO on Friday 19th February 09:21
kfest policy.It'll be fascinating to see how BMW play the supply game. As I understand it this architecturally is far more similar to the normal 2-series than the 1M was to the normal mk1 1-series so I doubt they have any particular limits on the number they could produce if they wanted to? I also suspect this will have the largest profit margins of the 2-series range. That would imply that the current "waiting list" is an artificially engineered thing for marketing reasons. How long they'll see fit to keep it that way could mean residual values do anything from rising to being little different than a 220d.
One thing that seems clear to me from the review is that an awful lot of the sales this takes will be cannibalised from the M4, and that in itself might be a reason to keep numbers limited.
One thing that seems clear to me from the review is that an awful lot of the sales this takes will be cannibalised from the M4, and that in itself might be a reason to keep numbers limited.
RicM5 said:
Ordered mine in October 15 and am still awaiting a firm delivery date
Can't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
a flipper's investment AND a warranty. hmmmCan't bloody wait!!!!! A rear drive 2 door coupe that goes like stink and has sublime handling.......
I'm really concerned about that front styling "NOT"
Wouldn't mind betting as expensive as some people perceive it to be it also ends up a good investment due to supply and demand ........... Watch prices go north of list!!!!
And a 3 year throw it at BMW warranty
I'm starting to laugh again-----
msport123 said:
giger said:
I think the residuals will be strong for a long time. My local dealer is now quoting a 2 year lead time for anyone who hasn't ordered yet. Whilst this isn't a ltd ed model, the annual production is limited. I ordered mine yesterday and I have a 13 month wait.
I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
Production will be limited to whatever BMW want it to be. If the demand is there they will find a way to build more, let the order book fill up and ramp up production. I'd be surprised if your wait time doesn't decrease.I reckon it will be many years before supply outstrips demand.
PCP will be available but the dealers aren't quoting any finance figures just yet (as the car is not actually available yet).
The M2 isn't limited in numbers so don't see why the residuals will be strong for a long time.
OP said:
Best of all, and very much unlike the 1 M, there will be as many M2s built as customers want
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